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Old 06-07-2019, 06:04 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Mercedes-AMG Unveils Most Powerful 4 Pot Engine




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The world’s most powerful 2.0-litre, four-cylinder series production engine has been revealed by Mercedes-AMG, set to feature in its upcoming ‘45’ model range.

Developing 415bhp in its most potent ‘S’ form, this completely new 2.0 turbo replaces the engine used in the previous A45 A-Class, CLA 45 and GLA 45.

Despite the potency of the outgoing A45 355/376bhp AMG four, engine development boss Ralf Illenberger says that emission requirements, the desire for more power, less weight and the different packaging requirements of Mercedes’ latest generation of compact cars necessitated a complete redesign. “The only carry-over parts are a few nuts and bolts,” he added. The new M139 engine produces 382bhp in standard form and 415bhp in ‘S’ guise, and 354lb ft or 369lb ft of torque.

Another major aim has been extracting a sportier driving experience from the engine by altering its torque delivery. While the previous, M133 four-cylinder engine’s torque curve resembled a diesel’s, rising steeply to level off across a wide chunk of the rev range, the new M139 2.0 produces more of a crescendo of thrust.
AMG pops its hot hatchback cherry in singular, inimitable fashion, but do less expensive rivals like the Honda Civic Type R and Golf R deliver greater thrills?

The aim is to produce the rising rush of acceleration characteristic of a revvy, normally aspirated engine. Rather than flat-lining, diesel-style, from around 2000rpm, AMG’s new engine generates peak torque at 5200rpm, while nevertheless producing more shove than the old one between 1000-2000rpm, the strongest surge developing from 3000rpm. Overall, said Illenberger, “it produces a more sporty delivery”.

More diesel-like are the 160 bar combustion pressures generated by the new unit, and a lighter yet more robust cylinder block developed to withstand them. It’s of the closed deck variety, creating a crankcase casting more like a part-closed box rather than a semi-open one, with deep, strengthening skirts around the cylinders. The new alloy block is as strong as a diesel engine’s, said Illenberger. The 16-valve cylinder head is also new, a key design challenge being the dispersal of the considerable heat generated.

Larger exhaust valves and valve seats, a redesigned water jacket, oil, water and air chilling for the turbo and separate coolant plumbing for the cylinder head and cylinder block allow more efficient and protective control of under-bonnet temperatures, assisted by electrically controlled water pumps. The head itself features ‘Camtronic’ variable inlet and exhaust valve control and dual injectors per cylinder.

A single piezo-injector per cylinder would be at the upper limit of its fuel volume delivery, said Illenberger, so a second quartet of injectors sits within the inlet manifold tracts to boost delivery under hard acceleration. The Camtronic system enables two camshaft profiles to provide a blend of good fuel economy and heightened throttle response.

The vanes of a sizeable turbocharger run in low-friction roller bearings, an electric wastegate minimising the loss of boost when pressure modulation is required. The turbo now lives between the engine and the front bulkhead, the cylinder head having been turned through 180deg in order to fit the engine beneath the lower bonnet lines of the new models.

The turbo’s new location requires extra cooling, some of this provided by an engine cover shaped to direct fan-generated airflow over it. Illenberger said that the electric water pumps may also function after the engine has been switched off, to cool the block, head and turbo. The more potent ‘S’ version sometimes harnesses the air conditioner for cooling too.

Besides designing an all-new engine, AMG has also developed a more streamlined way to make it. Each engine is still built under the ‘one man, one engine’ approach long used by the company (there are several women hand-assembling these engines too, incidentally) – the methods of electronically recording the sequence of component assembly, and the torque applied to each of its fixings, by each power tool. The new methods save time and improve ergonomics.

The new methods cut the production time by 20-25%, said plant manager Alexander Kurz, enabling AMG’s four-cylinder manufacturing facility to produce 140 engines per day over two shifts. The first car to feature this unit will be the A45 in July, the CLA 45 saloon appearing near-simultaneously, the GLA 45 a little later.
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Old 06-07-2019, 07:56 AM   #2
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It's not really fair to call it 'The worlds most powerful 2.0l 4-pot engine' is it though? it's got a massive turbo on it.

Although by that logic I could be the worlds most powerful man, while using a crane to help me lift things.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:27 AM   #3
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^not really sure I follow your logic... The engine itself is still producing the power. If, however, they were arguing that a mild hybrid engine with an electric-assist motor was the worlds most powerful, then I'd agree, but forced injection isn't analogous to human strength versus a crane... Maybe more like human strength and steroids....

It's pretty impressive to pull 415 hp and 396 lbft out of a 2 liter production engine that meets whatever fuel economy standards are necessary, and still offer a warranty.

