Can anyone help me out !!!!??? The s-afc wiring is crazy...

motorswapsleeper · 09-03-2003, 02:08 AM

I have a 1997 legacy 2.2
Is there anyone who knows how to wire this this up?!
I have allready checked the forums...

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ciper · 09-03-2003, 08:22 PM

Get the service manual for your car. This is the real sure fire way to get it right.

How do you plan to adjust the low/high throttle setting? I couldnt find any concrete information on when exactly the switch from closed and open loop takes place so I planned to have the correction functions only applied to 95%+ throttle.

motorswapsleeper · 09-03-2003, 11:58 PM

I didn't even know about this issue, could you explain it a bit more in detail for me?
Maybe we should make a post about it...

ciper · 09-04-2003, 03:52 PM

The issue is that you shouldnt apply the correction with the interpolation to the low throttle operation of the car. The ECU will learn around these and it negate the effects and screw up tuning of the open loop tuning. The other problem is that since this is an interpolated setting it will change EVERY fuel map that has been learned across the RPM band whenever a change is made.

The best thing to do is to set the AFC to not change anything below xx% throttle. XX being the point that it changes to open loop. Since nobody knows for sure when this takes place 95% throttle seems to be a safe way.

I need some verification, but it looks like Ill have to experiment myself. As you probably know the AC compressor is disabled at WOT. There are two ways this can happen, either the ECU turns off the compressor at open loop OR the IDLE switch is activated at both 0 throttle and 100% throttle.
If its the prior you can use this along with the gauge readout on the AFC for throttle opening to determine the point.

Im not connecting the S-AFC until my turbo swap engine is completly refreshed and I have my EGT and A/F gauges installed. Someone else might be able to help.

BTW, dont listen to the people who say that an AFC has no function or will be disabled, they dont know what they are talking about.

MY99 2.5GT · 09-05-2003, 10:45 AM

I may have an inside Subaru Tech with access to their ECU scanner that we may be able to find out exactly what throttle position switchover happens. Let me call him and find out if the scanner can do this.

I just bought a used S-AFC and was wonder if us Mass Airflow cars get much result from it. I just installed a straight pipe in place of my stock cats and am having a hard time getting the car to even backfire. I have hear people talk about how accurate our fuel management systems are compared to the nasty rich MAP based ecus.

I hadn't read about the closed loop Low TPS function messing things up. So your saying set the afc to 0 adjustment in the low TPS programming area?

Brad

ciper · 09-05-2003, 05:53 PM

I will have to look up the notes I created for the tuning of my AFC but If I remember right:

94% throttle is low
95% throttle is high
Make changes only to high throttle settings

What this does is disable interpolation between the two throttle position points, leaving the ECU to learn and tune properly for normal driving. The interpolation between each RPM incrament still functions.

"So your saying set the afc to 0 adjustment in the low TPS programming area?" Yes, but set the low throttle setting for very high on the range.

motorswapsleeper · 09-05-2003, 09:12 PM

Interesting, ciper...
Wait I have a 1997 legacy am I map or maf? I always thought I was maf...

I will hopefully be able to get the car to turn over for the first time with it's new motor tomorrow...
Any other notes?

And any suggestions on the s-itc tuning? Most have said get the car running with the safc first, then install and tune. How much advance or retard should I do?
How soon should it be intruduced, since the ecu seems to learn?
Sory so many questions but this is helping A LOT!

jkyes · 09-05-2003, 10:28 PM

97 should be a MAF

subiekid · 09-05-2003, 11:46 PM

stock motor with stock ecu? then you should not need to mess with timing, only if you added a turbo. yes you can add fuel at wot and get a bit more power but itsnot going to makemuch of a difference.

and be warned. get your safc from a certified dealer. got mine off ebay ( thought i would save a 100 bucks) well now 6 months later its dead, and i know about 6 other guys who have had them last about that long. they are crap for quality. get the dealer warenty.

you dont have to hook all of the wires up. you can run it just for the maf signal power/ground/ rpm/ but it will not be as effective and can lead to it blowing up.

motorswapsleeper · 09-06-2003, 02:33 AM

Hey subie kid!
The reasons I even bought all of this is due to the ej20t swap I am almost done with. The reason I asked for the 2.2 ecu is that is what I am running the swap on.
Didn't know that about the safc...what exactly is breaking?

subiekid · 09-06-2003, 07:48 PM

they just burn up all the time. it blows. dont run high boost, or you will blow the motor. i did this and ran an ej22T off of an ecu for a 95 ej22. it did not idle but other then that it ran ok. get a unichip or some sort of stand alone within the next 6 months.

motorswapsleeper · 09-07-2003, 11:48 AM

So they don't work? That isn't what everyone has been saying...and how moch boost is "a lot" how much should I run it at considering I have the timing controll also?
Does the unichip work with my car on the stock ecu?
How much does it cost?

subiekid · 09-07-2003, 08:03 PM

the safc will work, but the DIE all of the sudden and leave you stranded on the side of the road. yea you do have the timing issue delt with ( just a bit) but i would still not run more then 8 psi. yea if you had it properly tuned with the safc and sitc then you might be able to run more, but you are risking that nice new motor that you put in when you do that.

