Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday March 1, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2020, 07:45 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default BBS Wheels Has Filed for Bankruptcy

BBS Wheels Has Filed for Bankruptcy
BBS GmbH, the German wheel-maker responsible for supplying wheels for some of the most legendary carmakers on earth, filed for bankruptcy on Monday, per a statement on its website.

The move was a "necessary step to prevent an imminent insolvency within the coming months due to the sudden omission of confirmed payments," according to the statement. BBS cites the "tough market environment" caused by the coronavirus pandemic—along with the accompanying temporary shutdown of the company's two plants—as the main factors for its current situation.

BBS says prior to filing for its insolvency, the company "initiated an extensive turnaround strategy for the whole company," which it plans to continue following. It's been appointed two insolvency administrators, one of which played a part in restructuring the company after it filed for bankruptcy in 2011.

Considering BBS's influence on the car world over the years, we're hoping it can figure things out and get back to making iconic wheels for some of our favorite cars.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-21-2020, 11:24 AM   #2
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
18 Highlander
Yami XSR

Default

The pandemic is really amplifying financial issues, both personal and corporate. Companies that were a bit lackadaisical with their finances before the pandemic are really suffering. Same with individuals. Conversely, companies who were in good shape to weather the storm have been able to remain nimble and adapt to the market changes.

I've always liked BBS wheels, but could never justify the cost in putting them on any vehicle I've owned.
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 11:48 AM   #3
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default

2nd bankruptcy in 10 years? That's on you. You should have some money stashed. I marvel just a few months and all these companies filing Ch.11. Have you not heard of savings? I'm just some taxpayer who has gone through longer stretches with absolutely zero income, no unemployment, not a dime, and made it through it with my credit intact. I've done 11 months, 7 months, and 6 months. Then a bunch of smaller stints. I never filed Ch.11 or borrowed any money sans using plastic to get through all the various layoffs. 3-4 months and these companies are tits up. Crazy.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 12:17 PM   #4
BeepBoop
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 496462
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: MN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
3-4 months and these companies are tits up. Crazy.
Blame investors for wanting the biggest profits possible instead of wanting the company to be stable. Seems like now-a-days everyone just wants to burn hot and fast, trying to suck as much out of a company as possible before it goes belly-up.
BeepBoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 01:05 PM   #5
numskull50
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 373996
Join Date: Nov 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: clearwater fl
Vehicle:
2015 FXT Touring
Quartz Blue Pearl

Default

A lot of companies are doing it to restructure debt and renegotiate union contracts. Sometimes its just a management decision to file because it gives them an out to make changes they couldn't make during normal business. I have no knowledge of BBS financial position, but this could be a business decision rather than financial ruin.
numskull50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 02:19 PM   #6
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
** LP640
575M DMC-12

Default

Better time than ever for them to do this.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 02:35 PM   #7
rockthebox50
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 150034
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Vehicle:
2007 WRX & STI
SWP & Aspen White

Default

That'd be cool if they get bought out by another stable maker, revamp the company ect.
rockthebox50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 03:03 PM   #8
thill
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 377200
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere north of south
Vehicle:
20 Camaro SS1LE
Shadow Grey

Default

There are so many wheel companies out there now. It's just a very competitive market. BBS wheels don't seem as popular as they used to.

We will likely see many more companies either get absorbed or fail in this industry in the upcoming months. McLaren is on life support. FCA is a mess. Nissan. Mitsubishi. Etc, etc.
thill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 03:08 PM   #9
torquemada
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
2nd bankruptcy in 10 years? That's on you. You should have some money stashed. I marvel just a few months and all these companies filing Ch.11. Have you not heard of savings? I'm just some taxpayer who has gone through longer stretches with absolutely zero income, no unemployment, not a dime, and made it through it with my credit intact. I've done 11 months, 7 months, and 6 months. Then a bunch of smaller stints. I never filed Ch.11 or borrowed any money sans using plastic to get through all the various layoffs. 3-4 months and these companies are tits up. Crazy.
letīs be honest, itīs the third time after 2007 and 2011
torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 03:34 PM   #10
YungBoba
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 450808
Join Date: Jul 2016
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Irvine
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Premium
WR Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
There are so many wheel companies out there now. It's just a very competitive market. BBS wheels don't seem as popular as they used to.