No doubt aftermarket can beat this with big turbos, but not reliably, and certainly not while meeting emissions standards.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #4
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^not really sure I follow your logic... The engine itself is still producing the power. If, however, they were arguing that a mild hybrid engine with an electric-assist motor was the worlds most powerful, then I'd agree, but forced injection isn't analogous to human strength versus a crane... Maybe more like human strength and steroids....

It's pretty impressive to pull 415 hp and 396 lbft out of a 2 liter production engine that meets whatever fuel economy standards are necessary, and still offer a warranty.

No doubt aftermarket can beat this with big turbos, but not reliably, and certainly not while meeting emissions standards.
Agree with dwf. FI or not this is impressive.
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:35 PM   #5
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Didn't Mitsubishi have some Evos making more than 415?
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:40 PM   #6
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Didn't Mitsubishi have some Evos making more than 415?
Those were not built at the factory I don't think.
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Old 06-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #7
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Didn't Mitsubishi have some Evos making more than 415?
FQ series.


But, that was basically like the ESX cars. Just a bunch of aftermarket stuff (HKS IIRC) bolted on. Not really apples to apples. Give this engine the same treatment.....
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:08 PM   #8
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FQ series.


But, that was basically like the ESX cars. Just a bunch of aftermarket stuff (HKS IIRC) bolted on. Not really apples to apples. Give this engine the same treatment.....
They didn't change the internals and simply slapped on a ball-bearing HKS turbocharger and upgraded fuel system because those basic stock engines could handle it hence they came with full warranty. MB looks to have made a lot of serious modifications just to be able to make this happen. Not sure I like the chances of this engine lasting long if you slapped on a bigger turbo and cranked the boost as cylinder pressures are crazy high as-is. To be fair though Mitsubishi didn't have to worry about today's emission standards or care about fuel economy.

I'm still fond of 4-cylinder engines but I feel 400 hp range on a production car is crossing the line of diminishing returns. At this point a 5, 6 or 8 cylinder engine simply makes more sense as its one of those things where yeah it can be done but should it when automakers are easily making that kind of power with larger displacement and less complexity?
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Old 06-07-2019, 01:07 PM   #9
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Even then, this is going to have better low end torque.

Interesting how they went DI + Port injection.
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:22 PM   #10
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I'm more concerned this 30psi motor is running on 0w20 oil...

Plus they say it gets 400+ on 95 octane, but can run on 93 of needed... No mention of running on 91.
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:55 PM   #11
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I’m sure it’s 95 RON, or European octane. It’s about 91 US octane

I agree. I’d rather a 6 cylinder.
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:15 PM   #12
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Cool tidbit that the S uses the AC to actually cool things down. (in extreme conditions)
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:29 PM   #13
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Impressive but likely expensive. I’m thinking probably around 25 grand for this motor. I still appreciate the engineering that went into making this happen but if given the choice I’ll take something like the 2.5 T from the RS3 or B58/S55.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:05 PM   #14
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This motor makes sense for the times. With V8s on their way out in Europe, turbo V6s will take their place, and turbo 4s will take the place of the 6s.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:32 AM   #15
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The only question that matters is, is it lighter or smaller than an LS? Will it ever be worth someone's time and money to swap this engine into anything else? If not.. meh.

Having the most powerful 4-cylinder is a statistic, but not a positive in itself. It's similar to how Honda has been building crazy high volumetric efficiency engines since the late 80s.. but until they started building some beefy torquey engines (Js & Ks) did people start swapping them into other cars with any regularity. Engine swaps are an indicator of where economics and engineering are converging into newsworthy positives.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:42 AM   #16
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The only question that matters is, is it lighter or smaller than an LS? Will it ever be worth someone's time and money to swap this engine into anything else? If not.. meh.

Having the most powerful 4-cylinder is a statistic, but not a positive in itself. It's similar to how Honda has been building crazy high volumetric efficiency engines since the late 80s.. but until they started building some beefy torquey engines (Js & Ks) did people start swapping them into other cars with any regularity. Engine swaps are an indicator of where economics and engineering are converging into newsworthy positives.
Uhhh you can't compare this to an LS swap. Anything/almost anything modern from Mercedes is not a good candidate for engine swaps. Parts are too expensive and engine tuning is not easily available.

GM stuff is almost always going to be cheaper and easier than German stuff, whether it's an 8 cylinder or something smaller.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:46 PM   #17
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Uhhh you can't compare this to an LS swap. Anything/almost anything modern from Mercedes is not a good candidate for engine swaps. Parts are too expensive and engine tuning is not easily available.

