Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 17, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-06-2018, 09:50 AM   #301
mrp669
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 416220
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2006 Wrx
Black

Default

I have a Precision Turbo pt1001 with opposed 3inch in out with speed density and a Dom 1.5xtr. The intercooler temp doesn't budge except during parked heat soak, that takes about 5 mins of driving to bring back down near ambient. I have two Slimline 11 inch fans on the he. 2005.5 obxt and the size 100 (24x12x1)frozen boost radiator blocked proper air flow to condenser and radiator. My tune had to be way enriched I believe due to the low air restriction(low pressure drop) of the intercooler. I custom built 2 gal reservoir to replace the washer fluid bottle. I am currently running a jabsco 12v pump wide open all the time.

I will be switching to the bmw/mercedes bosch pump with a pwm controller from sfr racing. I believe running a pump at 100% induces pump heat into the coolant, I'm guessing about a 2*f rise from it. I have my pump directly before the ic, after my res and he, so the he can't remove that heat until after it has passed thru the ic.

My other plan is to remove my he and go with a dedicated a/c water cooler like the killer chiller or interchiller type systems to keep my iat 20-30*f BELOW ambient!

I will update again when done with current upgrade plans.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by mrp669; 06-06-2018 at 09:55 AM.
mrp669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-06-2018, 10:15 AM   #302
Voodoo Rufus
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151528
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Vehicle:
2015 STI Launch Edn.
WRB!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrp669 View Post

I will be switching to the bmw/mercedes bosch pump with a pwm controller from sfr racing. I believe running a pump at 100% induces pump heat into the coolant, I'm guessing about a 2*f rise from it. I have my pump directly before the ic, after my res and he, so the he can't remove that heat until after it has passed thru the ic.
I doubt the pump is adding much heat to the water. If you measured the water temp before/after the pump I bet it would be hard to differentiate.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your alterations.
Voodoo Rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 10:17 AM   #303
mrp669
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 416220
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2006 Wrx
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Rufus View Post
I doubt the pump is adding much heat to the water. If you measured the water temp before/after the pump I bet it would be hard to differentiate.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your alterations.

I've definitely seen studies where the more powerful the pump(like lingenfelters wp29) the more likely it is to boil the coolant at the impeller
mrp669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 10:24 AM   #304
Voodoo Rufus
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151528
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Vehicle:
2015 STI Launch Edn.
WRB!

Default

That would be impressive and scary at the same time. That's a 400W nominal pump, or a little more than 1/2HP. To boil the fluid, the incoming water would already have to be hot. That pump has a really nice pressure-flowrate curve, though.
Voodoo Rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 10:38 AM   #305
mrp669
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 416220
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2006 Wrx
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Rufus View Post
That would be impressive and scary at the same time. That's a 400W nominal pump, or a little more than 1/2HP. To boil the fluid, the incoming water would already have to be hot. That pump has a really nice pressure-flowrate curve, though.
Coolant boiling temp increases with psi while it lessens in a vacuum. If the pump is serious enough it can cavitate or cold boil the coolant under extreme suction. http://penray.com/cooling-system-techfacts/cavitation-in-cooling-sytems/
Cavitation adds froth to the coolant which reduces it's ability to remove heat.
mrp669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 10:58 AM   #306
Westyman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 486866
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Normal AWIC Temps

Ive got a 04 forester 2.5xt engine in a VW vanagon (rear mounted engine)
I used a Frozenboost AWIC intercooler, bosch cobra pump, and then a heat exchanger mounted in a vent. Getting good airflow in the back of a van is hard. Ive also got a 7" fan on the heat exchanger that kicks on when air temps "after" the IC hit 110F.

Long story short, I am seeing air temps after the AWIC about 30 above ambient and even higher when pulling a mountain pass or something. (Van weighs almost 6,000lbs)

The highest temps Ive seen are like 145F.
At what temps should I be concerned?

Note I'm running stock boost, stock turbo, so the AWIC should be kinda overkill.
Westyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 11:16 AM   #307
mrp669
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 416220
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2006 Wrx
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westyman View Post
Ive got a 04 forester 2.5xt engine in a VW vanagon (rear mounted engine)
I used a Frozenboost AWIC intercooler, bosch cobra pump, and then a heat exchanger mounted in a vent. Getting good airflow in the back of a van is hard. Ive also got a 7" fan on the heat exchanger that kicks on when air temps "after" the IC hit 110F.