We will likely see many more companies either get absorbed or fail in this industry in the upcoming months. McLaren is on life support. FCA is a mess. Nissan. Mitsubishi. Etc, etc.
It seems like very few people outside of hardcore stancebois or the Euro crowd are willing to pay the premium for BBS wheels. There are a ton of rep/knockoff companies which are very popular among car enthusiasts these days.

I am curious to see how much of their revenue comes from selling aftermarket wheels vs. OEM wheels though, as I know they are the OEM for quite a few popular models out there, i.e. the GTI.
YungBoba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 03:44 PM   #11
rustokman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 52778
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza WRX
Black

Default Dang

Makes me regret not salvaging the 2004 sti rims off of my old wrx when it was submerged and totaled in a flood.
rustokman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 03:44 PM   #12
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2020 X3M Competition

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by numskull50 View Post
A lot of companies are doing it to restructure debt and renegotiate union contracts. Sometimes its just a management decision to file because it gives them an out to make changes they couldn't make during normal business. I have no knowledge of BBS financial position, but this could be a business decision rather than financial ruin.
This is likely what they are doing but really they need to come out with some new wheel designs as their lineup is kind of dated IMO.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 04:14 PM   #13
SkrubbinBubb1es
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 511269
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Savannah, GA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX

Default

Wow, hopefully they get things straightened out. I have always loved the look BBS wheels.
SkrubbinBubb1es is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 04:37 PM   #14
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Mk7R 20Supra 20Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post

I've always liked BBS wheels, but could never justify the cost in putting them on any vehicle I've owned.

My Golf-R runs 19" CH-R's. Very cool and appropriate for my Golf.
Too bad they went belly up again.. I'm sure they'll be back in their game in no time.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 05:43 PM   #15
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
18 Highlander
Yami XSR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
2nd bankruptcy in 10 years? That's on you. You should have some money stashed. I marvel just a few months and all these companies filing Ch.11. Have you not heard of savings? I'm just some taxpayer who has gone through longer stretches with absolutely zero income, no unemployment, not a dime, and made it through it with my credit intact. I've done 11 months, 7 months, and 6 months. Then a bunch of smaller stints. I never filed Ch.11 or borrowed any money sans using plastic to get through all the various layoffs. 3-4 months and these companies are tits up. Crazy.
Do you often get into the finances of running a company? Keeping a load of cash on hand has large financial impacts... companies do not keep a year of operating costs in the bank. It's just not sustainable.

And reading the article, it specifically says "sudden omission of confirmed payments"... that's accounts receivable. Almost as good as cash. Sounds to me like maybe they are having a bigger issue with collecting money they're owed, rather than a poorly run company...
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 06:00 PM   #16
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
** LP640
575M DMC-12

Default

This likely goes beyond some aftermarket orders and most likely is a strategic measure so the company doesn't die with the changing financial landscape of the world economy.

BBS is world wide company that is an OE wheel supplier and motorsports supplier for MULTIPLE different applications. As we're all aware, car & motorsport sales are down - especially the luxury models BBS supplies, professional motorsports have been on halt and people aren't spending on things they don't need.

Further, the amount of money to keep this size of company operating is significant. If an OE cancelled an order, think about the amount of money that just went away from the loss of an order of 100k+ wheels ... and all the operating costs (people, machine loan payments, rent payments, materials on-hand, etc.) adding up will quickly take down a company who's balance sheet just had the income turn to 0.

It's also a great way to get out of underperforming contracts; lease agreements; loan agreements; dump machines that are not used; layoff unnecessary workers; close certain locations; stop supporting costly agreements; get some of those cancel orders fulfilled; etc.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 06:54 PM   #17
Hondaslayer
Visiting NASIOC Timeout
 
Member#: 4562
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Auburn, WA
Vehicle:
2014 Electric Datsun
2005 Adventure van

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Do you often get into the finances of running a company? Keeping a load of cash on hand has large financial impacts... companies do not keep a year of operating costs in the bank. It's just not sustainable.

And reading the article, it specifically says "sudden omission of confirmed payments"... that's accounts receivable. Almost as good as cash. Sounds to me like maybe they are having a bigger issue with collecting money they're owed, rather than a poorly run company...

:fingergunz:

It cuts doubly because those would be payments for completed products...
Hondaslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 09:34 PM   #18
Rimsky55
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 424917
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockthebox50 View Post
That'd be cool if they get bought out by another stable maker, revamp the company ect.



