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Old 04-25-2012, 01:38 PM   #1076
MRF582
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Oh, I didn't mean to say that as if your car hadn't seen track time yet. Just that less than 1% of modified Subarus actually see track time and since it's your car, it will probably continue to see track time.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:50 PM   #1077
glhs377
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shek, i really don't have time right now to do drawings and walk you through this. every textbook example of a macstrut has the strut incliniation and axis very nearly in line with the LBJ. this used to be how it was implemented, back in the 80s when those books were written. that's still how you calculate the instant center, and find the roll center, but the offset changes how it works as a system.

i know how to caclulate geometry, milliken&milliken is one of my toilet reading books. but you're incorrect with the strut inclination being what sets camber gain. and also off base where it matters. and also off base trying to change the roll center with the strut top. fabricated LCAs will be great if only for taking the LBJ out of the knuckle and dropping it an inch or two into the arm. something i think all the subarus should have. anyway, the strut inclination thing is not bad or catastrophic.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:11 PM   #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhs377 View Post
shek, i really don't have time right now to do drawings and walk you through this. every textbook example of a macstrut has the strut incliniation and axis very nearly in line with the LBJ. this used to be how it was implemented, back in the 80s when those books were written. that's still how you calculate the instant center, and find the roll center, but the offset changes how it works as a system.

i know how to caclulate geometry, milliken&milliken is one of my toilet reading books. but you're incorrect with the strut inclination being what sets camber gain. and also off base where it matters. and also off base trying to change the roll center with the strut top. fabricated LCAs will be great if only for taking the LBJ out of the knuckle and dropping it an inch or two into the arm. something i think all the subarus should have. anyway, the strut inclination thing is not bad or catastrophic.
Yes, and the fact that the strut axis lines up with the steering axis in those diagrams is just a coincidence. If you actually bothered to read those textbooks carefully you would know that. The steering axis is defined as an imaginary line that runs through the top strut mount and the lower ball joint. The strut axis is a line that runs coaxially with the strut's piston.

And for the 3rd ****ing time. The strut axis and the steering axis are two entirely separate things. You use the strut axis to calculate the instantaneous center not the steering axis.

In the case of the BRZ, the strut axis and the steering axis do not line up.

I refuse to have any further discussion with you until you realize the glaring difference between the two. Please go read your book on the ****ter.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:43 PM   #1079
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Via CraigsList...

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Old 04-25-2012, 03:58 PM   #1080
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So I changed the oil/filter yesterday on the WRX. Mobil 1 10w-40. Oil pressure at 3500 RPM at 190F went from 80 to 95psi. LOL. Guess 5,000 miles on old oil will do that.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #1081
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:02 PM   #1082
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Via CraigsList...

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Old 04-25-2012, 04:28 PM   #1083
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Have any of you brainiacs in here ever thought about doing something useful with your time? Like building one of these:


Last edited by saabarupp; 04-25-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:50 PM   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post

Blue is the BRZ front strut angle. Do not like! Damn near perpendicular for an even ****tier camber gain than an Impreza which is already quite terrible.
homeboy, you started this. and you stated it with the misnomer that strut inclination has something to do with camber gain. that is all.

also i'm glad you changed your oil.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:17 PM   #1085
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Jason, do you recognize the difference between a strut axis and a steering axis?
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:51 PM   #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagedefeat
Show me a really good one with similar mods.
Dale...what the heck man? I am not ragging on the graph. Barely looked at it. I support you guys every chance I get. I typed pretty good cause in my world pretty good is....pretty good lol!


Bee gone....sad banana.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:52 PM   #1087
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abhishek, you do realize that from that pic you can not determine anything about the pickup points of the LCA, which has an everything more to do with camber gain than the angle between the axial positioning of the strut vs anything else. i'll draw you pictures, in due time, or draw them yourself. basically, if the steering axis vs the LCA angle is acute, you're gaining camber in compression. strut axis, does not matter when your'e talking about camber gain. if you want to go jibba jabba bout roll center height and instant center, then by all means, use the strut axis as a reference.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:13 PM   #1088
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Went to a good home.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:07 AM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious Bee
Went to a good home.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:51 AM   #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious Bee
Went to a good home.
That's a bummer. The last two cars I sold were hard to let go of. I still miss my blue wagon.