Long story short, I am seeing air temps after the AWIC about 30 above ambient and even higher when pulling a mountain pass or something. (Van weighs almost 6,000lbs)

The highest temps Ive seen are like 145F.
At what temps should I be concerned?

Note I'm running stock boost, stock turbo, so the AWIC should be kinda overkill.
I would add a reservoir after your heat exchanger and activate the fan at about 5*f over ambient. Are you running all 3/4 inch line to match the pump? Your temps are not horrible, could definitely be better! but I would talk to your tuner about your highest iat reading. My iat stays rock steady about 5*f over ambient at 14lbs boost even on 130mph runs...
mrp669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 12:43 PM   #308
Westyman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 486866
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrp669 View Post
I would add a reservoir after your heat exchanger and activate the fan at about 5*f over ambient. Are you running all 3/4 inch line to match the pump? Your temps are not horrible, could definitely be better! but I would talk to your tuner about your highest iat reading. My iat stays rock steady about 5*f over ambient at 14lbs boost even on 130mph runs...
Thanks for the response,
I do have a coolant reservoir. I dropped the hose down to 5/8" heater hose from the 3/4". I just ordered some scoops to help duct air into the vent where the heat exchanger is located. Im thinking that will help significantly.
Westyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2018, 06:06 PM   #309
adosdrummer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 348773
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: South Houston
Vehicle:
06 LGT and Mr-s
White

Default

I built a a2w system on my lgt a few years back.. I used frozenboost's type 16 core. I was tired of blowing end tanks so since I had all the parts lying about I fabbed it up. Transient boost felt like a buddys ported td04 with a mbc with my vf52. It was instant.

I picked up a good bit on the top end by holding boost longer. And being able to lean the afr's to right around 11.9 and added 3 degrees of timing. I was seeing about 3.6grev mid range at 19psi.

supporting mods
perrin elh
ewg
grimspeed inlet pipe
dp
stock intake with resonator removed
tgv delete.

Now a friend of mine has bought most of my parts. He has a perrin top mount right now but in a month or so we will be swapping my a2w setup on to his car. So that will be a cool comparison between the perrin vs the type 16.
adosdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2018, 12:57 AM   #310
91 RS RA
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 457410
Join Date: Oct 2016
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Vehicle:
1991 Legacy RS RA
White

Default

I love A2W intercoolers, next turbo car will have an air to water.
Yes it adds a bit of complexity and a bit more weight, but the cooling performance and better response due to short distance between turbo and intake definitely make up of any of the downsides.
91 RS RA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 12:17 AM   #311
panel
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 352704
Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Victoria , B.C. Canada
Vehicle:
1965 Vw panel van
EJ20 Turbo Swap/convo

Default

Do you have to run an external tank for the AWIC? Can the AWIC itself be the tank ? I see mostly trunk tanks for ice etc but for a street car is it necessary ?
panel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 06:09 AM   #312
pcampbell
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 437670
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VT
Vehicle:
2005 2.5 SC OB

Default

Ice with big tank is mainly for a drag car. They can get the intake temps below ambient with large tank with ice or ice water. For a street car a small reservoir is ok. You want at least a small reservoir probably. I dont know if its work having none unless perhaps you AW radiator has a fill cap that is easily accessible. Mine does not , it only has side and bottom fittings. My reservoir is tiny , like 16oz although more is probably better.
pcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 11:32 AM   #313
Voodoo Rufus
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151528
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Vehicle:
2015 STI Launch Edn.
WRB!

Default

The only reason to have a large tank is to slow down the rate of water temp rise if you don't have enough heat exchanger capacity to dissipate the heat. Trunk tanks get the reservoir away from engine bay heat, but that's not likely a huge issue for track use once the car is moving and has airflow.
Voodoo Rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 11:09 PM   #314
panel
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 352704
Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Victoria , B.C. Canada
Vehicle:
1965 Vw panel van
EJ20 Turbo Swap/convo

Default

Is there many air to air intercoolers being used as a donor to convert over to water to air? For example..... lets say a TMIC , and boxing it in and running your inlet/outlets on the sides or fronts etc ?
panel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 11:23 PM   #315
Voodoo Rufus
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151528
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Vehicle:
2015 STI Launch Edn.
WRB!

