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Old 11-09-2017, 11:35 PM   #26
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I test drive a 2017 last week - dealer had 10-12 on lot and were selling them closer to MSRP even with rs2 package - lol - salesman said the batteries were dead on most of them sitting for 8-9 months
I ran into the same thing when i test drove one. The dealer tried to tell me they would let one go for "only" $3K over MSRP. I said i would never pay even MSRP for a Ford and then i started getting the "oh its so rare" speech and i just looked at the line of dusty cars on the lot and laughed.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:17 AM   #27
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:46 AM   #28
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Is that you Tommi Mäkinen?
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:56 AM   #29
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I don't understand why two of the guys in that article didn't lawyer up per the lemon law? I thought if the dealer has your vehicle for more than thirty days you can demand a buyback?

Here in Maryland a Ford dealer in White Marsh was willing to sell me a RS for a few bucks below MSRP (can't remember the number) and zero percent financing. The price was still way more than I paid for my 2018 STI. Again I can't remember that exact number they quoted but I do remember thinking that kinda number for a Mustang would be money better spent.

The interior is worse than the STI. And here I thought it couldn't get worse! haha.. plus I really wanted a trunk if I went with four doors. So the Golf R was fun to test drive and the Focus RS fun to look at? but..
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:49 AM   #30
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Default 2018 Ford Focus RS

There’s always the Fiesta ST

...And really, I’m not here to bash the car, but, since this is the last production run of this iteration… What does ford really need to fix?

Also, when I read articles like this about someone’s car blowing up… Maybe they drive like an *******.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:28 AM   #31
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There’s always the Fiesta ST

...And really, I’m not here to bash the car, but, since this is the last production run of this iteration… What does ford really need to fix?

Also, when I read articles like this about someone’s car blowing up… Maybe they drive like an *******.
The car is marketed to be driven like an *******

Any stock vehicle should not have any issues when driven hard.

It's obvious the best "track oriented" awd econobox is the sti. They take a full day of abuse at any track and come back for more

What does ford need to fix? How about all the broken cars. These revised head gaskets are nothing more than band-aids. Mark my word.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:51 PM   #32
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Default 2018 Ford Focus RS

I really wanted to like the focus rs - enjoyed the heated steering wheel. Build quality - doesn't feel as solid as Subaru. Subbarus just have a few rattles - my 2015 WRX is pretty good so far
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Old 11-12-2017, 06:09 PM   #33
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Build quality - doesn't feel as solid as Subaru.
Never rode in a newer ST/RS but if this is true, that's saying a lot
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:26 PM   #34
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I don't know what his experience with the Focus RS is, but that's certainly not what I have experienced. Granted the newest Subaru in my garage is a 2014 Forester XT...
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:41 AM   #35
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Yeah, the FoRS I've spent time in was decent with segment competitive cheapness. No better no worse, IMO. Also, the WRX is considerably newer than the Focus. So you gotta factor that. I'd say the Focus isn't any worse than my GTI in the build quality department. So, meh. Cheap speed.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:15 AM   #36
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I really wanted to like the focus rs - enjoyed the heated steering wheel. Build quality - doesn't feel as solid as Subaru. Subbarus just have a few rattles - my 2015 WRX is pretty good so far
The build quality of mine is better than my 2008 was. My RS has zero rattles.
The cabin control buttons are definitely base Focus-ish, but the seats, controls, and cabin are excellent, surprisingly so. Sync3 is excellent, heated seats and steering wheel. Panel gaps are tight. Nothing really to complain about.....yet.
Oh, like any Subaru I don't like the stock AFR and want to change it. All in due time.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:41 AM   #37
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http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/focus...ure-mechanism/

Quote:
Focus RS Head Gasket Failure Mechanism
Posted on October 5, 2017 by Stratified

A lot has been made of the Focus RS Ecoboost 2.3 head gasket failures. It seems to be an issue that has occurred in both modified and unmodified vehicles. I am not certain what percentage of vehicles are affected. However we have spent significant time looking at the mechanics of the failure and wanted to share this with our customers and community.

