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Old 06-07-2006, 01:39 PM   #1
Patrick Olsen
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Default Latest dyno results - 168hp, 153ft-lb N/A

Yesterday I dyno'd the car for the first time in about 3-1/2 years or more. All my previous dyno runs were on a Dyno Dynamics dyno, which generates pretty low numbers compared to Dynojets and Dynapaks. I think Mustang dynos are somewhere in between. Aaaanyway, the list of pertinent modifications:
167k mile stock EJ25D DOHC shortblock
Cobb Stage 1 ported heads
Cobb Stage 1 "street racer" cams
Injen CAI
MRT header
2.25" header back - metallic substrate hi-flow cat, MRT midpipe, Stromung muffler
Fidanza aluminum flywheel
S-AFC

The only real changes since the car was dyno'd ~4 years ago are the muffler, which went from the old MRT to the new Stromung, and the cat, which went from the original MRT hi-flow to the current hi-flow. Needless to say, I don't expect either of those changes had any impact on the power the car's making.

I've also had all 3 diffs swapped out, but I would imagine that, too, would have minimal impact on the results. (I did learn in searching over in the N/A Forum, though, that my Cusco 35/65 center diff can't be run on a Dynapak, so there's something for future reference...).

The graph:


The blue curve is what the car laid down when we first put it on the rollers. The ECU had last been reset probably a week or so ago, S-AFC settings were as I had set them in the past (based on dyno time and, later, some limited wideband "tuning" with my LM-1). After doing the initial run, I unhooked the battery to reset the ECU and then did some more runs. The red lines are from the 1st run after the ECU reset and that's the highest HP figure the car put down. Interestingly enough, that's with the S-AFC all zero'd out, which is strange because 4 years ago (the last time it was on the dyno) the car clearly gained top end when I leaned it out with the S-AFC.

Clearly, at the low end into the mid-range, the graph looks like ass - this is due to the car pulling timing (for reasons unknown). You can see where it really jumps in around 3250rpm or so on the red (post ECU reset) curve. With each additional run that got earlier and earlier in the RPM band, so by the final runs the timing was being pulled from about 2500rpm on up to 4000rpm. Once it gets to open loop around 4000rpm, though, look out! Today or tomorrow I'm going to install the "hesitation fix" on the knock sensor and see what that does. More on that at a later date...

As an example of how differently dynos can read, this car put down 142whp on the Dyno Dynamics dyno. At that point it had 100k miles or so on it (I'll have to go look that up), it now has nearly 168k miles on it. If anything, I would expect it to be making less power now than it did 4 years ago, yet the slightly-more-optimistic Dynojet has it cranking out an extra 26hp.

Edit: Here's an old graph from 4 years ago, in which you can see the hesitation/timing issue was just beginning - this dyno trip was actually the first time I noticed it.

At that point, it was visible on the dyno graph, but I really couldn't feel it in the SOTP. It has gotten progressively worse with time, though, and is definitely something I can feel and obviously you can see how much worse it is on the new graph.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 06-07-2006, 01:51 PM   #2
xcntrk75
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Awesome numbers Pat!

So what’s going on with pulling timing? Perhaps the AFR is too lean and you’re experiencing detonation? I know squat about NA tuning, but that AFR is lean as hell at 13.0:1 in mid then getting even leaner toward redline at nearly 14.0:1 (blue)! Interestingly the ECU changes the fueling dramatically post reset (red) and it looks a lot better perhaps enabling more power without knock(?). Where did you dyno?
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:07 PM   #3
Patrick Olsen
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I dyno'd at Extreme Motorsports in Odenton.

For a N/A car 13:1 is pretty rich. A N/A motor doesn't need to be nearly as rich as a FI motor. In the past, I saw max power around 13.5 - 14:1.

Regardless, enriching the mixture doesn't help the problem, which is why I think it's just an overly sensitive knock sensor circuit.

Pat
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:05 PM   #4
fibuz
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Thats more HP than my stock WRX got on a Mustang Dyno last month
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:10 PM   #5
Patrick Olsen
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Not too surprising, as Mustang dynos read lower than Dynojets. From what I've seen, Mustangs read something close to the Dyno Dynamics.

Pat
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:25 PM   #6
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How much did those heads & cams run you?