Default

Yes, but you don't want to do that. An air to air is designed for high air flow rates for the charge air and cooling air, which means larger spacing for fins and plates to lessen the pressure drop. For forcing water through those large gaps you will not have as efficient of a heat transfer. The water side of a good AWIC will tend to have tighter spacing and designed for water as the heat transfer medium, while the charge air side will see a similar flow regime as an air to air intercooler.
Voodoo Rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 07:00 AM   #316
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 in the garage
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Yeah, if you compare the fin sides of the water side to the air side, you'll notice the water side is notably smaller/tighter.

Water transfers about 5x that of air.

I know there had been guys trying the home converted route on tmic YEARS back.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 03:59 AM   #317
Bluedragon87
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 486231
Join Date: May 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adosdrummer View Post
I built a a2w system on my lgt a few years back.. I used frozenboost's type 16 core.
[...]
Now a friend of mine has bought most of my parts. He has a perrin top mount right now but in a month or so we will be swapping my a2w setup on to his car. So that will be a cool comparison between the perrin vs the type 16.
Hey there!
Is there an update regarding this direct comparison available?
I'm fighting with myself to realise a AWIC setup...

Regards from Germany!
Bluedragon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 11:44 AM   #318
pcampbell
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 437670
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VT
Vehicle:
2005 2.5 SC OB

Default

Will a type 14 fit easily???? They say the type 13 is good for "350hp". My SC output is 2.75", the TB is 2.75" roughly and the AWIC is 2.5", I imagine this is less than ideal? I'm sure I'm > 350hp too.

Can anyone tell me what silicone adapter to use between a type 14 and TB (assuming all TB's are the same OD?). I have a type 13 and it's tiny. I'd love to go type 14, but It doesn't seem like it should fit??? Is there any trick or will it just plop in there? I think a 3" to 2.75" should do it?

Here is my type 13:

Last edited by pcampbell; 04-21-2019 at 08:02 AM.
pcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2019, 03:27 PM   #319
Bluedragon87
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 486231
Join Date: May 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcampbell View Post
Will a type 14 fit easily???? They say the type 13 is good for "350hp". My SC output is 2.75", the TB is 2.75" roughly and the AWIC is 2.5", I imagine this is less than ideal? I'm sure I'm > 350hp too.

Here is my type 13:
I can't answer your questions. Butmay a Type 19 (http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/long-flow-style-water-to-air-intercooler-p-219.html) fit in your application!? Or even a Type 26?
Bluedragon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 06:41 PM   #320
pcampbell
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 437670
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VT
Vehicle:
2005 2.5 SC OB

Default The air/water intercooler thead

I was hoping for a bend IO because the TB is effectively holding up the AWIC. My current one has no mounting brackets, just the pipes and silicone.
pcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 11:20 AM   #321
dokalanyi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 471478
Join Date: Jul 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krang View Post
Update on mine now that it's complete.



What are all the hoses coming from the tank?
I know 1 goes to the pump, the other returns from the heat exchanger. What are the other 2?
dokalanyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 10:06 PM   #322
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 in the garage
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dokalanyi View Post
What are all the hoses coming from the tank?
I know 1 goes to the pump, the other returns from the heat exchanger. What are the other 2?
Maybe drainline and vent?
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 01:13 PM   #323
smoky
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 221439
Join Date: Aug 2009
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Quebec, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Blue

Default

smoky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What the heck is this on his intake manifold? air/water intercooler?? STR8OUT Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 19 03-25-2003 12:27 PM
STi air-water intercooler?? kotaro Legacy Forum 22 12-19-2002 01:51 PM
Air/Water intercooler install, any suggestions? BlueDemon South East Region Forum 3 08-25-2002 09:39 PM
Air/Water intercooler? FuZZyLoGiC Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 4 06-29-2002 11:45 PM
Interesting Air/Water intercooler thought Legacy GTR Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 9 02-13-2002 11:53 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.