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Old 03-06-2020, 07:22 AM   #26
rtv900
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
No sitting in traffic does... I have a koyo!
Can putt around at 1k rpm no issue no bucking cars smooth!
sitting in traffic shouldn't make a difference just because the engine 'can' make 600hp, when you aren't hard on it you aren't putting that energy into the cooling system so it's no different than a stock motor.

anyhow, again, just doesn't sound believable that a 2.5 liter that makes 600+ hp can cruise around at 1000 rpm's and run well.
Seriously man, 1000 rpm's and it's smooth????????
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:23 AM   #27
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I have 550whp sti thing suck ass on street no way in the world any one would want to daily it,
^this on the other hand sounds very believable
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:17 AM   #28
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I agree, there is no way that a car that is built for 600WHP runs smooth. I want a video of it running smooth on a dyno showing 600WHP. I had 420whp on my STi and even that was barley smooth. Mainly due to stock cams.
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:56 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
No sitting in traffic does... I have a koyo!
Can putt around at 1k rpm no issue no bucking cars smooth!


The only traffic this car sees is staging lanes at local drag strip, seriously man even if you love driving you can so much and dont mind all the jerky jerky thats comes with built car WHY would you daily it do you really want door dings and rock chips on something that cost 30k plus to built and years of hard work? Like seriously you cant afford civic or corolla for daily driving? Built motor making 600whp not known to last I would rather enjoy it as long as it last vs waisting it sitting traffic
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:06 AM   #30
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I wasn't implying that the stock radiator wasn't capable of keeping the engine cool, I just know how prone they are to cracking and wouldn't want to risk an expensive built engine overheating because of a cracked plastic end tank. Thank you and have a good day sir.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:20 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by murrdogg24 View Post
I wasn't implying that the stock radiator wasn't capable of keeping the engine cool, I just know how prone they are to cracking and wouldn't want to risk an expensive built engine overheating because of a cracked plastic end tank. Thank you and have a good day sir.


I understand what you meant and i do agree with you I know they crack however not as ofter

Last edited by igoiks; 03-06-2020 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:34 PM   #32
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The only traffic this car sees is staging lanes at local drag strip, seriously man even if you love driving you can so much and dont mind all the jerky jerky thats comes with built car WHY would you daily it do you really want door dings and rock chips on something that cost 30k plus to built and years of hard work? Like seriously you cant afford civic or corolla for daily driving? Built motor making 600whp not known to last I would rather enjoy it as long as it last vs waisting it sitting traffic
I've dailyed my car for some time. I park far away and never leave the car alone for long.

Now it's on chill in the garage.

But you'd be surprised how easy it is to avoid traffic if you actually TRY!

I do agree with you on the rock chips though they're a pita. Wrap it up!
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:11 PM   #33
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Default Another 600 HP build

Hate to see threads deteriorate into trivia like whether you want to risk getting your paint chipped from driving.
I read everything because I was asked to help spec an engine for 600 HP. Having personally only reached 470 I was searching for limits for certain combinations. That and I am planning to go to 500-525 on my own next build and I have one stock bore pinned case in mind to use. I was not going to do closed deck, though I could be talked out of it. Or, I could get a case sleeved that I have. But I digress a bit.

The 600 HP engine will run flex fuel. Being an '08 STI it can have three tunes. One could be a street tune of 450. One could be 5-something.
It is DAVCS. Will likely run ported, +1 valve heads with 272 cams. If big valves aren't needed then the stock valves might be retained, but the guy would like to rev to 8K. I know Beehives/Ti retainers are needed, but valves?

I make 470 on a stock case at 24 PSI. I'm assuming I'm near the threshold for needing to do closed deck. Is the difference in closed deck vs sleeves more an economic one or do stock bores sometimes fail at 600 even if CD is added? Then, can you do even one overbore with CD and use the same boost so you stay at 600 HP?
I'm considering suggesting a BW EFR 7670. I run an 8374 and feel it might not make a great street turbo. Mine only wakes up at 3,500.
Lastly, can I use the STI intake and make 600 on E85? Seems it would be borderline for flow.
Suggestions?
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:41 AM   #34
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this is one of the dumbest threads i have ever read.

you're looking at about 50k to do this properly, and years of knowledge to bolt it all together.

i'd find a reputable shop, write them a check for 50g's, and come back a couple of weeks later. this is NOT something you can save yourself a few bucks on by doing it yourself after a couple of afternoons on google.
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:51 AM   #35
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viscous fishes, I hope you are not addressing me specifically. I have years of building experience. I'm just exploring the options and the limitations beyond where I have already had success. I have almost 50 hours on my 470 HP race engine and I did everything myself except set up the heads. I'm looking for second opinions or to confirm what I believe I need to do (hopefully all in this thread). I also have parts to build three engines and they are all at different levels of quality and strength.

