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Old 06-05-2013, 02:01 PM   #1
Crawlerado
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Default Grimmspeed TMIC, Splitter and Y-pipe - my experience

Let me preface this by stating that I race for GS under the contingency program in SCCA Solo events. I had LOTS of GS parts before the TMIC kit came along, but given the relatively new nature of the part I wanted to share my experience as fully as possible. I purchased the TMIC, Splitter and y-pipe kit under the group buy.

Here's what came in the box.
Nice thick gaskets, might combat the "sweat" that I've had in the past:
http://i.imgur.com/FMy7DEg.jpg

Hardware and hoses:
http://i.imgur.com/L5lOhh2.jpg

The TMIC:



Some quick comparisons:
Stock WRX TMIC Ė 8lbs Ė 6x16x3 Ė 288 cubic inches
Stock 05 STI TMIC Ė 9.5lbs Ė 18.5x7x3 Ė 388.5
GS TMIC Ė 19.5lbs Ė 18.875x7x3.75 Ė 495.47

http://i.imgur.com/GNymy3A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dYWU1bS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fqzGmjG.jpg

If youíre the road biker type that chases grams, this isnít the TMIC for you. At almost double the weight of an STI TMIC you will be adding almost 11lbs up high and behind the axle. Iím not worried about it.

TMIC packaging was very nice. No damage, not a scuff, scratch dent, nothing at all. Hardware is all top notch. Included gaskets are nice though the bolts included are 13mm, so find that bastard socket in your box. The t-bolts are all 10mm so thatís nice (one was a Ďstandardí 11mm nut but more on that later). The die-cut stencil is very nice too. Easy application to church it up with whatever color scheme you have going, for my car its red. (Note: I didn't clean or scuff the cooler and the paint didnít take along the edges, so lesson learned)

Paint:
http://i.imgur.com/NMEVQEE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bCsh3O9.jpg

The splitter was also packaged amazingly well with nice foam inserts and a form fitting box to combat even the most ham fisted FedEx guy. The laser etched plaque on the splitter was an unexpected and professional touch. The GS splitter has a lower profile than stock, but it would appear to me that it makes much better use of the area under the scoop being a bit further back. NowÖ the rubber seal that comes with is a royal PITA to install. I suggest figuring out the orientation of the holes first. For mine the split was on the driverís side, short side of the splitter and in the middle. Start on the angled part of the scoop first and push the snaps from the inside out. I did it the other way and had to take it all apart. The double stick tape wasnít wonderful, most of it was dried out and missing the backing. Also, a few of the holes in the rubber were very close to the edge and ran the risk of tearing out, time will tell how this stands up to wind and heat, I have a feeling Iíll be pulling this off and finding a better sealing solution. With the hood shut the seal is firm against the TMIC but kind of random each time, bowing out this way and that. The rest of the splitter installation is straight forward, standard RnR.

http://i.imgur.com/i7fv5sF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LDTILdL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RzDLRmA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Q2AvreG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/crNAPlj.jpg

Installation of the TMIC was pretty straight forward. The BOV hose didnít fit perfect, it was a little loose on my Perrin intake hose and VERY tight on the OEM BOV, a little silicone spray and muscle solved that. The y-pipe was a bit of an issue. Mine came with a variety of t-bolt clamps. The 51/59s I used on the bottom side, the silicone was a bit short, both clamps were right on the edge, no big deal with quality t-bolts tightened properly. I used the Ďstandardí 200mm min 11mm clamp on the 90 on the y side, which left me with one 47/56 and another 51/59. Now Iím running a TD04 so I went with the smaller of the two for the turbo side. The 90 was one of the easiest Iíve ever installed, leaps over the crap plastic ones, the red STI ones and even my Samco. Went right on. The large fit-all ID I would suspect is the reason, make sure you get the clamp on tight to take up that extra space if youíre running a stock turbo.
Side note, with the stock STI TMIC, cast elbows and a Samco y-pipe I weighed it at 11.75lbs. The GS with the elbows, silicone and t-bolts was 22.25lbs. So if youíre chasing lbs this might not be the TMIC for you. Iím more interested in how it does at Solo events where we only have minute runs and heat soak is an issue. Iím hoping the added surface and mass will slow that over a run and allow the unit to cool the charge more effectively even with minimal airflow. But I digress.
Iím not a fan of the rubber hose with t-junction that replaces the factory hard breather lines, looks cheap and doesnít really fit nice in the engine bay, minor I know. I chose to route it over the top and straight to the driverís side breather. In the end it didnít look too bad and gave it that ďsome race parts come from Home DepotĒ feel.









Iíll also suggest that if you need to check/change your trans fluid not would be a good time. For grins I removed the TMIC after install was completed and itís a bit more involved than my STI cooler, BUT this thing is HUGE so thatís to be expected, but it does take about twice as long.

