Subaru BRZ and WRX Sales Are Tanking

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Its the oil pressure drop on right handers thats the real issue.

valid

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[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

RTV issue for the twins isn't an issue for the 2nd gen. The strainer is a 5 sided construction. There's no flow difference with RTV in the strainer and no RTV. Lazy engineering, but no detriment to oil pressure and therefore reliability.

https://www.gr86.org/threads/rtv-had...ressure.11541/

Yeah, I'm still not a fan. But I get your point.

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

It's the oil pressure drop on right handers thats the real issue.

Bingo. I follow a couple of guys on YT and the development of potential solutions to that has been interesting to watch.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Its the oil pressure drop on right handers thats the real issue.

Yep. If you are going to seriously drive the car, dropping the oil pan, cleaning up the RTV mess and adding an oil baffle is seriously advised.

[JRodrigues]

https://www.motor1.com/features/7471...on-sales-2024/

BRZ: 77.8%
WRX: 86.7%
Subaru continues to be one of the top sellers of manual cars in the US, even if the base Impreza/Crosstrek are now CVT-only. As was the case last year, the BRZ's manual take rate is holding strong at a little under 80 percent, while the WRX's increased from 74 percent to 86.7 percent we see right now. With 18,587 sold in total across 2024 and thus 16,115 manuals, the ***8216;Rex is one of the most popular manual cars in the country.

[rexster]

0% for 36 months on a new WRX, 2.9 for a BRZ. I thought December was the best time to buy a new car, but there’s all kinds of new incentives popping up now. You can lease an ID4 for almost nothing for two years.

[rexster]

Originally Posted by quentinberg007

Use the Toyota inventory site, sort for 6MT base, performance package, see what's out there and in transit. The small number of GR 86 on the ground makes it more difficult, but dealerships can also preference what they want.

I checked the toyota inventory site. There is one 86 within 500 miles of me with the power pack and it's a 36k+ premium. According to Edmund's.con there are only two base models with the performance pack in the entire country, but they could already be sold. I have tried to buy two different Toyotas within the last two years and even though there are tons of dealers near me they all tell me they can't get me what I want because toyota doesn't build it. Or they can get it, but I'll have to pay thousands extra and might need to settle for a color I don't want. Try finding an AWD Camry XLE without a pano roof or the 4k premium package. Last I checked, there were five in the country and they're all black or white with a light interior. Toyota knows how to price and sell their cars in a way that forces customers to pay thousands in extra features. That's why I likely won't buy one.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by rexster

I checked the toyota inventory site. There is one 86 within 500 miles of me with the power pack and it's a 36k+ premium. According to Edmund's.con there are only two base models with the performance pack in the entire country, but they could already be sold. I have tried to buy two different Toyotas within the last two years and even though there are tons of dealers near me they all tell me they can't get me what I want because toyota doesn't build it. Or they can get it, but I'll have to pay thousands extra and might need to settle for a color I don't want. Try finding an AWD Camry XLE without a pano roof or the 4k premium package. Last I checked, there were five in the country and they're all black or white with a light interior. Toyota knows how to price and sell their cars in a way that forces customers to pay thousands in extra features. That's why I likely won't buy one.

What you have to do is find a MSRP only stealer. In my state, that means a 3 hour drive to another major metro and even then, the Toyota MSRP stealer is in a suburb, not the main city. When found, $1000 deposit, and get it in writing that it is refundable. Once 12 months lapses, or as the year goes on you get bumped up and up the list. That means say you have a deposit, but many others do as well on Tacomas, Tundras, Prius, whatever. As time goes on people either buy elsewhere, cancel deposit or take delivery. As that progresses you keep getting moved up the list and moved up in priority status. Once it hits 12 calendar months, or longer, you are at a point where they can actually order what you want as the honest dealers will give you one of their few "custom" allocations which is a fancy way of saying you get to order your car. That's how it works. But you need a MSRP only dealer, and you will have to wait.

Then the port add ons. In my region it is Gulf States Toyota, and they add port installed options. Some stealers have enough pull to have this bs removed but it takes them work. They have to call the port, throw a fit, and put in the time. Most stealers don't want to do this. And in my region it doesn't happen. But other regions, the West/NW, and East Coast I've seen this happen too many times. That ticks me off because Gulf States won't do this but other regions will. I don't know how many Toyota regions there are but I know of at least 3-4. They are separate companies at the corporate level. I mean in my region I know who it is, and where the cars are all stored until they ship to the stealers.

