I Think My Car Hates Me...

02CWRX · 04-27-2009, 05:15 AM

So, I bought my 02 WRX back in November knowing it had a "problematic" transmission. I figured I would be ok because I didnt plan on driving it hard since I knew of the problem, and it was just going to be a DD to replace my VW Golf. That didnt work out. Driving gently into a Safeway parking lot with a soft downshift into 2nd, it went out. I had to sell my CBR, which I now miss like crazy since its sunny out, to pay for the new transmission. I now have a nice little setup with an 07 STi transmission swapped in.

Well, tonight while going to get dinner, I started getting a nasty knocking noise while on light throttle at about 2,000 RPMs (cruise) that varies in intensity with RPM. Its not present at idle (that I could hear over the engine), and not while in boost. Strange since all the rod knocks Ive been familiar with are present basically anytime the engine is running, haha. I went ahead and started heading home figuring there wasnt much saving it if it was a rod, and got a CEL for the cam sensor. Im 98% sure this is a mechanical failure and not just the cam sensor, lol. My best guess is something I read in a search about the cam timing not changing due to bearing debris in the oil, something about a valve. Who knows, its late and Ive been reading posts from so many areas on this forum that it might not have even been for this car. Ive thought about the timing tensioner, but it sounds too centralized on the motor for it to be under the timing cover.

First the damn transmission, now possibly the engine, which have problems with ring lands and spinning bearings. What do people see in these cars!? Ive got 96,XXX on the original motor with a Cobb stage 2 flash. Invidia EL header, TBE, SPT intake, STI intercooler, silicone hoses, etc. I dont have the money for this, and Im rather annoyed at this point. I had planned on a turbo upgrade in the future, but this is a ridiculous way of going about it.

What do WRXs with blown engines and STi transmissions go for? Before I was trying to sell it with a running engine and a blown transmission, haha.

Anyway, Im not sure the point of this post really, other than to vent I guess. Im just pretty bummed about the whole deal.

~T.J.

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mnm3_8 · 04-27-2009, 05:19 AM

I feel your pain........I went through 3 five speeds before the dealer said no more and I had to spend mucho dinero to bump up to the 6mt. I've never had any engine probs yet though. GL with it.

mnm3_8 · 04-27-2009, 05:26 AM

Do an oil change and inspect the oil in the light. Cut the ends off your oil filter and inspect the filter media. If it's a mechanical failure, you're almost guaranteed to find metal flakes/chunks. It'll usually be sparkly flecks suspended in the oil. I've never heard a rod that doesn't knock at idle also, not that it isn't possible, just improbable. Did you clear the cam sensor code and try again? Does it make a diff if it's under load or sitting in neutral?

02CWRX · 04-27-2009, 12:43 PM

Oh, I've been through all this, I'm a mechanic. Thanks for the tips though! Its rod knock for sure.

I drained the oil and it looked amazingly decent, so I pulled the timing cover thinking it might have skipped and started piston to valve music, but that wasn't it. I went ahead and cut the filter open, and there it was, my rod bearing. Oh well.

~T.J.

Rei_Akira · 04-27-2009, 12:48 PM

sorry to hear that man, i havnt heard much about the rod bearings goin out on the 02's, but lots of the EJ20K's eat their bearings....hopefully its just swappin bearings and doing a good cleaning and you'll be good to go again....

JasonLHall · 04-27-2009, 12:55 PM

The only issues I have had with my 02 have been self inflicted. I would suspect the previous owner did a lot of spirited runs.

jma_1000 · 04-27-2009, 01:04 PM

man, that sucks. after reading your post, i wouldnt be interested in doing a motor swap either. it can be discouraging, for sure. i guess you could always part it out, if you cant find a buyer for the whole thing.

greenshoes3 · 04-27-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnm3_8

I feel your pain........I went through 3 five speeds before the dealer said no more and I had to spend mucho dinero to bump up to the 6mt. I've never had any engine probs yet though. GL with it.

It sounds like you are doing something wrong.....

SubaruGenki · 04-27-2009, 02:10 PM

Want to buy a cheap shortblock?

lancelucas · 04-27-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02CWRX

Oh, I've been through all this, I'm a mechanic. Thanks for the tips though! Its rod knock for sure.

I drained the oil and it looked amazingly decent, so I pulled the timing cover thinking it might have skipped and started piston to valve music, but that wasn't it. I went ahead and cut the filter open, and there it was, my rod bearing. Oh well.

~T.J.

