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Old 11-01-2019, 01:44 PM   #776
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Serious question; how long do you guys think it will be before Formula E overtakes Formula 1?
as long as there are gas burning engines involved....never.
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:14 PM   #777
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So with these complicated engines, and they want fairer racing, how do you manage a company making the engines for the teams, while also taking into account the budget cap?
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Old 11-01-2019, 05:21 PM   #778
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as long as there are gas burning engines involved....never.
Well, that's just plain wrong. The big manufacturers will eventually to shift to FE (my guess is Ferrari will be the last big manufacturer team clinging to the ICE) because that is where the future of their industry is going. They will shift more and more resources to that series until their return on an aging F1 is no longer worthwhile. Their interest and investment will cause FE to grow while simultaneously shrinking F1. Hell, entire teams drop out entirely at the first sign of fiscal trouble. You think they're going to stand their ground for gasoline engines? These are corporations. It's going to be about money and the future. Not nostalgia and the emotion of engine noise.

It's going to the Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. Some big manufacturers (read: money) are already there. Audi/Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan, Jaguar. It's only going to get bigger. Once it does and the technology is ready to replace F1 cars on the same big-boy circuits, F1 will be left as a historic series.

I feel pretty confident with between 5 years and never.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:29 PM   #779
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The drivers are really bitching about the COTA track surface.
The commentators say the track settled about 1 meter since it was built (2012)

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...ashes/4590982/

Formula 1 drivers have voiced concern that there is a risk of a run of crashes in the United States Grand Prix and potential for them getting hurt from "totally unacceptable" bumps on the Austin track.

The Austin circuit caused some major headaches for teams and drivers on Friday when a series of bumps caught them by surprise.

With several spins as a result of the undulating track surface, they have voiced fears that there could be consequences as the F1 weekend progresses.

Racing Point's Sergio Perez was very unhappy about the situation and said he was especially concerned for the race – when drivers risked being caught out when their tyres started degrading.


"It can be very painful," said the Mexican. "Someone can get hurt over these bumps and you have seen some drivers going off at very high speed, and it is due to the bumps.

"I think it is totally unacceptable."

He added: "I think today we are over the limit. We have seen some incidents due to the bumps and I think that is just not acceptable.

"In the race, and I hope not, but I expect to see some people crashing out when the deg starts to kick in. All of a sudden you get a bump in the wrong angle and go straight into the wall, so it is quite bad."

Track bumps caused Leclerc's throttle pedal issue
Red Bull's Max Verstappen said that he was mindful about driving off the normal race line in case hitting an unexpected bump hurt his back.

"You have to be careful," he said. "If you go a bit off-line and you want to outbrake someone, I'm always a little bit afraid to damage your back or whatever.

"It's something we have to look into of course. I don't mind bumps on a street circuit, it's part of it. But these bumps are quite severe.

"It's almost like a hump or a ramp in some places where the wheels are coming off the ground. That's of course not what you want. We'll have a look at it."

As well as the issues drivers were facing, Lance Stroll reckoned it was bad for the cars too.

"I think there are two or three big bumps that are really upsetting the car and it's not good for the engine either with big spikes in revs," he said.

"They've got to sort it out for next year, I don't think there's a solution for this year but going forward, there's two or three bumps they've got to remove.

"They're like speed bumps out there so it's too much. I think when you hit the rev limiter and get a bit of air it's a little bit much. It's more for the rallycross boys than for us."

Although the matter would almost certainly be brought up at Friday night's drivers' briefing, Perez did not believe a solution could be found to sort the matter.

"I am not an expert on that but I would expect there is not a lot you can do for tomorrow or Sunday," he said. "It is really bad."
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:22 PM   #780
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:43 PM   #781
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How did Stroll go faster in Q1 than Q2?
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:03 PM   #782
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Lewis better be careful he doesn't get torpedoed in the first corner.
This might be a good race for Max to win.
Can't see Ferrari doing anything. The car eats tires.
Maybe Stroll used the harder tires in Q2.
Wow! Williams are so far back you can't even see Kubicia on the chart. What an embarassment.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:50 PM   #783
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Quote:
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The drivers are really bitching about the COTA track surface.
The commentators say the track settled about 1 meter since it was built (2012)
Que a cota rep throwing shade at the Miami race.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:42 PM   #784
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2025?! You can owe me a beer on that one next time we cross paths.