None of this is advertised but it's how it works. I know a salesman that is a SME who relayed and I did my own independent research to verify. They hide all this as well as they don't want customers knowing. If they did, many people would be refusing to buy any trim/color they don't want and insisting they get exact trim/color/spec. And the port/region you're in with Toyota certainly doesn't want you knowing this and canceling winter mats, charging cables, homelink mirrors and such, that you don't want.

I kept my Monroney sheet from the window of my car.

Premium Carpet Mat Set (Carpet Floor Mats and Trunk Mat): $299.00
Connectivity Kit: $75.00 (f'ing charging cables)
Spider Cargo Net: $59.00 (Actually useful but a hatch floor mounted net)
Frameless Homelink Rearview Mirror: $199.00
Vehicle Protection Package: $399.00
Paint Renewer Cleaner
Paint Sealant
Fabric Guard

Total Distributor Options: $1,031.00. I found this absolutely infuriating. But it was on every single one of them in my region and I got MSRP while others were paying $10k over sticker. The only way this will change is if all customers said no to this. And said no to dealer added option packages as well which is never going to happen because people get in that stealer and they want it. I refused all dealer add ons and told them the port add ons were infuriating enough. Any mandated dealer packages, keep the f'in thing. They relented. So I have 2 stealers now. 1 in state, and 1 out of state where my rural land is, where I can get trim/color/spec, and MSRP only but I can't do a got damn thing about the distributor add ons. And that goes for any Toyota model in the lineup. The port adds bs to every single vehicle they import.

[rexster]

I am not willing to put up with any of that crap. During Covid I did find a single toyota dealer nearby who was willing to sell me a car at msrp. But the wait was over a year. And they couldn’t fix the allocation problem where toyota builds the cars however they want. If/when I decide to get a twin I will simply order a brz the way I want it for invoice or close to it. And instead of getting a Camry I will probably get a civic. Toyota can suck it.

[dgoodhue]

I have a friend that worked as salesperson at Toyota dealership and he swore that you could not order a Toyota. He said that dealer would put in request for what you wanted and you were basically on a waiting list for the Toyota manufacture it. He moved out of state and I have not talk to him in 7-8 years.

It is interesting what Pre said and I do not doubt that. It sounds like for Toyota you are waiting for upto a year for your model to come in and at that point you can order it (assuming the dealer with work with you) For most Toyota's that are package, this probably isn't that big of a deal but something that it rarely produce most aren't going to wait for a full year plus the actual manufacturing time. It is a risk that Toyota could also in the next model year drop that combination and your at the mercy of price increases.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by rexster

I am not willing to put up with any of that crap. During Covid I did find a single toyota dealer nearby who was willing to sell me a car at msrp. But the wait was over a year. And they couldn’t fix the allocation problem where toyota builds the cars however they want. If/when I decide to get a twin I will simply order a brz the way I want it for invoice or close to it. And instead of getting a Camry I will probably get a civic. Toyota can suck it.

It’s not Toyota, it’s their stealers. And it’s in a big machine between the Toyota US regions (distributors) and stealers really. That would take legal changes to do anything about changing that machine or busting it up. Honda in my region is just as bad, if not worse. Every single stealer adds pin stripes, wheel locks, tint, lo jack, and I don’t remember what else. The port add ons are really not something you can fight unless you are in one of the few regions where that’s possible to do something about but you have to have a salesman or sales manager that you can trust and will fight. Here every type of stealer, I mean every vehicle company, US, German, Korean, or Japanese, the stealers add all this crap. Mandatory tint, lo jack, mandatory service packages, warranty packages. I mean it’s a mess. Most people must fall for it because it works most of the time. In 2019 when I bought my truck, it literally took me 3 months straight of telling a particular stealer “no”. I refused to buy it if I had to pay for dealer add ons. 3 months later they ate it all to sell it to me. 3 months of texts from a sales manager. I gave them my numbers for my trade in and what I’d take the new vehicle for. I didn’t budge a red cent and it took 3 months. I mean you can close on a house purchase in 30 days so what does that tell you about all this today? You have to be prepared to fight like hell and refuse any costs they add.