EJ-series rod bearing failures are usually from det/knock, oil starvation or severe viscosity shear. Did you measure how much oil you recovered to know if it had run low or not?

mnm3_8 · 04-27-2009, 08:05 PM

Crappy!!! Sorry to hear about this, man.

mnm3_8 · 04-27-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenshoes3

It sounds like you are doing something wrong.....

Yes, it's been a long and painful process to retrain myself. SOA should offer a 12 step program for recovering hard shifters, lol.

selvar05WRX · 04-27-2009, 09:50 PM

i have a nice built long block that you could buy.

02CWRX · 04-27-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubaruGenki

Want to buy a cheap shortblock?

Yes. I will PM you. Is it in good shape?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancelucas

EJ-series rod bearing failures are usually from det/knock, oil starvation or severe viscosity shear. Did you measure how much oil you recovered to know if it had run low or not?

It was full, its still in the pan. I have a Cobb stage 2 map (91 octane), wideband O2, boost, and oil PSI. All looked good until failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by selvar05WRX

i have a nice built long block that you could buy.

Im interested. Sending PM. Also, is it in good shape?

~T.J.

02CWRX · 04-27-2009, 11:49 PM

The plot thickens!

Ok, I went out looking for a used WRX with low mileage because I knew of the transmission problems. I bought this one which was advertised at 87,XXX miles. Higher than my alternative at 70,XXX, but I liked this one better for various reasons.

Anyway, today I have discovered what I think is evidence of a cluster swap, or odometer roll back. The service records indicate "service in" mileages of over 110,000, but then suddenly 87,XXX. The CarFax didnt show any rollbacks, however, a close look shows that the mileage when I bought the car was supposedly only 1,000 miles higher than when the PO bought the car. He said he just didnt drive it much. He had multiple cars, and this one was CLEAN. Detailed, professioal photos for the sales ad, etc. I figured he really just didnt drive it much, and it was a "weekend toy". Technically could this not be title fraud since he signed the papers stating that it was the actual mileage of the vehicle?

Does anyone know if I have any leverage against them since Ive only had it 4 months? I emailed the DOL about it, since it says "its up to you to keep the vehicle or not" and something about if the seller wont take it back, you can pursue legal options. I know its kind of a dumb thing to sue someone over or whatever, but honestly, I went looking for a low mileage car, paid more for a low mileage car, traded my old car to him as part of the deal, etc only to find out it was all a fraud? Im a little pissed right now to say the least. Guess that explains the engine AND the transmission. It was probably abused hard...

~T.J.

JamesBernard · 04-28-2009, 12:48 AM

swap a 5mt back in it, get your money back and get a different one =]
sorry you got screwed, but now you're in control

02CWRX · 04-28-2009, 02:33 AM

Problem is, I do like the car and want to ultimately keep it.

Im thinking just getting the engine paid for at this point to "settle" the problem. I did a little more research on it, and I think I can build a pretty damn good case they knew of it when they sold it. My girlfriends aunt is a lawyer who I will be consulting with. I found three RCWs that specifically deal with this.

I think Im going to write a letter with the lawyer and send it certified mail, and Im going to give the option of either returning the car I traded plus the money I paid for the WRX AND the cost of the transmission I put in (due to the high mileage), or pay for the motor replacement.

Its just ****ty. It was advertised on CL as "low mileage" even (have the ad still). I bought it with 87,XXX and it really had closer to 116,XXX at that point. Thats almost a 3 year difference of driving and wear and tear.

~T.J.

SubaruGenki · 04-28-2009, 02:53 AM

Returned your PM.

02CWRX · 04-28-2009, 12:36 PM

Thanks I will consider it. I'm pursuing other options at this point. Will it be available for a while?

~T.J.

Doobie Scoo · 04-28-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02CWRX

Problem is, I do like the car and want to ultimately keep it.

Im thinking just getting the engine paid for at this point to "settle" the problem. I did a little more research on it, and I think I can build a pretty damn good case they knew of it when they sold it. My girlfriends aunt is a lawyer who I will be consulting with. I found three RCWs that specifically deal with this.

I think Im going to write a letter with the lawyer and send it certified mail, and Im going to give the option of either returning the car I traded plus the money I paid for the WRX AND the cost of the transmission I put in (due to the high mileage), or pay for the motor replacement.

Its just ****ty. It was advertised on CL as "low mileage" even (have the ad still). I bought it with 87,XXX and it really had closer to 116,XXX at that point. Thats almost a 3 year difference of driving and wear and tear.

~T.J.

I would think that the ECU also keeps track of the mileage, and that a dealership should be able to read it, I could be wrong though.