I left out a couple of questions:
Do I need larger than -8AN for 600 HP on E85? I know I could go through all the math, but is there a simple answer? I believe the feed line from the tank needs upsizing. Saw some crazy fuel rails from Radium with dual injectors and -10AN fittings. I'm just doing -8AN on my new 500-525 gasoline build.

Head studs and gaskets: I'm using ARP 625 and stock head gaskets on my 24 PSI engine and haven't had an issue. I've had it to 26 PSI for 5 seconds straight, per lap, when I was overboosting with no ill effect either. When do you need to go to 14mm studs? What are stock head gaskets good for?
If I have average efficiencies, FMIC, open exhaust and E85, what kind of boost am I looking at to get to 600?
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:12 AM   #36
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viscous fishes, I hope you are not addressing me specifically. I have years of building experience. I'm just exploring the options and the limitations beyond where I have already had success. I have almost 50 hours on my 470 HP race engine and I did everything myself except set up the heads. I'm looking for second opinions or to confirm what I believe I need to do (hopefully all in this thread). I also have parts to build three engines and they are all at different levels of quality and strength.



I left out a couple of questions:

Do I need larger than -8AN for 600 HP on E85? I know I could go through all the math, but is there a simple answer? I believe the feed line from the tank needs upsizing. Saw some crazy fuel rails from Radium with dual injectors and -10AN fittings. I'm just doing -8AN on my new 500-525 gasoline build.



Head studs and gaskets: I'm using ARP 625 and stock head gaskets on my 24 PSI engine and haven't had an issue. I've had it to 26 PSI for 5 seconds straight, per lap, when I was overboosting with no ill effect either. When do you need to go to 14mm studs? What are stock head gaskets good for?

If I have average efficiencies, FMIC, open exhaust and E85, what kind of boost am I looking at to get to 600?


Ask your tuner
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:40 AM   #37
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I've been a paying and contributing member here for over nine years.
Check out some of my threads.
Is this what NASIOC is becoming? Thanks for nothing.
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:49 AM   #38
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I've been a paying and contributing member here for over nine years.
Check out some of my threads.
Is this what NASIOC is becoming? Thanks for nothing.
you know this is the internet right? just saying, if you are looking for a certain power level the best way is to see what others have done. google Subaru 600whp and see what comes up. just a little info, when going over the 450whp mark there is alot more you have to do to the engine to make it semi reliable. bet even at that the engine probably isnt going to stay to gether for very long.

the problem people have with threads like this is you the questions asked should be asked to a shop not the interenet. the guys that are getting these power levels either have lots of knowlege that dont like to share, or they are haveing a shop build it so they dont have all the knowlege anyways.

but yeah just to help. find a reputable shop and ask then what you need to do to get that level of power.
Also know that if you do get that you probably arent going to make any power until 5000ish or a little later unless you rework the header.

heres a start check out this guys thread. This is one of the best builds ive seen in a long time
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2636308
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:14 PM   #39
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Is this what NASIOC is becoming?

yep.... why do you think there are less and less valuable tech threads
no point to waste time trying to explain something to an "overnight shipment from japan" expert

I personally think you should be ok with 8AN with base fuel pressure for these goals

as for studs, I actually managed to blow HG and light a head just slightly with 625s under crazy knocking events (I lost connection to one of my coil packs so the fund didn't last for long )
so I am doing 14mm now, just because I got bored of rebuilding motors
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:57 PM   #40
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Default ej257 600+whp build?

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Originally Posted by Scargod View Post
I've been a paying and contributing member here for over nine years.

Check out some of my threads.

Is this what NASIOC is becoming? Thanks for nothing.


Your questions made no sense thats why I referred you to a tuner im sorry you got upset

What size fuel hose you need to make 600whp totally depends on your system i run stock lines from tank to surge tank in the engine bay than -6 to filter and -8 from filter to Y and from 2 -6 to rails, if you have surge tank in the back then -8 feed and both stock lines for return

What boost to to get to 600 whp? Somewhere between 20-40psi totally depends on turbo exhaust set up smaller turbo will spool faster run higher pressure will have higher back pressure and blow your motor sooner, larger turbo will be easier on the motor run less boost but have terrible response and power bend.

600whp only good for drag racing maybe freeway pulls will suck on street or circuit track autox or anything that requires fast response

Last edited by igoiks; 03-26-2020 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:23 PM   #41
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smaller turbo will spool faster run higher pressure will have higher back pressure and blow your motor sooner, larger turbo will be easier on the motor run less boost
where did this line of thinking come from?

Boost is how much more air is in a space compared to atmosphere. What does it mean to say a bigger turbo runs less boost?