The Focus RS uses a multi layer steel (MLS) head gasket. This is a very capable method for sealing the block to head interface. This multilayer gasket is enhanced by an elastomer that further helps seal critical areas.



The Focus RS 2.3 Ecoboost engine block is an open deck design. This means that the cylinders are not attached to the outside of the block structure at the sealing surface of the head gasket. This space is filled with engine coolant.

The head and block are secured to each other using torque to yield bolts (which do not require re-torquing the head fasteners after the engine is heat cycled). In spite of this there is inevitable movement between the two sealing surfaces. The two types of movement are vertical movement (which is what causes head lift and a sudden gasket failure) as well as lateral movement. This lateral movement is of most interest in this situation. Minute lateral movement causes what is called gasket fretting/scrubbing. There are two mechanisms that cause this lateral movement:

Thermal deformation. As the engine is brought through a range of temperatures (within normal operation), the expansion and contraction of the head and block cause this lateral movement between the two interfaces. The movement caused by this is however low cycle, as the engine is warmed up and cooled down relatively few times compared to the next mechanism.
The most relevant mechanism for lateral movement is due to cylinder firing. When a cylinder fires, it applies pressure on the open deck cylinder structure. This in turn causes this minute movement between the two interfaces scrubbing them at a high rate.
The result of this scrubbing is material loss from the head gasket, block, or head. Over time, the seal between the block and head can fail. The area where it will fail first is the area with: the highest movement, the highest contact pressure, and the least sealing material available.

The area of highest lateral movement for the Focus RS is between the cylinders.



The area of highest contact pressure is around the cylinders (because this is where the combustion pressure is highest and needs the best seal). This is by design.



The area that will inevitably experience the highest wear rate will be between the cylinders. Manufacturing discrepancies, vehicle use, temperature fluctuations and other factors will influence whether a failure will occur on a vehicle and if so when.



There are two methods to reduce this scrubbing wear. One is to stiffen the block structure. When rebuilding an engine for example, using the closed deck 2.0 Ecoboost block is an attractive option. However, Ford could not use this block in production and I am certain there are good reasons for this; likely related to emissions certification.

The second method, and what is being implemented as a fix is to redesign the head gasket.

Below is an image of a failed Focus RS gasket. A few things to note:

There is a very high wear rate of the elastomer (black section) between the cylinders. This is where the gasket has failed. You can see that it is almost completely missing in these areas.
Notice how thin the sealing area is between the cylinder overall.
Looking carefully you will notice that the are two holes in gasket between the cylinders marked on the image below.



Now let’s have a look at the block. You can see there is a very smallcoolant hole on the exhaust side. This hole lines up with one of the holes in the failed head gasket. You can also see a trail of coolant marking on the block surface leading to the second hole. This shows there is no elastomer between the cylinders on the original head gasket.



Looking at the head, you can see that the first hole on the head gasket lines up with a coolant passage. The second hole, however does not line up with any coolant passage. Once again, the head shows that coolant was found in the area between the cylinders but this was a closed path. Overall the cylinder sealing area was very narrow and the head gasket failed after a number of miles.



When the car was brought to the dealer, it was repaired with the head gasket shown below. There are some very important changes in the area between the two cylinders on the updated gasket.

The second deadheaded hole is no longer present
The entire area between the cylinders is now coated in elastomer. This will increase the sealing surface area and better distribute the clamping force in this critical area. This will in turn reduce the fretting/scrubbing failure of the head gasket.



The latest gasket part number is G1FZ-6051-C and this is what dealers are replacing failed gaskets with on vehicles that experience this failure. I am not sure at what point the factory engines have received this latest gasket part number. The only indication I was given was that this part number was available to service centers sometime between 3/27/17 and 8/10/17. Again, this says nothing regarding when this change was made to vehicles coming out of the factory.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion around these head gasket failures and what is causing them. The symptoms of failure are:

Loss of coolant.
Misfires, especially on a cold start and rough running.
Coolant fouled/wet spark plugs.
If you experience these symptoms, take the car in to Ford for the fix. Otherwise, enjoy the RS! It is not the only car in history to experience difficulties with head to block sealing. High output, low emissions, small displacement engines like the RS are a challenge to engineer and can have some teething issues; but at the same time we can all agree that fun behind the wheel was certainly well engineered!
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:25 AM   #38
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Interesting.

