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Old 05-23-2019, 07:04 AM   #26
notquiteanewbie
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Also OP, Recaroís on a WRX Limited will not cannibalize a base STI. STI and WRX might look the same to normal folks, but they are two completely different cars.
I guess that's the point I'm making though. If it's hard for normal folks to differentiate why would they spend more on the STI?

I think the next version of the STI needs to be even more differentiated. Add 50hp and a different interior, but keep it at the same $36k starting price. The Type RA and s209 are good experiment to test the waters.
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:51 PM   #27
oichan
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Originally Posted by notquiteanewbie View Post
I guess that's the point I'm making though. If it's hard for normal folks to differentiate why would they spend more on the STI?

I think the next version of the STI needs to be even more differentiated. Add 50hp and a different interior, but keep it at the same $36k starting price. The Type RA and s209 are good experiment to test the waters.
I think that’s where your Bimmer douchness (just a stereotype) comes into play.
I don’t care what others think. I own both STI and WRX and confuses the hell out of my Indian neighbors down the street for buying “two of the exactly same cars”. LOL.

The current STI and WRX are extremely different cars. There is no need to make them look apart. VW thought the same. Golf-R looks the same as a GTI and regular Golf. Use as much common parts to concentrate the limited funds on the real differences to set them apart in the driving characteristics.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:27 PM   #28
notquiteanewbie
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I think thatís where your Bimmer douchness (just a stereotype) comes into play.
I donít care what others think. I own both STI and WRX and confuses the hell out of my Indian neighbors down the street for buying ďtwo of the exactly same carsĒ. LOL.
Not sure how I became a douche in all this.. It's pretty important what the average Joe thinks because it drives the bottom line and economics of the entire industry and for each manufacturer. Subaru's decision to defer the STI moving to global platform says a lot about where their priority for investing is. Just the same as Toyota using a BMW engine and drivetrain in the Supra. The industry is changing quickly.

Additionally as you're aware the GTI and Golf R have different drivetrains, FWD vs AWD. So there is definite and notable difference between those cars that's easy for the average Joe to understand. I think a better comparison for the WRX and STI would be the 718 Cayman vs Cayman S.

In any event this BMW douche may be a Subaru owner soon so hopefully if we disagree on this we can at least agree that we're at the end of an era and should enjoy these cars while we can.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:53 PM   #29
jasonwrx86
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No one is denying the WRX and STi are very different cars. Same as the BMW M440i is very different from the M4.
It all depends on what you are looking for. If it's worth the extra money for the difference.
If you are just gonna use the car as commuting, the difference in performance might not be that noticeable.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:06 PM   #30
SuBrewSTI
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I've gone through the wringer in regards to owning vehicles from Bimmers to Subies, to Jeeps, to fords and hondas. The one thing I can tell you without a doubt is that the STI will check all the boxes in one way or another. It's certainly not the BEST in any one area, but it excels in all areas at a respectable level. If you treat this platform correctly and maintain it, which I have no reservations that you will based on your previously owned cars, it will always be there for you.

I understand that you're very particular in what you want and need in a vehicle, even all the way down to the small stuff. But I'm confident in saying that the STI will be something you thoroughly enjoy and are proud to own. I loved my S4, I loved my Dinan M5, I loved my older AMGs, and I thoroughly enjoyed my 370hp GTI. But none of them gave me the childish **** eating grin that my STI does. I can tote my 2 kids with ease, fill it with groceries or my guns and ammo for range days, and I can take it out on weekends and hurt feelings of the younger kids in all their sports coupes.

I think you'll enjoy the STI and be immensely satisfied with your purchase when you get to put in the seat time and see how versatile they truly are.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by notquiteanewbie View Post
Not sure how I became a douche in all this.. It's pretty important what the average Joe thinks because it drives the bottom line and economics of the entire industry and for each manufacturer. Subaru's decision to defer the STI moving to global platform says a lot about where their priority for investing is. Just the same as Toyota using a BMW engine and drivetrain in the Supra. The industry is changing quickly.

Additionally as you're aware the GTI and Golf R have different drivetrains, FWD vs AWD. So there is definite and notable difference between those cars that's easy for the average Joe to understand. I think a better comparison for the WRX and STI would be the 718 Cayman vs Cayman S.

In any event this BMW douche may be a Subaru owner soon so hopefully if we disagree on this we can at least agree that we're at the end of an era and should enjoy these cars while we can.
Iím not calling you a douch. I am just saying Bimmer folks typically want the status to think they are better than others by looking impressive than a base model or standard car. Iím perfectly fine my STI looks like my WRX. Everything else on the car is so different.. itís all about the driving dynamic of these cars. I think youíll come to love it too. Welcome to our world.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:38 PM   #32
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I've gone through the wringer in regards to owning vehicles from Bimmers to Subies, to Jeeps, to fords and hondas. The one thing I can tell you without a doubt is that the STI will check all the boxes in one way or another. It's certainly not the BEST in any one area, but it excels in all areas at a respectable level. If you treat this platform correctly and maintain it, which I have no reservations that you will based on your previously owned cars, it will always be there for you.

