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10-17-2012, 03:35 PM | #3901 |
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you're piecing together the kit? or using that kit with stock size pistons?
will it still be a 2.6L or are you looking at like a 2.55L? from what i know about strokers, and forgive me because im not a pro motor builder, but i've had 3 strokers in my cars over the years, the diameter has to increase as well...it's designed like that.
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10-17-2012, 03:44 PM | #3902 | |
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Hes actually raising it a bit the WRX's make "more power" on the dyno because of the gear that they run them in. just FYI. Gearing has a large affect on load and the STi has a much greater load in 4th than your car in 3rd hence lower numbers. Phil isn't going external gate so on a turbo the same size with a lower flowing TMIC instead of a Fmic i cant see why he would make more than you did anyway...... however phils tune has always been real conservative (c'mon we all know how he drives) With a slightly more aggressive tune with the stroker im sure he will be happy. We shall see.... |
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10-17-2012, 03:48 PM | #3903 | |
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instead of a 2.607 its a 2.591 up from 2.457 the point is a built motor with billet crank with a bit more displacement for the fun of it |
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10-17-2012, 03:52 PM | #3904 |
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by what math? because i think you're slightly off.
.5mm is not much, its roughly .0196". it is a decent amount, and every little bit counts. but why not build for the future, go to 100mm and sleeve the block? prevent future possible failures. you said yourself, we know how phil drives. |
10-17-2012, 03:55 PM | #3905 | |
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The stock sleeves can do 400 whp for a long time if the motor is taken care of and i KNOW phil takes care of his motor LOL |
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10-17-2012, 04:11 PM | #3906 | |
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10-17-2012, 04:23 PM | #3907 | ||
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however, 400whp for a long time is nothing, there are WRX guys running 400whp on a stock block. if you wanted 400whp and no headaches throw a 1.5XT-R and E85 on it and you'd be there in a flash. but you're building a motor with the intention of never going above 400whp. thats only like 450 crank, that seems reckless actually. phil takes great care of his stuff, there is NO doubting that. however, building for the bare minimum when youre building a motor for a guy that drives his car hard is negligent IMO. if yoiu want 400whp, you build a motor that can handle 650+. also ask darryl how stock internals do even on stgII tune. sometimes luck plays into it. i wouldn't trust the sleeves as far as i could throw them. especially if i have the opprotunity when it's gonna be apart anyway to throw sleeves in there for an extra 1k and NEVER EVER have to worry about my motor breaking. sorry, but IMO with a built motor you always always always overbuild. scraping by doesn't work. you still didn't answer my question about the math and what pistons are you gonna use, the rods are different, as far as i know there is also clearancing involved with a stroker kit pistons, because the rods are longer. |
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10-17-2012, 04:30 PM | #3908 |
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his motor will be a 2.5815L. so yea, call it 2.6L i guess. with 100mm pistons it'd be a 2.6075.
its .026L difference you can check my math if you want http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_engine_...splacement.php |
10-17-2012, 04:44 PM | #3909 | |||
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The dom 1.5Xtr is not my favorite turbo so i wouldn't really use that on anything. Ive had stock motors @400whp for 150K miles. He was running meth. and the cylinder walls actually went out of round and the motor was still fine. I also have 530 whp cars on C16 on stock motors that are still happy after 5 years (stock motor) I suppose you'd call andy's build reckless? along with every other non sleeved upgraded rod/piston setup out there? Since they far outweigh the ones that are sleeved by like 100:1. you dont just "throw" sleeves in ive seem more sleeves fail than be successful so if i can avoid them i will. Sleeves aren't really needed until over 500whp NO turbo worth driving on the street will make 400-450 on pump gas anyway. Anything that can prevent detonation like meth/E85 will go a long way to keeping a motor happy. However if you don't have any of that building for a safe goal and being happy with the response / torque from a stroker/ stockish turbo is the smart thing to do. Quote:
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10-17-2012, 04:47 PM | #3910 |
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Typically the rods are the same, crank is longer and they move the wrist pin up a bit
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10-17-2012, 04:55 PM | #3911 |
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10-17-2012, 05:00 PM | #3912 |
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10-17-2012, 05:11 PM | #3913 | |
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10-17-2012, 05:12 PM | #3914 | ||
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Stock motor is 2.4571L BC Stroker is 2.6075L Phil's is 2.5815L inches and MM and CC and liters make numbers different than what they may seem. but i've double and triple checked now. andy's build is a different scenario. he didn't do two things you guys are doing. he didn't build a stroker. he also didn't take a stroker kit, and bastardize it. (excuse my bluntness, but thats what you're doing). he didn't cut corners on his build. he also wasn't building his motor for 400whp, he was building for basically a stock plus. just seems like you're cutting corners instead of doing the build how it was intended, theres a reason Brian Crower's name is so well known in the engine world, and his parts usually have a **** load of engineering behind them. wasn't saying to use a dom, but on a stock STi you could throw a turbo on, with meth, supporting mods and 91 and be at 400whp all day long. and as you said you've had tons over 400whp for 150k+. which begs the question why is phil doing a rebuild...? he's probably close to 330whp right now, bigger turbo, etc and he's right there. if 400whp is the goal then he didn't need a new motor unless something was wrong with his motor. also i disagree about your assertion that no turbo worth driving on pump on the street would make more than 400whp-450whp. there are a few out there with meth that are still driveable. we in south county are very close to having e85 in a few more stations. what's the reasoning behind no headwork? or cams? i mean you're not gonna really take advantage of the extra umph that the stroker will give you without headwork? not even a valve job and new high revving hardware? Quote:
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10-17-2012, 05:43 PM | #3915 | ||||
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400whp is the safe goal the motor can take much more than that. BC cranks are 83mm vs 79mm. the ROD IS THE SAME length as stock and the pistons wrist pins are moved up to accommodate for the stroke. Quote:
Phil wants a built motor. Its that simple. There is nothing wrong with his motor now he just wants to have a built one instead. In fact his shortblock will be for sale after this is done since we are using all new cases and components. Again you keep quoting power levels with meth or e85 or whatever. PHIL wants a PUMP GAS car that is built strong enough for a smaller upgraded turbo and PUMP GAS. Unless he tells me other wise that is what i build him. If he chooses to go with meth or some other fuel/octane booster we can revisit it then. There is no corner cutting, its a built motor with NEW (99.5mm) cases. hence the smaller bore. there are no tolerances out of spec there are no measurement issues. Brand new bearings (properly sized/clearanced) Brand new rings (gaps set properly) Brand new JE pistons, brand new rods, crank, oil and water pumps, gaskets etc etc. Block honed for proper piston/wall....yadda yadda |
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10-17-2012, 06:23 PM | #3916 |
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10-17-2012, 06:28 PM | #3917 |
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does anyone happen to have stock STI rear top hats? if so.. I need them!
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10-17-2012, 06:51 PM | #3918 |
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2.6L for 400whp, I say go for it.
Rock a green though! Phil I thought you were getting robis engine? Last edited by breaksOFTEN; 10-17-2012 at 07:01 PM. |
10-17-2012, 07:40 PM | #3919 |
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Hey Garlin where you at fcc campus today? I thought I saw you but didnt stop to see if it was b.c. i was walking with someone to class
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10-17-2012, 07:47 PM | #3920 | |
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10-17-2012, 07:53 PM | #3921 | |
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10-17-2012, 08:28 PM | #3922 | |
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10-17-2012, 09:11 PM | #3923 |
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Phil drives slow. So........
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10-17-2012, 09:14 PM | #3924 |
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Where's the meet tonight?
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10-17-2012, 10:04 PM | #3925 | |
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