Has the actual elastomer material been improved? I feel like removing one of the holes between the cylinders will just lengthen the time until the next failure, not really prevent it from happening... My pessimism and lack of trust in ford is wondering if this fix is just enough to get people past warranty.

I'm also wondering why there aren't any "connecting" points between the cylinder walls and the block. I know its open deck, but all 4 cylinders are completely "floating" and seems more likely to move due to pressure and heat cycles especially with an inline setup where heat is centralized. Looking at an EJ block, the cylinder walls have 3 connection points to the actual block despite being open deck and only 2 cylinders per side. I'm no engineer, but maybe the EB can use some connecting points on each cylinder wall to limit movement and help dissipate heat to the outer areas of the block.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:42 PM   #39
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Interesting.

Has the actual elastomer material been improved? I feel like removing one of the holes between the cylinders will just lengthen the time until the next failure, not really prevent it from happening... My pessimism and lack of trust in ford is wondering if this fix is just enough to get people past warranty.

I'm also wondering why there aren't any "connecting" points between the cylinder walls and the block. I know its open deck, but all 4 cylinders are completely "floating" and seems more likely to move due to pressure and heat cycles especially with an inline setup where heat is centralized. Looking at an EJ block, the cylinder walls have 3 connection points to the actual block despite being open deck and only 2 cylinders per side. I'm no engineer, but maybe the EB can use some connecting points on each cylinder wall to limit movement and help dissipate heat to the outer areas of the block.
Dude, this isn't some kludge fwd potato hatchback--it's a mini GTR.

Deck don't need no support...
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:53 PM   #40
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Dude, this isn't some kludge fwd potato hatchback--it's a mini GTR.

Deck don't need no support...
Oh right, I forgot
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:25 PM   #41
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:59 PM   #42
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Head gaskets on turbo EJ25s fail in a similar way despite the semi-closed deck design. Although, it usually take at least 80K and a few years before it happens (it took at least 8 years / 70K on mine).
But, when it happens on a DOHC EJ25, the entire engine has to come out while the I4 short block doesn't.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:13 PM   #43
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Rumor is a tsb/recall coming....
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:42 AM   #44
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Rumor is a tsb/recall coming....
Gonna little blue bottle it?
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:22 AM   #45
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Gonna little blue bottle it?
Nope. I don't expect to do anything to it for quite some time. It's pretty damn good stock and the GKN system in it, oh my. RWD on demand, just push the little button. Many/some got lost in Blocks, when the reality is RWD select-able AWD system. No blue bottles needed.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:25 AM   #46
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Is each gasket uniquely identified with that qr code or is it just the part number?

181,000 on the WRX and no head gasket issues yet. Of course in thirteen years maybe the whole thing's fused shut...
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #47
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Is each gasket uniquely identified with that qr code or is it just the part number?

181,000 on the WRX and no head gasket issues yet. Of course in thirteen years maybe the whole thing's fused shut...
part number, they are on revision C which has cleared it from being an issue. It's the HG and the machining of the head that is in question. It's completely random too. As we approach 18 months of it being on the road, it will get cleared up. Ford has it figured out, so now it's just the "campaign" and how they are going to address it. Bad, that there is a potential issue, good that it sussed out so quickly. Much better than +2, +3, +4 years, etc. Glad I didn't tune yet.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:50 PM   #48
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Nope. I don't expect to do anything to it for quite some time. It's pretty damn good stock and the GKN system in it, oh my. RWD on demand, just push the little button. Many/some got lost in Blocks, when the reality is RWD select-able AWD system. No blue bottles needed.
It's a Subaru joke.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:16 PM   #49
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It's a Subaru joke.
Well may be my turn to go through it this time.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:20 PM   #50
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