unichips range in price, used ones go on here for about 100 to 150, but i was told the wrx unichip will not work on other cars, so ya might wnat to do some research. bad thing is, you cannot tune it unless you spend 1200 dollars for the dealar package, and well you cant get that if you are just some average joe.

a unichip will work with your existing ecu and do what the safc and itc do but only better. the safc has 8 points to adjust fuel, the itc has about that many for timing. the unichip has something like 400 points where timing and fuel can be set. get a unichip have it dyno tuned and you are set. if the wrx will work then 100 for it plus 60 for an install and about 200 for tuning.

motorswapsleeper · 09-07-2003, 08:14 PM

That is bad news...I have the wrx wastegate...isn't it's lowest setting like 12 psi?

subiekid · 09-08-2003, 01:32 AM

ask around, you might be able to get by but you would hvae to have good tuning. ask over inthe aftermarket forced inductoin forum. those rs-t guys know the limits very well.

some know from blowing up their motors, so its hands on material.

ciper · 09-08-2003, 08:20 PM

motorswapsleeper:S-ITC seems to be incompatible with most subaru ECU it has been tried on. You will always get a misfire cel. I had one but I sold it because I could find no one to help me with it. Maybe you can find a work around!

Dont know what type of air sensor your car has

I suggest trying to get the car to run with as little add on parts as possible. I didnt realize you were installing a turbo motor. Not sure how to tune it to start.

Do you have an EGT already?

09-03-2003, 02:08 AM	#1
motorswapsleeper Scooby Specialist Member#: 38946 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yay...IRAQ...yay... Vehicle: 199? 6 diff ones bag o' skittles	Can anyone help me out !!!!??? The s-afc wiring is crazy... I have a 1997 legacy 2.2 Is there anyone who knows how to wire this this up?! I have allready checked the forums... * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

09-07-2003, 11:48 AM	#12
motorswapsleeper Scooby Specialist Member#: 38946 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yay...IRAQ...yay... Vehicle: 199? 6 diff ones bag o' skittles	So they don't work? That isn't what everyone has been saying...and how moch boost is "a lot" how much should I run it at considering I have the timing controll also? Does the unichip work with my car on the stock ecu? How much does it cost? Last edited by motorswapsleeper; 09-07-2003 at 11:55 AM.

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09-03-2003, 08:22 PM	#2
ciper Scooby Guru Member#: 15543 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: san francisco, ca Vehicle: 90BJ Legacy LS ABS AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built	Get the service manual for your car. This is the real sure fire way to get it right. How do you plan to adjust the low/high throttle setting? I couldnt find any concrete information on when exactly the switch from closed and open loop takes place so I planned to have the correction functions only applied to 95%+ throttle.

09-03-2003, 11:58 PM	#3
motorswapsleeper Scooby Specialist Member#: 38946 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yay...IRAQ...yay... Vehicle: 199? 6 diff ones bag o' skittles	I didn't even know about this issue, could you explain it a bit more in detail for me? Maybe we should make a post about it...

09-04-2003, 03:52 PM	#4
ciper Scooby Guru Member#: 15543 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: san francisco, ca Vehicle: 90BJ Legacy LS ABS AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built	The issue is that you shouldnt apply the correction with the interpolation to the low throttle operation of the car. The ECU will learn around these and it negate the effects and screw up tuning of the open loop tuning. The other problem is that since this is an interpolated setting it will change EVERY fuel map that has been learned across the RPM band whenever a change is made. The best thing to do is to set the AFC to not change anything below xx% throttle. XX being the point that it changes to open loop. Since nobody knows for sure when this takes place 95% throttle seems to be a safe way. I need some verification, but it looks like Ill have to experiment myself. As you probably know the AC compressor is disabled at WOT. There are two ways this can happen, either the ECU turns off the compressor at open loop OR the IDLE switch is activated at both 0 throttle and 100% throttle. If its the prior you can use this along with the gauge readout on the AFC for throttle opening to determine the point. Im not connecting the S-AFC until my turbo swap engine is completly refreshed and I have my EGT and A/F gauges installed. Someone else might be able to help. BTW, dont listen to the people who say that an AFC has no function or will be disabled, they dont know what they are talking about.

09-05-2003, 10:45 AM	#5
MY99 2.5GT Scooby Specialist Member#: 5030 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Martinsburg, WV, USA Vehicle: 1999 Legacy 2.5GT 19 Audi RS3, 13 Armada	I may have an inside Subaru Tech with access to their ECU scanner that we may be able to find out exactly what throttle position switchover happens. Let me call him and find out if the scanner can do this. I just bought a used S-AFC and was wonder if us Mass Airflow cars get much result from it. I just installed a straight pipe in place of my stock cats and am having a hard time getting the car to even backfire. I have hear people talk about how accurate our fuel management systems are compared to the nasty rich MAP based ecus. I hadn't read about the closed loop Low TPS function messing things up. So your saying set the afc to 0 adjustment in the low TPS programming area? Brad

09-05-2003, 05:53 PM	#6
ciper Scooby Guru Member#: 15543 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: san francisco, ca Vehicle: 90BJ Legacy LS ABS AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built	I will have to look up the notes I created for the tuning of my AFC but If I remember right: 94% throttle is low 95% throttle is high Make changes only to high throttle settings What this does is disable interpolation between the two throttle position points, leaving the ECU to learn and tune properly for normal driving. The interpolation between each RPM incrament still functions. "So your saying set the afc to 0 adjustment in the low TPS programming area?" Yes, but set the low throttle setting for very high on the range.