The manifold sees a mass of air inside it. . .it has no idea where that air came from, it is forced in.
You could build pressure inside a space with a fireplace billow if you worked hard enough and ducted it in properly
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:54 PM   #42
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I do it on stock lines. Twin 450s -8 feed in Bay from stock line, -6 return to stock line. I'm about to mod the relief valves on my pumps. And put in check valves on feed and return in engine bay. Had issues with fuel pressure regulator maintaining steady pressure on 38psi so for now it's turned down to 28psi trapped 136mph on 28psi 10.8 et spinning all first gear.
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:59 PM   #43
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The only traffic this car sees is staging lanes at local drag strip, seriously man even if you love driving you can so much and dont mind all the jerky jerky thats comes with built car WHY would you daily it do you really want door dings and rock chips on something that cost 30k plus to built and years of hard work? Like seriously you cant afford civic or corolla for daily driving? Built motor making 600whp not known to last I would rather enjoy it as long as it last vs waisting it sitting traffic
I daily a UA6 6 speed. Very comfy but I'd daily my Subaru it's a very smooth ride. Jr did a great job tuning it. And I did a decent job putting it all together.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:00 PM   #44
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Default ej257 600+whp build?

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where did this line of thinking come from?



Boost is how much more air is in a space compared to atmosphere. What does it mean to say a bigger turbo runs less boost?



The manifold sees a mass of air inside it. . .it has no idea where that air came from, it is forced in.

You could build pressure inside a space with a fireplace billow if you worked hard enough and ducted it in properly

1/2” pipe and 1” pipe both at 20psi. 1” will have more air in it, boost alone doesn’t make power cylinder pressure is , small turbo will have higher back pressure, because of valve overlap you will fill cylinder with exhaust unburnable air basically making the engine smaller , with larger turbo you need much less boost to make same power ALOT LESS.

Last edited by igoiks; 03-26-2020 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:31 AM   #45
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1/2” pipe and 1” pipe both at 20psi.
^this is the type of nonsense that creates misinformation, just stating something like you just did up here to support a completely different topic in no way related to this statement above

How about a 5 million inch pipe at 20psi, how much air is in there? A million times more? Great, it has NO idea where that air came from and you seriously think it makes a difference to the tiny littler cylinder intaking air from it?

How would it matter? The tiny 1/2 liter cylinder pulls in 1/2 liter at 20 psi from the million cubic foot pipe at 20psi.

Makes NO difference.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:40 AM   #46
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This is not something you learn how to do with some time on the internet and a forum thread.

Take it to someone that knows what they're doing, write a big check, and come back a couple weeks later.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:25 AM   #47
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Boost is how much more air is in a space compared to atmosphere. What does it mean to say a bigger turbo runs less boost?

Dude really? PSI stand for Pounds per Square which measures pressures incase you didn’t know now psi has nothing to do with volume, so yeah Mr. know everything bigger turbo will move more volume of air there for less pressure is needed to get same amount of air in the cylinder. How can someone even argue with this ??
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:59 AM   #48
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Dude really? PSI stand for Pounds per Square which measures pressures incase you didn’t know now psi has nothing to do with volume, so yeah Mr. know everything bigger turbo will move more volume of air there for less pressure is needed to get same amount of air in the cylinder. How can someone even argue with this ??
^I love responses like this

A turbo pushes air into a space brosky, period. If your magical bigger turbo 'moves more air' feeding the same displacement at the same rpm then it will build a higher pressure. . . . . you know why, because what else would happen here on planet earth?

Just re-read the sentence you wrote that I underlined.
Seriously, where are you going with that? Did Merlin the magician make the bigger turbo to defy the laws of thermodynamics or something?
You literally said this "bigger turbo" can somehow force MORE air into the SAME space and yet that ends up being LOWER pressure but the air mass is somehow there despite this.

oh yeah, and btw, you were the one making the volume reference in your previous post, I just responded to it since it made no sense
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:20 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by igoiks View Post
Dude really? PSI stand for Pounds per Square which measures pressures incase you didn’t know now psi has nothing to do with volume, so yeah Mr. know everything bigger turbo will move more volume of air there for less pressure is needed to get same amount of air in the cylinder. How can someone even argue with this ??
here a question then, if you have 2 turbos one small and the other big pushing the same psi why will the bigger turbo make more power
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:25 PM   #50
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here a question then, if you have 2 turbos one small and the other big pushing the same psi why will the bigger turbo make more power
^this is how the myth started

a bigger setup can certainly make more net power on the same psi, but it is because the intake plumbing and exhaust plumbing are all sized significantly bigger so the pumping losses are far less, particularly at higher rpm.
Ultimately the motor makes more power by losing less, not making more, hence the net increase.
And hence, the start of a myth
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