And what particular vehicle you are after must have context. If you’re after some limited deal, where few are produced, and you are wanting your way or invoice, best of luck with that. 90+% aren’t going to get it. Hell 99%. A Camry, Civic, some volume model, sure. Best of luck to you with performance anything, especially attainable or affordable performance anything. At attainable prices you are fighting with 18 year olds all the way to retirees to snag one. At that point you really have to know somebody. Joe Blow right off the street is f’d.

[Kostamojen]

I'd buy a Z over a Supra just to not have to deal with the **** show that Toyota dealers have been since the pandemic.

[dgoodhue]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/subarumedia...UKFJjefwFRQ%3D

WRX sales are up 34.2% for January 2025. This is the 4th consecutive month of sale increases.

On Autotrader, the new 2024 WRX inventory dropped by about 500 cars from 2900 to 2400.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

[Kostamojen]

Subarus sell better in the winter, plus there are MASSIVE discounts and great lease deals on 2024 WRX's. Inventory is also changing over to 2025 models soon so production isn't churning them out.

[Russ_G93]

We'll probably see some kind of price increase again for the big minor refresh. Hopefully we see the BMR for 2026. Would be a little funny to see the torque for USDM match 277ft lbs mark of the Japan only models

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Subarus sell better in the winter, plus there are MASSIVE discounts and great lease deals on 2024 WRX's. Inventory is also changing over to 2025 models soon so production isn't churning them out.

WRX's don't sell better in winter. They historically slow down in fall and winter outside of a new model launch.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Subarus sell better in the winter, plus there are MASSIVE discounts and great lease deals on 2024 WRX's. Inventory is also changing over to 2025 models soon so production isn't churning them out.

Which lends to the side the sales slipping is more about price than it is about looks, eh?

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

We'll probably see some kind of price increase again for the big minor refresh. Hopefully we see the BMR for 2026. Would be a little funny to see the torque for USDM match 277ft lbs mark of the Japan only models

Contradictory there a bit.


Perhaps BMC(Big Model Change)

[Brahmzy]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Which lends to the side the sales slipping is more about price than it is about looks, eh?

Oh no, it’s still about looks. Partially why sales slowed to begin with.

Your logic is flawed, as usual. We see past the propaganda. It doesn’t work. It has never worked.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Perhaps BMC(Big Model Change)

BMC means Big Minor Change

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Oh no, it’s still about looks. Partially why sales slowed to begin with.

Your logic is flawed, as usual. We see past the propaganda. It doesn’t work. It has never worked.

That's why it sold juust fine until the price started creeping up?

Originally Posted by SoDealer

BMC means Big Minor Change

Interesting since they don't say that at any of the trainings.

Question then. What does FMC stand for.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

That's why it sold juust fine until the price started creeping up?




Interesting since they don't say that at any of the trainings.

Question then. What does FMC stand for.

FMC = Full Model Change (all-new).

The 2022 WRX was "FMC" per the timeline.

Which helps to explain why BMC is Big Minor Change (facelift).

[Pre]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Question then. What does FMC stand for.

Wow man you work at a stealer too.

FMC, and MMC.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Pre

Wow man you work at a stealer too.

FMC, and MMC.

Guess you couldn't see past me trying to clarify something the trainers apparently have been telling us wrong for years. But you do have me on MMC cause I've never seen Subaru refer to that. Just BMC and FMC. And I apparently knew FMC. Was asking since I was getting BMC wrong.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Guess you couldn't see past me trying to clarify something the trainers apparently have been telling us wrong for years. But you do have me on MMC cause I've never seen Subaru refer to that. Just BMC and FMC. And I apparently knew FMC. Was asking since I was getting BMC wrong.

Subaru doesn't use MMC

BMC=Big Minor Change
FMC=Full Model Change

[AWDPilot]

I contributed to the January numbers, big discounts and low APR really helps move them

[chanomatik]

VB WRX looks haven't been as jarring to most people over time, especially when there are aesthetic fixes, even for the rear bumper.



My brain has toyed with the idea of owning one, but the asking price is too high for the quality of performance received. Would rather deal with my paid-off CVT Impreza hatchback.