YHI would be the ideal buyer with a stalking horse bid. They already own "decent" brands like OZ, Sparco, Enkei, Advanti Racing, Konig, etc.

http://www.yhigroup.com/our-partners/alloy-wheels/
BBS would fit right in, and provide decent synergies in the distribution channel, material purchasing, and manufacturing capacity optimization.
Rimsky55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 01:18 PM   #19
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Mk7R 20Supra 20Forester

Default

YHI is a distributor and manufacturer for brands like OZ and Enkei, but do they actually own majority share of these companies you listed?
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 02:27 PM   #20
Rimsky55
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 424917
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
YHI is a distributor and manufacturer for brands like OZ and Enkei, but do they actually own majority share of these companies you listed?

Not majority, but are definite shareholders (pg 35 of annual report or 37/155 of the pdf). Depending on how bad BBS's financial situation is, all they may need is a minority equity injection (and some debt forgiveness resulting in banks also owning some equity) to keep BBS running afloat.

http://www.yhigroup.com/investor/ann...annual-report/


OZ 35.5% ownership
Advanti Racing 90% ownership
Konig 95% ownership
Produces all Enkei Tuning wheels (pg 25)
Couldn't find the relationship with Sparco, but I assume they do the manufacturing for them.
Rimsky55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 03:24 PM   #21
arghx7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232940
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cold
Default

in general I don't like the look of BBS wheels, with the original 04-05 STi wheels being an exception.

Projected production volumes are down for the next few years at least, and unemployment has I'm sure hurt the aftermarket. It's not a surprise BBS got hit.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 03:39 PM   #22
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Mk7R 20Supra 20Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimsky55 View Post
Not majority, but are definite shareholders (pg 35 of annual report or 37/155 of the pdf). Depending on how bad BBS's financial situation is, all they may need is a minority equity injection (and some debt forgiveness resulting in banks also owning some equity) to keep BBS running afloat.

http://www.yhigroup.com/investor/ann...annual-report/


OZ 35.5% ownership
Advanti Racing 90% ownership
Konig 95% ownership
Produces all Enkei Tuning wheels (pg 25)
Couldn't find the relationship with Sparco, but I assume they do the manufacturing for them.
Cool, thanks for the info and link. Will check it out.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 05:40 PM   #23
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Do you often get into the finances of running a company? Keeping a load of cash on hand has large financial impacts... companies do not keep a year of operating costs in the bank. It's just not sustainable.

Sure do. 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week buddy. Well into the 8 figures I'm responsible for annually. The company I work has to keep 10 figures in the bank, it's a requirement. So yes. And I don't work for a bank or in the banking industry before you ask.



I also used to run my own businesses. I often ran into economic downturns, and I definitely had stretches of months I operated at major losses. I never filed Ch.11 and each business was incorporated.



A whole year of this, yeah I get that. But I've gone through this on my own, as a working stiff, as a business owner, and I've got a few degrees in what I do. You can't keep your company rolling for a stretch like this or you keep filing bankruptcy, maybe you need to send your upper level management back to uni or something. Or just close up shop.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 09:08 PM   #24
SoapBox
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: I'll see myself out
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkrubbinBubb1es View Post
Wow, hopefully they get things straightened out.
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 09:11 PM   #25
SoapBox
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: I'll see myself out
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Sure do. 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week buddy. Well into the 8 figures I'm responsible for annually. The company I work has to keep 10 figures in the bank, it's a requirement. So yes. And I don't work for a bank or in the banking industry before you ask.



I also used to run my own businesses. I often ran into economic downturns, and I definitely had stretches of months I operated at major losses. I never filed Ch.11 and each business was incorporated.



A whole year of this, yeah I get that. But I've gone through this on my own, as a working stiff, as a business owner, and I've got a few degrees in what I do. You can't keep your company rolling for a stretch like this or you keep filing bankruptcy, maybe you need to send your upper level management back to uni or something. Or just close up shop.
I know it's been said...but it's not fair to assume they can't keep it going. As stated in the article, they are not insolvent, yet.

If the chapter 11 laws allow them an out before going "tits up", as we can see, companies will take it before they absolutely need to. Depending on the circumstances, it's the "smart" thing to do. This is especially true considering the completely unpredictable future. They can save themselves loads of cash y doing it now, vs. waiting it out for a turn-around that may not come soon enough.

Once a company gets to be a certain size, pride, scruples, etc. go out the window.
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.