Gotta admit that is a pretty ingenious idea, Buy a car drive it for 2500 miles then swap the cluster out and don't put it back in until you are going to sell it.

OT: I never thought a 90k car was low mileage, to me low mileage is under 60k.

lancelucas · 04-28-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doobie Scoo

I would think that the ECU also keeps track of the mileage, and that a dealership should be able to read it, I could be wrong though.

It does not. Otherwise used ones would end up in the wrong cars and people could pull the same scam (instead of just buying a different cluster, buy the cluster and ECU). Now the scam is even more believable because the cluster and ECU are lying in unison

SubaruGenki · 04-28-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02CWRX

Thanks I will consider it. I'm pursuing other options at this point. Will it be available for a while?

~T.J.

Yeah it's been in my garage for a while. Had a few people interested before. I'll let you know if someone is seriously thinking about coming and getting it.

02CWRX · 04-28-2009, 03:02 PM

Well, when I started looking, I had found one with 63,000 on it that fell through, and another at 70,000. Most I was seeing were 110,000+ so the 80,000 or so this one supposedly had was fairly low in comparison. Oh well.

~T.J.

04-27-2009, 05:15 AM	#1
02CWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 196013 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC	I Think My Car Hates Me... So, I bought my 02 WRX back in November knowing it had a "problematic" transmission. I figured I would be ok because I didnt plan on driving it hard since I knew of the problem, and it was just going to be a DD to replace my VW Golf. That didnt work out. Driving gently into a Safeway parking lot with a soft downshift into 2nd, it went out. I had to sell my CBR, which I now miss like crazy since its sunny out, to pay for the new transmission. I now have a nice little setup with an 07 STi transmission swapped in. Well, tonight while going to get dinner, I started getting a nasty knocking noise while on light throttle at about 2,000 RPMs (cruise) that varies in intensity with RPM. Its not present at idle (that I could hear over the engine), and not while in boost. Strange since all the rod knocks Ive been familiar with are present basically anytime the engine is running, haha. I went ahead and started heading home figuring there wasnt much saving it if it was a rod, and got a CEL for the cam sensor. Im 98% sure this is a mechanical failure and not just the cam sensor, lol. My best guess is something I read in a search about the cam timing not changing due to bearing debris in the oil, something about a valve. Who knows, its late and Ive been reading posts from so many areas on this forum that it might not have even been for this car. Ive thought about the timing tensioner, but it sounds too centralized on the motor for it to be under the timing cover. First the damn transmission, now possibly the engine, which have problems with ring lands and spinning bearings. What do people see in these cars!? Ive got 96,XXX on the original motor with a Cobb stage 2 flash. Invidia EL header, TBE, SPT intake, STI intercooler, silicone hoses, etc. I dont have the money for this, and Im rather annoyed at this point. I had planned on a turbo upgrade in the future, but this is a ridiculous way of going about it. What do WRXs with blown engines and STi transmissions go for? Before I was trying to sell it with a running engine and a blown transmission, haha. Anyway, Im not sure the point of this post really, other than to vent I guess. Im just pretty bummed about the whole deal. ~T.J. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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04-27-2009, 05:19 AM	#2
mnm3_8 Scooby Newbie Member#: 86536 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: woodinville, wa Vehicle: 2004 wrx WRB	I feel your pain........I went through 3 five speeds before the dealer said no more and I had to spend mucho dinero to bump up to the 6mt. I've never had any engine probs yet though. GL with it.

04-27-2009, 05:26 AM	#3
mnm3_8 Scooby Newbie Member#: 86536 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: woodinville, wa Vehicle: 2004 wrx WRB	Do an oil change and inspect the oil in the light. Cut the ends off your oil filter and inspect the filter media. If it's a mechanical failure, you're almost guaranteed to find metal flakes/chunks. It'll usually be sparkly flecks suspended in the oil. I've never heard a rod that doesn't knock at idle also, not that it isn't possible, just improbable. Did you clear the cam sensor code and try again? Does it make a diff if it's under load or sitting in neutral?

04-27-2009, 12:43 PM	#4
02CWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 196013 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC	Oh, I've been through all this, I'm a mechanic. Thanks for the tips though! Its rod knock for sure. I drained the oil and it looked amazingly decent, so I pulled the timing cover thinking it might have skipped and started piston to valve music, but that wasn't it. I went ahead and cut the filter open, and there it was, my rod bearing. Oh well. ~T.J.