I understand that you're very particular in what you want and need in a vehicle, even all the way down to the small stuff. But I'm confident in saying that the STI will be something you thoroughly enjoy and are proud to own. I loved my S4, I loved my Dinan M5, I loved my older AMGs, and I thoroughly enjoyed my 370hp GTI. But none of them gave me the childish **** eating grin that my STI does. I can tote my 2 kids with ease, fill it with groceries or my guns and ammo for range days, and I can take it out on weekends and hurt feelings of the younger kids in all their sports coupes.

I think you'll enjoy the STI and be immensely satisfied with your purchase when you get to put in the seat time and see how versatile they truly are.
Thanks! This is great to hear

Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan
Iím not calling you a douch. I am just saying Bimmer folks typically want the status to think they are better than others by looking impressive than a base model or standard car. Iím perfectly fine my STI looks like my WRX. Everything else on the car is so different.. itís all about the driving dynamic of these cars. I think youíll come to love it too. Welcome to our world.
All good. The M3 was always my dream car ever since I was kid. My dad had a couple old school 80's 535is and 635csi that he restored. I'm also hooked on HPDE Track Days now so the M3 was appropriate up until my twin boys arrived.

Last stupid question. When is model year change over to 2020? June / July?

I'm thinking if I wait a month or two put in a special order maybe I'll get one of the first 2020's. Otherwise I'll just aim to get a discounted 2019.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:07 PM   #33
oichan
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Yeah, I bought the first 2019 last July my area got.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:14 PM   #34
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Great reply.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:48 PM   #35
simpleJ
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Originally Posted by notquiteanewbie View Post
Additionally as you're aware the GTI and Golf R have different drivetrains, FWD vs AWD. So there is definite and notable difference between those cars that's easy for the average Joe to understand. I think a better comparison for the WRX and STI would be the 718 Cayman vs Cayman S.

Based on this statement alone you will not be happy in an STi, you won’t “get” it. You won’t appreciate all the nuance of what you get. If you buy one it will be gone with in 2 years like the rest of them. If you tune the engine Have 10k on hand for a rebuild

The wrx is basically a sportier Impreza with some other platform tweaks to get a solid and fun product.
The sti is an ENTIRELY different drivetrain and handles VERY different. I’ve spun my sti at autox, never even came close to that in my wrx.

Additionally the sti is 18k worth of 2012 Impreza riding on 18k worth of drivetrain... can you handle that after driving luxury cars?

If you have to ask yourself if you’d be happy, you wouldn’t be, end.

Determine the depreciation you’d lose on your bmw by selling it and put that into buying a winter beater or get a nice reliable family car and buy a Miata for track use if you do lots of hpde.

Used S3 would also fit your budget and needs in the CPO range.

Last edited by simpleJ; 05-23-2019 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:49 AM   #36
notquiteanewbie
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Based on this statement alone you will not be happy in an STi, you wonít ďgetĒ it. You wonít appreciate all the nuance of what you get. If you buy one it will be gone with in 2 years like the rest of them. If you tune the engine Have 10k on hand for a rebuild

The wrx is basically a sportier Impreza with some other platform tweaks to get a solid and fun product.
The sti is an ENTIRELY different drivetrain and handles VERY different. Iíve spun my sti at autox, never even came close to that in my wrx.

Additionally the sti is 18k worth of 2012 Impreza riding on 18k worth of drivetrain... can you handle that after driving luxury cars?

If you have to ask yourself if youíd be happy, you wouldnít be, end.

Determine the depreciation youíd lose on your bmw by selling it and put that into buying a winter beater or get a nice reliable family car and buy a Miata for track use if you do lots of hpde.

Used S3 would also fit your budget and needs in the CPO range.


Oh man tough crowd in here.

So

1. I compared the WRX and STI to the 718 Cayman and Cayman S because to the average Joe there are in fact a lot of similarities. I've driven both of those cars back to back as well. About a 50hp difference between those cars, different engines, the base Cayman with the 2.0 vs Cayman S with the 2.5, brake upgrade standard in the Cayman S and other performance goodies. I certainly have a lot to learn about Subaru's however comparisons help as a starting point for the uninitiated. Cayman and Cayman S are very different cars as well with different driving characteristics.

2. As far as my luxury car history. Growing up my car circle just happened to be german focused, my car selection has always prioritized sporty and fun first (with the exception of the Jetta) and convenience second. These late model Subaru's certainly have a nice interior so this isn't a concern for me. Not all BMW drivers are pretentious.

3. The nuance of the STI. This is exactly why I'm here asking these questions. The 15 minute test drive certainly doesn't really allow one to experience what the STI is capable of. I've seen the characteristics that you describe on video regarding oversteer in the STI and that's appealing to me. I typically only hear of Subaru's pushing around corners so clearly when driven correctly the reward is there.

4. I've done the math and ran through all the scenarios. Priority number 1 is still to keep my car. However all in, the STI represents a significant savings compared to the M (even when factoring in depreciation, I didn't buy the M new) over the expected lifetime I would have it.

5. I don't want an S3. I considered it, not for me.

One thing to re-iterate, my past car history represents point in time requirements. My twin boys are helping to shape new requirements, and among those I appreciate the get in and go nature of a Subaru. The ability to drive on a dirt road and experience the outdoors and not be worried about rocks tearing up my undercarriage is pretty appealing now.
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