Vern, as you know better than many of us, there will be other cars.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:32 AM   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhs377 View Post
shek, i really don't have time right now to do drawings and walk you through this. every textbook example of a macstrut has the strut incliniation and axis very nearly in line with the LBJ. this used to be how it was implemented, back in the 80s when those books were written. that's still how you calculate the instant center, and find the roll center, but the offset changes how it works as a system.

i know how to caclulate geometry, milliken&milliken is one of my toilet reading books. but you're incorrect with the strut inclination being what sets camber gain. and also off base where it matters. and also off base trying to change the roll center with the strut top. fabricated LCAs will be great if only for taking the LBJ out of the knuckle and dropping it an inch or two into the arm. something i think all the subarus should have. anyway, the strut inclination thing is not bad or catastrophic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glhs377 View Post
abhishek, you do realize that from that pic you can not determine anything about the pickup points of the LCA, which has an everything more to do with camber gain than the angle between the axial positioning of the strut vs anything else. i'll draw you pictures, in due time, or draw them yourself. basically, if the steering axis vs the LCA angle is acute, you're gaining camber in compression. strut axis, does not matter when your'e talking about camber gain. if you want to go jibba jabba bout roll center height and instant center, then by all means, use the strut axis as a reference.
Please re-read the parts in bold. First you say I'm off-base trying to change the roll center by moving the strut tops in and slanting the strut axis more but then later say I can use the strut axis as a reference to 'jibba jabba' about roll center?

I do believe those two statements are in direct contradiction of one another.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:41 AM   #1092
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Walked in the kitchen and looked out back where I kept it, looked at the empty spot and immediately started imagining what I will park there. Cost no object it would be a blue GC I know of chilling on the north side.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:03 PM   #1093
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How stupid you trying to play us.

Cost no object, and you are getting a subaru?

I remember when I was 22 and haggling for the first car I was buying without parental assistance. It was a Dodge Stratus coupe, and they were asking $14k for it and I was goign back and forth with the guy and he gives me the "It's only $30/month difference" for the price that I was offering him. He says to me "Look, if price were no object, is this the car that you would want or not, because, it's only $30/month." I completely was unable to stop myself from laughing.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:06 PM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious Bee

Dale...what the heck man? I am not ragging on the graph. Barely looked at it. I support you guys every chance I get. I typed pretty good cause in my world pretty good is....pretty good lol!

Bee gone....sad banana.
sorry! i read too much into what you posted. Thanks for the support, Vern.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinden View Post
How stupid you trying to play us.

Cost no object, and you are getting a subaru?

I remember when I was 22 and haggling for the first car I was buying without parental assistance. It was a Dodge Stratus coupe, and they were asking $14k for it and I was goign back and forth with the guy and he gives me the "It's only $30/month difference" for the price that I was offering him. He says to me "Look, if price were no object, is this the car that you would want or not, because, it's only $30/month." I completely was unable to stop myself from laughing.

Yeah. I guess I was thinking along the terms of reality. With all of the stuff I have to do the house and Ty starting school I can't see me spending too much on a toy. Dan's car is something that I could obtain. If I hit the lottery or something 911 turbo s please.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #1096
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Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
sorry! i read too much into what you posted. Thanks for the support, Vern.

No apologies needed. With the atmosphere around here I don't blame you for having your guard up. The intelligencia is waiting to pounce
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:21 PM   #1097
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Used 911's really aren't that badly priced if bought from private owner. I personally want to bank a little for a C6 grand sport or Z06

Harley is first
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #1098
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997s are really affordable and great cars, interior is just horrible like a C5 and they look all donkey on the outside too.



and shek, at least i know where you think i made a mistake.

i can restate that for you as:

..and also barking up the wrong tree trying to change the roll center with the strut top.

now stop ignoring the rest of it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #1099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhs377 View Post
997s are really affordable and great cars, interior is just horrible like a C5 and they look all donkey on the outside too.



and shek, at least i know where you think i made a mistake.

i can restate that for you as:

..and also barking up the wrong tree trying to change the roll center with the strut top.

now stop ignoring the rest of it.
This is absolutely appalling. Are you still unable to grasp how moving the strut tops inboard improves the roll center? That's OK, Vindler didn't understand this either. Must've gone to Pitt.

There's no point in talking about camber gain and other concepts if you can't even come to terms with the first part.


http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-suspe...-analysis.html
Read THIS! Maybe you won't believe me but you will believe someone else. Unfortunately the pictures don't work but the guy thankfully captioned them in text.
Quote:
Here's how the camber curve changes with camber plates moving your strut mounting point one inch inward (maxed out for most products):


Notice there's quite a bit more dynamic camber when doing this! The roll center height goes up a bit, but not much.
So an improvement in dynamic camber AND roll center by moving the strut tops inwards.

Jason, there is no way you have had this SO wrong. You have got to be trolling. Actually, I really hope you're trolling.

Last edited by MRF582; 04-26-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:59 PM   #1100
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