What kind of mileage are you getting under what driving conditions?

Awesome car Pat
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:20 PM   #7
Patrick Olsen
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www.cobbtuning.com for prices, nothing new there.

I get around 26mpg or so on the highway cruising at 75-80mph. Keep in mind I have the Outback 5th gear, too, which puts my RPMs about 11% higher in 5th. It's basically 20:1 - at 80mph I'm at 4000rpm.

My normal mixed driving (which is predominantly highway/large 2 lane divided roads) I get 22-23mpg.

Pat
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:40 PM   #8
GTWagon_Phreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
www.cobbtuning.com for prices, nothing new there.

I get around 26mpg or so on the highway cruising at 75-80mph. Keep in mind I have the Outback 5th gear, too, which puts my RPMs about 11% higher in 5th. It's basically 20:1 - at 80mph I'm at 4000rpm.

My normal mixed driving (which is predominantly highway/large 2 lane divided roads) I get 22-23mpg.

Pat
Do you have an idea as to what 100% city driving might yield? That's all I ever seem to do and my mileage isn't great as is

Just curious as I'm contemplating a new N/A engine + 5-speed in the future. Thanks!
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:36 AM   #9
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cant wait for you to break 500 hp... keep it up
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:05 AM   #10
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTWagon_Phreak
Do you have an idea as to what 100% city driving might yield? That's all I ever seem to do and my mileage isn't great as is
Not really. I will say that over the years my mileage hasn't really changed much as I've modified the car, so I would expect you'll get close to what you're getting now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyg113
cant wait for you to break 500 hp... keep it up
Ummmmm... I'm afraid you're going to have to. Hell, even my Mustang won't clear 500hp.

Pat
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:17 AM   #11
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That's awesome man, nice numbers. Do you plan on doing much more?


~Mike
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:15 AM   #12
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Pat,

Do you have comparison numbers for this dyno? How much HP does a stock WRX, STI, LGT, etc put down.

Without a baseline comparo the numbers don't really "mean" that much, if you know what I mean.

Jared
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:25 AM   #13
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilfflip
That's awesome man, nice numbers. Do you plan on doing much more?
In the short term, I have an OBX header to put on the car. In the coming months, the car will either get a rebuilt 2.5L (pretty much the same setup I've got, just freshened a bit), or perhaps an EZ30 or EZ30R. I'm trying to work that out right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtwagon941
Do you have comparison numbers for this dyno? How much HP does a stock WRX, STI, LGT, etc put down.
No idea. I'm sure if I searched I could find Dynojet numbers for other cars, and Dynojets are supposed to be very repeatable from one dyno to the next, so numbers from another dyno should be close to this specific dyno. It really doesn't matter to me - I did this to show how a Dynojet compares to a Dyno Dynamics, and to "re-baseline" my car before I do more stuff to it. My old dyno results from 4 years ago have already been compared to stock WRXs run on that Dyno Dynamics dyno, so making new comparisons wouldn't tell me anything I don't already know.

Pat
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:17 PM   #14
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I think if you go with the 25% drivetrain loss, it would be somewhere around 124 hp roughly.

----------------

It's too bad you don't live near me Pat. Your setup is very similar to my original goals for my car, including the Fidanza flywheel I had that ended up not compatible with my current setup. I would really like to check your car out.

I know somewhere in this forum someone took a Legacy to the max with N/A performance. I can't remember the numbers. I imagine any further upgrades for power is going to be pretty spendy, so I think your setup is perfect.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
In the coming months, the car will either get a rebuilt 2.5L (pretty much the same setup I've got, just freshened a bit), or perhaps an EZ30 or EZ30R. I'm trying to work that out right now.
Let me know how that goes. As I mentioned I'm considering keeping this as a long-term daily driver and would want to "refresh" the engine as well and add a 5-speed. I had thoughts of the H6 instead, how big of a problem is it to use that?
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:34 PM   #16
Patrick Olsen
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Big. Check the Subaru Conversions forum for extensive discussion of putting the H6 in.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
Big. Check the Subaru Conversions forum for extensive discussion of putting the H6 in.
Might just stick with the 2.5L then

Unless you wanna put it in for me I'd even tip you
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