The FE cars can't even do a full race distance or run on legit racetracks yet. Even 2030 is ambitious. Like I said, the technology will come along quicker than popularity and viewership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
as long as there are gas burning engines involved....never.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Well, that's just plain wrong. The big manufacturers will eventually to shift to FE (my guess is Ferrari will be the last big manufacturer team clinging to the ICE) because that is where the future of their industry is going. They will shift more and more resources to that series until their return on an aging F1 is no longer worthwhile. Their interest and investment will cause FE to grow while simultaneously shrinking F1. Hell, entire teams drop out entirely at the first sign of fiscal trouble. You think they're going to stand their ground for gasoline engines? These are corporations. It's going to be about money and the future. Not nostalgia and the emotion of engine noise.

It's going to the Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. Some big manufacturers (read: money) are already there. Audi/Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan, Jaguar. It's only going to get bigger. Once it does and the technology is ready to replace F1 cars on the same big-boy circuits, F1 will be left as a historic series.

I feel pretty confident with between 5 years and never.

Basically what you just said - exactly right. Porsche chose to not go into F1 because ICE is dying.

Renault will pull out of F1. There is no reason to stick around.

That will leave just 3 engine mfrs and Mercedes has already bought into FE.

The tech on Electronic Powertrains is moving way faster than you can think and I think 2025 is the cross over point.

The 2021 regs look like garbage already - and that's the death knell for F1 - which is why it needs to grab back the crown it's losing it's grip on and make FE become F1.
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:32 AM   #785
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as long as the F1 is using gas burning engines, the FE will not outperform the F1.
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:46 AM   #786
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COTA listen to the drivers:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/c...bumps/4591945/

The Circuit of the Americas is to close this winter for major work to address the bumps that Formula 1 drivers have complained about over the US Grand Prix weekend.

The undulations also caused problems for MotoGP riders when they visited the Texan venue in April.

Some surface grinding was undertaken at the track on Friday night, and more was planned for Saturday evening. However, the major work is to begin next month, with extensive excavations to remove pipes under the track.

“The guys worked all last night and tonight they’re doing it again in the pit out area,” COTA boss Bobby Epstein told Motorsport.com. “There’s a massive grinder coming. It’s not easy on our guys, because our staff work pretty hard for the weekend, and they already have a lot of hours. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a big burden.

“We’re actually closing the track for most of December and half of January to fix the problems. We did some of the repairs last year before MotoGP, so I wouldn’t say we’d have to do the whole thing.


“Certainly it will involve the entire back straight, the pit out and part of Turn One, there’s a part of a hump before Turn Nine, Turns 18-19. So it’s pretty extensive. I know what the bill is!”

Epstein explained that the problems can be traced to heavy rain, and specifically to damage around pipes caused four years ago, and which has caused the ground to settle in places.

“We excavated nine feet deep to put the track here, and brought in special soils. However clearly the flood of 2015 caused some very serious heaving, and we haven’t fixed those areas since then, and it’s just gotten worse.

“There’s been some washout around pipes. There are pipes under the track, and in 2015 the water followed those pipes, not just inside but around them. It caused erosion that left this void, and then you get some heaving and shrinking.

“We know it’s a problem and it’s scheduled for a big repair. Those pipes are coming out. But we didn’t think it was going to affect the F1 cars like this.”
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:59 AM   #787
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as long as the F1 is using gas burning engines, the FE will not outperform the F1.
Correct - but in 2025 (or whenever the next set of engine regs go into effect ) is when it's over.

Ferrari will be the lone one standing.

FCA (no longer Ferrari parent) will become a leader in Electric and likely make an entry 2 years from now.

All the major OEMs will need to be in FE for them to realize the R&D necessary for it to bleed down to their vehicles a decade from being introduced.

Make FE into what was F1 - the pinnacle of automotive engineering and racing.
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #788
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Originally Posted by parker View Post
Que a cota rep throwing shade at the Miami race.
shade?

How about **** yeah bury them in the deepest darkest cavern with no light ever. This isn't ****ing autocross. This is F1.

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...-brand-america

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"The selling point behind Miami was not the track, it was the [original] backdrop," Epstein told ESPN. "They said we want to be in global destinations with iconic backdrops. It does seem very off brand of them to have a parking-lot race.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:25 PM   #789
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Basically what you just said - exactly right. Porsche chose to not go into F1 because ICE is dying.

Renault will pull out of F1. There is no reason to stick around.

That will leave just 3 engine mfrs and Mercedes has already bought into FE.

The tech on Electronic Powertrains is moving way faster than you can think and I think 2025 is the cross over point.