GM stuff is almost always going to be cheaper and easier than German stuff, whether it's an 8 cylinder or something smaller.
Agreed. It's just cost prohibitive to use German engines for swaps. Only German engine that comes to mind used in swaps is the VR6.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:14 PM   #18
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Agreed. It's just cost prohibitive to use German engines for swaps. Only German engine that comes to mind used in swaps is the VR6.
M20, E36 Engines, E46 M3 engines are good swap candidates but those are only used within the BMW family.

Overall, I think majority of modern performance engines will never end up in a swap. Maybe 1% will get swapped. Using the "swap matrix" for justification for an engine is pretty silly.

Now if you want to talk about interchangeability between models for production use, thats a different story.
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
It's similar to how Honda has been building crazy high volumetric efficiency engines since the late 80s.. but until they started building some beefy torquey engines (Js & Ks) did people start swapping them into other cars with any regularity. Engine swaps are an indicator of where economics and engineering are converging into newsworthy positives.
Not entirely true, B18C5, H22, and Frankenstein swaps like the B20/B18 with B16 head were somewhat common prior to the K-series' introduction. Honda were always one of the most often swapped import makes. Although, I suppose there were relatively fewer of those B-swaps on account of needing to import the motors. The K20 certainly made the biggest difference though.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:51 AM   #20
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Uhhh you can't compare this to an LS swap. Anything/almost anything modern from Mercedes is not a good candidate for engine swaps. Parts are too expensive and engine tuning is not easily available.

GM stuff is almost always going to be cheaper and easier than German stuff, whether it's an 8 cylinder or something smaller.
So, if you want to go fast, why on Earth would you buy anything made by M-B that doesn't have a V8 or turbocharged V6?

Unless they're going to price them so cheap and make them so ubiquitous that they become affordable, there are so many better ways to spend money than on a boosted-to-the-nines 4 cylinder from M-B.

I'm not saying they need to build something "better" than an LS.. which are meh, in a lot of ways.. I'm saying they need to focus on building a better value for their customers. There are places where cost and quality converge on the field of play.. and they're intentionally swinging for the foul zones. After their last most powerful 4 cylinder was a raging dud, they went and tried to knock a better foul out of the park.

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Overall, I think majority of modern performance engines will never end up in a swap. Maybe 1% will get swapped. Using the "swap matrix" for justification for an engine is pretty silly.
Subaru EJ engines are crazy hot for swaps into rear-engined VWs and Porsches. Toyota V8s are popular in all kinds of things from hot rods, to drift cars. Folks are swapping Honda K-motors into Toyota MR-2s.

I'm not talking about justifying an engine.. I'm talking about justifying a "great" engine. And what I'm asking is.. what's so great about a 415hp 4 cylinder? If it was the 2.3L from Ford we'd all be cheering because it would end up in race cars and as a crate motor. But it's from M-B. It'll match the aura of the FWD-based compact with the stitched leather on the dash and the deep pile carpet at the dealership service center where you'll take your shoes off and engulf yourself in luxury while your car is being torn apart for the 5th time with endless warranty work.

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Now if you want to talk about interchangeability between models for production use, thats a different story.
Yeah, calling K-car motors great because they can be swapped between shadows and gen1 minivans isn't silly. How about the GEMA motors? Not a lot of folks clamoring for those, eh? Killed the EVO X.

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Not entirely true, B18C5, H22, and Frankenstein swaps like the B20/B18 with B16 head were somewhat common prior to the K-series' introduction. Honda were always one of the most often swapped import makes. Although, I suppose there were relatively fewer of those B-swaps on account of needing to import the motors. The K20 certainly made the biggest difference though.
To other makes? Were folks swapping B18s into Toyotas? I'm not talking about Honda-Honda swaps that take a trip to the parts store and an afternoon.. I'm talking about the kinds of engines that people select and decide are worth putting into other cars by engineering their own brackets, adapters, cooling systems, etc, etc.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter how fancy a feat Mercedes-Benz's horsepower/cylinder metric is... there's no way this thing will ever be anything other than something to avoid in the future.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:17 PM   #21
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someone needs to swap a porsche 4.0l flat-6 into a wrx, lol
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:47 PM   #22
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someone needs to swap a porsche 4.0l flat-6 into a wrx, lol
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2047734

Why not the other way?
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:14 AM   #23
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I am really glad all the pictures were still working.
That was very impressive work.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:53 AM   #24
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I am really glad all the pictures were still working.
That was very impressive work.
There's a little company down in Australia called Subarugears that makes a reverse ring & pinion for the Subaru 5 speeds. People are ditching their old 3 and 4 speed VW drivetrains like crazy.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:26 PM   #25
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An EP3 with an AMG swap would be pretty awesome, but a boosted K24 would put down more power for way less money and effort. Electric water pump? Pass.
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