09-05-2003, 09:12 PM	#7
motorswapsleeper Scooby Specialist Member#: 38946 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yay...IRAQ...yay... Vehicle: 199? 6 diff ones bag o' skittles	Interesting, ciper... Wait I have a 1997 legacy am I map or maf? I always thought I was maf... I will hopefully be able to get the car to turn over for the first time with it's new motor tomorrow... Any other notes? And any suggestions on the s-itc tuning? Most have said get the car running with the safc first, then install and tune. How much advance or retard should I do? How soon should it be intruduced, since the ecu seems to learn? Sory so many questions but this is helping A LOT!

09-05-2003, 10:28 PM	#8
jkyes Scooby Newbie Member#: 707 Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: cottage grove, mn, usa Vehicle: 99 Legacy GT Quick silver	97 should be a MAF

09-05-2003, 11:46 PM	#9
subiekid Scooby Guru Member#: 25516 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Send help, stuck in internet! Vehicle: 1995 Legacy TURBO!!! EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic	stock motor with stock ecu? then you should not need to mess with timing, only if you added a turbo. yes you can add fuel at wot and get a bit more power but itsnot going to makemuch of a difference. and be warned. get your safc from a certified dealer. got mine off ebay ( thought i would save a 100 bucks) well now 6 months later its dead, and i know about 6 other guys who have had them last about that long. they are crap for quality. get the dealer warenty. you dont have to hook all of the wires up. you can run it just for the maf signal power/ground/ rpm/ but it will not be as effective and can lead to it blowing up.

09-06-2003, 02:33 AM	#10
motorswapsleeper Scooby Specialist Member#: 38946 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yay...IRAQ...yay... Vehicle: 199? 6 diff ones bag o' skittles	Hey subie kid! The reasons I even bought all of this is due to the ej20t swap I am almost done with. The reason I asked for the 2.2 ecu is that is what I am running the swap on. Didn't know that about the safc...what exactly is breaking?

09-06-2003, 07:48 PM	#11
subiekid Scooby Guru Member#: 25516 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Send help, stuck in internet! Vehicle: 1995 Legacy TURBO!!! EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic	they just burn up all the time. it blows. dont run high boost, or you will blow the motor. i did this and ran an ej22T off of an ecu for a 95 ej22. it did not idle but other then that it ran ok. get a unichip or some sort of stand alone within the next 6 months.

09-07-2003, 08:03 PM	#13
subiekid Scooby Guru Member#: 25516 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Send help, stuck in internet! Vehicle: 1995 Legacy TURBO!!! EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic	the safc will work, but the DIE all of the sudden and leave you stranded on the side of the road. yea you do have the timing issue delt with ( just a bit) but i would still not run more then 8 psi. yea if you had it properly tuned with the safc and sitc then you might be able to run more, but you are risking that nice new motor that you put in when you do that. unichips range in price, used ones go on here for about 100 to 150, but i was told the wrx unichip will not work on other cars, so ya might wnat to do some research. bad thing is, you cannot tune it unless you spend 1200 dollars for the dealar package, and well you cant get that if you are just some average joe. a unichip will work with your existing ecu and do what the safc and itc do but only better. the safc has 8 points to adjust fuel, the itc has about that many for timing. the unichip has something like 400 points where timing and fuel can be set. get a unichip have it dyno tuned and you are set. if the wrx will work then 100 for it plus 60 for an install and about 200 for tuning.

09-07-2003, 08:14 PM	#14
motorswapsleeper Scooby Specialist Member#: 38946 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yay...IRAQ...yay... Vehicle: 199? 6 diff ones bag o' skittles	That is bad news...I have the wrx wastegate...isn't it's lowest setting like 12 psi?

09-08-2003, 01:32 AM	#15
subiekid Scooby Guru Member#: 25516 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Send help, stuck in internet! Vehicle: 1995 Legacy TURBO!!! EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic	ask around, you might be able to get by but you would hvae to have good tuning. ask over inthe aftermarket forced inductoin forum. those rs-t guys know the limits very well. some know from blowing up their motors, so its hands on material.

09-08-2003, 08:20 PM	#16
ciper Scooby Guru Member#: 15543 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: san francisco, ca Vehicle: 90BJ Legacy LS ABS AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built	motorswapsleeper:S-ITC seems to be incompatible with most subaru ECU it has been tried on. You will always get a misfire cel. I had one but I sold it because I could find no one to help me with it. Maybe you can find a work around! Dont know what type of air sensor your car has I suggest trying to get the car to run with as little add on parts as possible. I didnt realize you were installing a turbo motor. Not sure how to tune it to start. Do you have an EGT already?