The 2021 regs look like garbage already - and that's the death knell for F1 - which is why it needs to grab back the crown it's losing it's grip on and make FE become F1.
Totally agree that Renault should cut their losses in F1. The only way they're going to be champions is if they end up like Toyota in WEC, looking around the starting grid like



I wonder how deep they are into 2021 prep. Not that it matters. Like I said, manufacturers pull the plug on entire teams at the drop of a board vote. An underperforming team consuming exponentially more resources in a sport with a (relatively) short-term future is easily axed.

And yep, Merc has already started their FE transition. Anyone who thinks they joined as a new series to run side-by-side with F1 is kidding themselves. Ferrari will be the last to see the writing on the wall because "history/nostalgia/gasoline". Still waiting on Honda to make a move. Odd to see Nissan as the only Japanese manufacturer team in there rather than Honda or Toyota. They're going to have to do something soon because LMP1 is dead and WRC is global yet niche and mostly irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
as long as the F1 is using gas burning engines, the FE will not outperform the F1.
I don't know what this means. "Outperform" = one lap pace? attendance/viewers? financially? Technologically, the cars will eventually be direct replacements for F1 cars in terms of one lap pace, race distance and top speeds. That's simply inevitable.
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:54 PM   #790
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Ferrari getting their butts handed to them. Can't get their tires to work.
Vettel out.
Leclerc: another sloppy pit stop again.
Is Lewis trying another 1 stopper again?
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:57 PM   #791
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Yes - but he wont be able to make it work. He will lose tyres. BOT is 2s faster than him
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Old 11-03-2019, 03:02 PM   #792
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All that SUV manufacturing know-how helping MB in this race, what with all the bumps. Ferrari back in "classic form" today. At least there's the McLaren/Renault battle for best of the rest.
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Old 11-03-2019, 04:55 PM   #793
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Pos Driver Team Laps Gap
1 Bottas Mercedes 56 1h 33:55.653
2 Hamilton Mercedes 56 + 0:04.148
3 Verstappen Red Bull 56 + 0:05.002
4 Leclerc Ferrari 56 + 0:52.239
5 Albon Red Bull 56 + 1:18.038
6 Ricciardo Renault 56 + 1:30.366
7 Norris McLaren 56 + 1:30.764
8 Sainz McLaren 55 + 1 Lap
9 Hulkenberg Renault 55 + 1 Lap
10 Perez Racing Point 55 + 1 Lap
11 Raikkonen Alfa Romeo 55 + 1 Lap
12 Kvyat Toro Rosso 55 + 1 Lap
13 Stroll Racing Point 55 + 1 Lap
14 Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 55 + 1 Lap
15 Grosjean Haas 55 + 1 Lap
16 Gasly Toro Rosso 54 + 2 Laps
17 Russell Williams 54 + 2 Laps
18 Magnussen Haas 52 + 4 Laps
Kubica Williams 31 Retired
Vettel Ferrari 7 Suspension

Ferrari 52 sec off the pace.
Lewis claims that the Ferrari loss engine power.
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:21 PM   #794
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From title challenger to 5th in the championship, where did it all go wrong, Seb?
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:03 PM   #795
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I told ya he's toxic to the team. Ferrari should cut him - make a play for Bottas and go for broke.

Bottas in the Ferrari will be something. And he will be a great mentoring driver to Leclerc.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:08 AM   #796
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I wouldn't say he's "toxic" and nor could he really do much of anything about Mercedes' domination the past 6 years. But he should be up there fighting at the very top. He's made far too many silly mistakes for them to be isolated incidents. He's become inconsistent and it wasn't such a big deal with Kimi was so far off the pace that it didn't matter. But now that LEC is knocking on the #1 driver door, VET is going to have a harder time justifying his place and salary. I don't want to say next year's a "throw away" but 2021 will be yuuuge.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:34 AM   #797
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Yeah - I'm stating that this was pretty much known going into this season - and it's telling that VET just DGAF.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:52 PM   #798
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Looks like the Hulk is out of F1 in 2020.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/g...g-dtm/4592873/

I also read somewhere that F1 is not interested in having a parking lot race in Miami.
So that Miami GP is pretty much dead.
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Old 11-04-2019, 04:21 PM   #799
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Eh, Hulk's lucky he made it this long considering he holds the record for race starts without a podium. He's had quite a decent midfield career. Time for fresh blood.

And **** that Miami bull****.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:19 PM   #800
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The course laid out for the GP in New York Jersey was better than anything you could possibly do in Miami.
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