|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
07-31-2008, 12:39 AM | #1 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Latest dyno results: 145hp, 144ft-lb on Mustang dyno
Earlier this year I moved from RI to WA, and at the end of May I finally got the Subaru shipped out to meet me. The last time I dyno'd the car was back in August '07, and I have plans to put a new/rebuilt engine in, so I wanted to re-do my "baseline" since I'm in a new area and will be using a new dyno.
While the car was on the East Coast in my brother's hands 2nd gear died, so the first order of business when it got here was to fix the transmission. I already had an STI 6MT on a pallet in my garage, so rather than fixing the 5MT I figured I would just go ahead and have the 6MT installed. That work was handled by Steve's Pacific Import Auto (PIA) in Tacoma, WA. The other change was the installation of a re-clocked ECU, which has raised the rev limiter to ~7150rpm. We didn't actually run it that high on the dyno, but it was supposed to be raised 10%, and the engine ran to 7000rpm without hitting the rev limiter, so it's up there somewhere. The guy who did the reclocking says it should not affect the fuel tables or spark tables, but I didn't remember to bring my other, stock ECU to do a comparison on the dyno. (One side effect of the re-clocking is that my PocketLogger won't sync to the OBD2 port anymore, nor would PIA's Subaru Select Tool, so I can't log timing to see what it's doing.) The engine that's in the car is an ebay special that I installed last year. It's a JDM engine, and Steve pointed out to me that it's actually a hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA) motor (like the '96 2.5GT engine, which was different than the '97-99 2.5GT engines). Interestingly, the '96 2.5GT was rated at only 155hp vs. 165hp for the '97-99 cars, but my dyno results both at PIA and back at Dentsport Garage on their Dyno Dynamics seem to indicate this engine is plenty healthy. The engine is all "stock" from oil pan to throttle body (I say "stock" since it's an imported engine and I don't know if there are differences from a USDM EJ25D). I have an Injen CAI, OBX header, S-AFC, hi-flow cat, Stromung cat-back, stock pulleys, the STI 6MT, and Fidanza aluminum flywheel. Note that I had no illusions that the engine would make power up high, I just wanted a curve to 7000rpm so I could compare when the new engine goes in. So, here's the graph: 145hp @ 6200rpm 144ft-lb @ 5000rpm On the Dyno Dynamics those numbers were: 125hp @ 6000rpm 130ft-lb @ 4000rpm On either dyno, you can definitely see that the engine just runs out of air at the top end. At 5200rpm the torque curve just starts dropping like a rock. By comparison, look at the green torque curve from this dyno of my old engine with Cobb-ported heads and reground cams - torque holds its ground at high RPMs much better. Running some numbers, for the stock heads/cams engine in the car now, on both the Dyno Dynamics and the Mustang dyno, the torque @ 6500rpm is 78% of torque at 5000rpm. For the Cobb heads/cam engine, torque @ 6500rpm is 90.5% of torque at 5000rpm! That's quite a difference! Next up is to test the two ECUs I've got (stock vs. re-clocked), and then to do an intake manifold comparison (stock vs. GrimmSpeed PnP - just shipped them a manifold today). Theeeennn, hopefully I'll have the new engine built - same old Cobb heads and cams rebuilt with TWE springs and retainers, higher rev limit, ported intake manifold, lighter rotating assembly, and ~10.8:1 CR. I'm definitely curious to see how much power it can put down. Pat Olsen
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
|
07-31-2008, 01:00 AM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 38829
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Tigard, OR
Vehicle:Not your usual 1997 Legacy GT |
Impressive! I'm looking forward to seeing those numbers too. Glad the 6mt is treating you well. What gear did you make that pull in, out of curiosity?
Aaron |
07-31-2008, 01:50 AM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 74907
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: salem, OR
Vehicle:98 cam'd EJ251 Wrx Tranny,slowr than ish |
That is interesting,wonder if I could have my ecu reflashed for rev limit removal...maybe the governor could disappear also...