04-27-2009, 12:48 PM	#5
Rei_Akira Scooby Scammer- Do Not Buy From User Member#: 194555 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Idaho Vehicle: 1997 GC8 coup green	sorry to hear that man, i havnt heard much about the rod bearings goin out on the 02's, but lots of the EJ20K's eat their bearings....hopefully its just swappin bearings and doing a good cleaning and you'll be good to go again....

04-27-2009, 12:55 PM	#6
JasonLHall Scooby Guru Member#: 111318 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: NWIC	The only issues I have had with my 02 have been self inflicted. I would suspect the previous owner did a lot of spirited runs.

04-27-2009, 01:04 PM	#7
jma_1000 Scooby Specialist Member#: 151694 Join Date: Jun 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: shaddup	man, that sucks. after reading your post, i wouldnt be interested in doing a motor swap either. it can be discouraging, for sure. i guess you could always part it out, if you cant find a buyer for the whole thing.

04-27-2009, 02:10 PM	#9
SubaruGenki Scooby Specialist Member#: 65058 Join Date: Jun 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Frederickson, WA Vehicle: 02 Eagle Summit TSi	Want to buy a cheap shortblock?

04-27-2009, 08:05 PM	#11
mnm3_8 Scooby Newbie Member#: 86536 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: woodinville, wa Vehicle: 2004 wrx WRB	Crappy!!! Sorry to hear about this, man.

04-27-2009, 09:50 PM	#13
selvar05WRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 165524 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Bellevue Vehicle: 2012 CTS-V Sedan Black Diamond Tri-Coat	i have a nice built long block that you could buy.

04-27-2009, 11:49 PM	#15
02CWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 196013 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC	The plot thickens! Ok, I went out looking for a used WRX with low mileage because I knew of the transmission problems. I bought this one which was advertised at 87,XXX miles. Higher than my alternative at 70,XXX, but I liked this one better for various reasons. Anyway, today I have discovered what I think is evidence of a cluster swap, or odometer roll back. The service records indicate "service in" mileages of over 110,000, but then suddenly 87,XXX. The CarFax didnt show any rollbacks, however, a close look shows that the mileage when I bought the car was supposedly only 1,000 miles higher than when the PO bought the car. He said he just didnt drive it much. He had multiple cars, and this one was CLEAN. Detailed, professioal photos for the sales ad, etc. I figured he really just didnt drive it much, and it was a "weekend toy". Technically could this not be title fraud since he signed the papers stating that it was the actual mileage of the vehicle? Does anyone know if I have any leverage against them since Ive only had it 4 months? I emailed the DOL about it, since it says "its up to you to keep the vehicle or not" and something about if the seller wont take it back, you can pursue legal options. I know its kind of a dumb thing to sue someone over or whatever, but honestly, I went looking for a low mileage car, paid more for a low mileage car, traded my old car to him as part of the deal, etc only to find out it was all a fraud? Im a little pissed right now to say the least. Guess that explains the engine AND the transmission. It was probably abused hard... ~T.J.

04-28-2009, 12:48 AM	#16
JamesBernard Scooby Specialist Member#: 180038 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Tigard, OR Vehicle: IB You dont even own a subaru!	swap a 5mt back in it, get your money back and get a different one =] sorry you got screwed, but now you're in control

04-28-2009, 02:33 AM	#17
02CWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 196013 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC	Problem is, I do like the car and want to ultimately keep it. Im thinking just getting the engine paid for at this point to "settle" the problem. I did a little more research on it, and I think I can build a pretty damn good case they knew of it when they sold it. My girlfriends aunt is a lawyer who I will be consulting with. I found three RCWs that specifically deal with this. I think Im going to write a letter with the lawyer and send it certified mail, and Im going to give the option of either returning the car I traded plus the money I paid for the WRX AND the cost of the transmission I put in (due to the high mileage), or pay for the motor replacement. Its just ****ty. It was advertised on CL as "low mileage" even (have the ad still). I bought it with 87,XXX and it really had closer to 116,XXX at that point. Thats almost a 3 year difference of driving and wear and tear. ~T.J.

04-28-2009, 02:53 AM	#18
SubaruGenki Scooby Specialist Member#: 65058 Join Date: Jun 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Frederickson, WA Vehicle: 02 Eagle Summit TSi	Returned your PM.

04-28-2009, 12:36 PM	#19
02CWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 196013 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC	Thanks I will consider it. I'm pursuing other options at this point. Will it be available for a while? ~T.J.

04-28-2009, 03:02 PM	#23
02CWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 196013 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC	Well, when I started looking, I had found one with 63,000 on it that fell through, and another at 70,000. Most I was seeing were 110,000+ so the 80,000 or so this one supposedly had was fairly low in comparison. Oh well. ~T.J.