Anyway, are you gong to be using new pistons for the higher CR? I figured you would need to use basically the same HG thickness as stock. ~Josh~ |
07-31-2008, 10:39 AM | #4 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
4th gear.
Quote:
Pat |
|
08-02-2008, 04:17 AM | #5 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71875
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montana
|
Cool stuff Pat. I just picked up a gt and will be doing similar things with it. As an added bonus I have a dyno at work so I'll be doing some pulls too.
I doubt I'll get too far into things though since I'd rather just swap in a 2.5 turbo motor down the line. |
08-02-2008, 03:02 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 118334
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: IT'SOKIFYOUDON'TGETIT!
Vehicle:2006 Red GDA-F 2005 Aspen White GDA-E |
glad to see this pat
when my old 2.5i was tuned, i had a 7k redline also, but i could feel the powerband fall off at about 6k or so just like your chart shows |
08-02-2008, 09:04 PM | #7 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Quote:
Boooooorrrriiiiiiiinnnngggg. If I wasn't so stubborn I would've done the same thing long ago, but now I just keep fiddling with the N/A route. |
|
08-03-2008, 03:30 AM | #8 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71875
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montana
|
Quote:
As for the swap, well, we tuned a 20g "ish" turbo today, and with enough race gas made 370whp. |
|
08-04-2008, 07:06 PM | #9 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 136396
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:2020 STI, 2022 WRX |
Let us know how it goes, were excited to see results on the 2.5 na manifolds!!
www.grimmspeed.com Mike |
08-05-2008, 11:09 AM | #10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 964
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Bonney Lake, Wash. USA
Vehicle:'95 work in progress |
Nice work man. Tell me more about this ecu please?!?
|
08-05-2008, 01:04 PM | #11 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
Qman, you got a PM......
Pat, nice results! I wonder if you can get some sort of timing log from the dyno itself? Jay |
08-22-2008, 08:37 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 134943
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Oakton
Vehicle:94 SW2, 95 SW2 9(?) Lemons Car |
Forgive my ignorance, I don't know much about tuning Subaru engines... but is 12.8 max A/F still kind of low for an N/A motor? Can that be safely raised closer to the theoretical maximum power point (~13.8:1)? Also, it looks like the AFR is all over the place down low... any idea what causes that?
It does appear that it just can't flow worth crap above 5k where torque begins its steady decline... what is generally the limiting factor on these motors? Cams? Heads? Intake manifold? |
08-23-2008, 03:05 AM | #13 | ||
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Quote:
As for the bouncy AFR down low, my understanding (based solely on what people say here, not any real technical evidence) is that the older pre-01 or pre-02ish ECUs go to open loop at once you're WOT and >4krpm. So at lower RPM I think it's still closed loop, and the funky AFR is due to the ECU and S-AFC fighting. Quote:
Pat Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 08-23-2008 at 03:11 AM. |
||
08-23-2008, 10:06 AM | #14 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:2002 Ford F-150 Graphite Gray |
so with the rev limiter hack you cant connect an obdII tool to scan for codes or you just can view live data?
|
08-23-2008, 04:36 PM | #15 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
The two devices that have been tried - my old PocketLogger using a Palm Vx, and the Subaru Select Tool - could not sync with the OBD2 port to reset the CEL.
Pat |
08-23-2008, 09:17 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 964
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Bonney Lake, Wash. USA
Vehicle:'95 work in progress |
Numbers from the flow bench indicate the biggest limiter to be the intake. The cams can be ground to allow for top end power increases. The heads can be ported for increased flow and velocity for the N/A application. However, the intake decreases some of the gains of porting. I tried the bigger '05+ intake also. It flowed huge numbers but had less velocity which would show as loss of power for N/A's. I have not tested the ceramic coating yet. That wil happen as soon as I get my car back together.
Thanks for the info Jay. It will help attain better numbers for sure!! |
08-23-2008, 09:18 PM | #17 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
Unfortunately, it's true. The rev limit mod renders the OBDII port useless. I don't know why, but it is what it is.....
Glad to help out, Qman!!!! Jay |
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM | #18 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Quote:
Oh, if you have flow bench numbers for different intakes, I'd be curious to see them. Unfortunately, I don't have any easy way to try it out, since the bolt pattern doesn't match my heads. I actually have an '05+ intake, which I bought with the intention of having someone merge it with the runners/head flanges of one of my spare DOHC manifolds. I've never seriously looked into it, though, and it seems like it would be tough to do cleanly. Pat |
|
08-23-2008, 11:10 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
^^^so you should send it to me..... I'll trade you 2 twin throat FoMoCo throttlebodies for it!
Jay |
08-24-2008, 01:31 AM | #20 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
What the hell am I gonna do with 2 twin-throat Ford throttle bodies? (Are these '03+ Cobra TBs or something? I will need a cable TB with built-in IAC for the EZ30R at some point...)
I haven't given up on the idea of using the '05 manifold, I just haven't put much thought into how it could be done and finding someone to do the work. When I was still in New England, Dentsport Garage had said they could do it, but that was about a month before I moved and in those last few weeks I just never had a chance to get up to their shop to drop off the two manifolds. I've actually thought about doing it myself, just using some silicone elbows to join the center plenum section of the '05 with the injector/flange section of the DOHC intake. I would still need to figure out the cable throttle body action, as there's no provision for a throttle cable bracket (not a huge obstacle) and the bolt pattern for the DBW TB is a bit different (a bigger obstacle). Pat |
08-24-2008, 08:52 AM | #21 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 6178
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Singletracks
Vehicle:98 GM67 2 whls > 4 whls |
|
08-24-2008, 12:08 PM | #22 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Fortunately for me, since I'm stationed out of state, I don't have to worry about CT emissions - I just send in a letter to get a waiver every year. Of course, even with the non-re-clocked ECU, I pop CELs every couple of days due to the lightweight flywheel, so I'd have a helluva time passing if I did have to get it tested.
Pat |
08-24-2008, 12:40 PM | #23 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
For me, I do an ECU reset just before testing to get rid of any CEL. When they plug in and can't link up, they test for tampering (wire cutting). When that comes through clean, they have to hook up the sniffer and run the motor at an rpm simulating 25mph. It always ends up passing.
Yeah, I make them work for it....but they make the rules, not me. I could tell them exactly what they need to do and save everyone alot of time....but they think they know best, so I let 'em go through the whole ordeal, smirking through the window. Jay |
08-24-2008, 01:05 PM | #24 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 964
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Bonney Lake, Wash. USA
Vehicle:'95 work in progress |
Quote:
Hopefully, in the next month I will be back on the dyno to get number for the heads, intake and throttle body spacers, then the new cams I am coming up with. And of course, the re-clocked ecu. The nice thing is I will be using the exact same dyno as Pat just did and we will be able to compare numbers. This is the sheet from my first runs on that dyno. And comparing a stock RS. Current set up includes SPT intake, torque cams, EL header, lightened flywheel and perfect power 6. Pretty mild set up that gives good numbers. Hoping to acheive 200 at the wheels with the next set up. |
|
08-24-2008, 01:06 PM | #25 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 964
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Bonney Lake, Wash. USA
Vehicle:'95 work in progress |
Quote:
|
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Sreet Tune, Dyno Results: JDM STi EJ207 Blouch Dom3, dyno video too | DuCash | Proven Power Bragging | 46 | 11-01-2009 11:25 AM |
Dailydevil dynoes does decent on Mustang dyno. | reddevil | Proven Power Bragging | 7 | 09-25-2009 08:40 PM |
Dyno results - 168hp, 153ft-lb on a Dynojet | Patrick Olsen | Normally Aspirated Powertrain | 22 | 01-29-2008 01:28 PM |
Latest dyno results - 145.7hp, 129.5ft-lb on a Dyno Dynamics | Patrick Olsen | Normally Aspirated Powertrain | 22 | 03-15-2007 05:02 PM |
443hp 378ft/lb on Mustang Dyno | 99RSTurbo | Proven Power Bragging | 25 | 11-18-2005 09:37 PM |