While I had this all apart I also upgraded my Invidia divorced DP with a new GS DPÖ. Holy crap is this a sexy part. Now this is DP number 6 on this car and I must say, best fit and finish ever. The extra bung for a wideband is awesome, the material is nice and thick. And Iíve never been able to get a socket on the lower bolt until now, very nice work. The one slight issue I had is that since the gasket is so thick and the flange is also so thick one of my studs was a bit short and Iím guessing Iíll have issues with losing that nut after a while, very minor.

http://i.imgur.com/b78aopv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SYViuAq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1xOl6oO.jpg

Dyno appt is scheduled for 2pm this Friday so stay tuned and weíll see just what the DP and TMIC did for my power!!

Sorry for all the clicky clicky links, I was limited to 10 pictures so I chose the best IMO. Link to the album if you'd rather just click once - http://imgur.com/a/lJeUt#23
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Last edited by Crawlerado; 06-12-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:55 AM   #2
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Was debating dropping money for a process west but I'm curious to see about this product as hopefully more reviews come in!
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banggerr View Post
Was debating dropping money for a process west but I'm curious to see about this product as hopefully more reviews come in!
The numbers won't lie! I'll update this tomorrow as soon as it's on the rollers.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:58 AM   #4
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Well the results are in and to say I am disappointed would be an understatement. Now I will say that I did make a rather large mistake, and that was replacing TWO parts at once, this is a big professional tuning faux pa. I'm unsure which of the two new parts did this, but one or both robbed me of 2psi and 30ft/lbs.

Now, we triple checked the calibrations and the correction factors. We haven't switched fuels or anything else. The only changes to the car were the downpipe and the TMIC. First pull was scary, the car barely ran. The map was looking for the 18-20psi I normally run only to find less than 14. Once the boost was turned back up (as high as the turbo would go) we were still nowhere near my previous numbers. Timing helped a little but in the end the HP was statistically the same and I LOST 30 ft/lbs. We were never able to get my boost levels back to pre-TIMC/DP levels. One of these two parts is killing my boost levels. In the end I spent a decent amount of time and money to lose power. No bueno.

Another thing I noticed, when cruising at freeway speeds my IATs were only 10 or so degrees above ambient which is GREAT, now when I came to a stop (as often happens traveling from C-Springs to Denver) I saw IATs as high as 175 degrees!! Way above what I ever saw with my STI TMIC. To add to it, the "seal" for the splitter has almost completely failed, it's now a wadded up pile of rubber jammed under my hood. I'll take pictures tomorrow in the light.

Here are the graphs. These are the same 2 pulls shown 2 separate times with my old max and today's max.

http://i.imgur.com/WXyweGe.jpg?1

I'm busy all weekend, racing on less power now..... but Monday I plan on removing the GS TMIC and seeing if that is robbing my 2PSI.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #5
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That's upsetting haha. I bought this tmic and feel like its done a lot better then my sti one. I have no data backing it up but my car feels better. I'm having the car retuned after I get a custom Ewg setup finished. Is that downpipe catted?
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:40 PM   #6
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Im interested to see what made the drastic change. How does the car feel on the butt dyno? deff a loss of low end? I purchased one of the tmic's but havent had a chance to install in. Ill be interested to see how it does compared to the 08+sti tmic i have now. I also have a APS tmic from my wrx I thought about swapping on to compare the three...

Keep us updated...
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:03 PM   #7
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Catless down same as before. I had an Invidia diverted bell mouth. The car still feels fast but it lacks some low end punch.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:23 AM   #8
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Keith, we're sorry that you're not finding the same great results as all of our testers as well as many other folks from the group buy! It sounds like you might have something else going on here, but I'm definitely all ears. Lets touch base when the GS team is back from Wicked Big Meet (Tuesday) and see if wee can get to the bottom of this!

Matt
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:28 AM   #9
Crawlerado
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Thanks Matt. Sorry you're hearing about this on a forum. I'm away racing all weekend and won't be back to a computer till Monday. No other changes were made to the car BUT I'm going back to square one and well do a baseline THEN change the parts and run it. My engine, turbo and tuner are all top notch so we will get this figured out. Down on power for today's race but I'm hoping it won't matter. Thanks.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #10
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Random question, have you done a compression and leakdown test lately? Are you positive you havent developed a boost leak? I couldnt tell you how many time Ive seen this at the shop while im prepping a car for the dyno. Not trying to put anyone down here just a thought.

Last edited by rexworx; 06-09-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
Random question, have you done a compression and leakdown test lately? Are you positive you havent developed a boost leak? I couldnt tell you how many time Ive seen this at the shop while im prepping a car for the dyno. Not trying to put anyone down here just a thought.
No offense, and you have a valid point. The car is going to get a thorough once over for sure. We're also planning on removing the two GS parts, running another baseline, then installing ONE part at a time and tuning after each part. Makes for a very long and expensive day on my end but it will prove without a doubt what happened. I'm not ready to blame the car nor the parts just yet, but I know what I know.

Regardless, the TMIC will be coming off. After the Solo event yesterday it was clear that it's the wrong part for the job. My IATs were massive afer only 36 second runs, and I checked the surface temp of my TMIC with several other cars in various degrees of modification and the GS was 10-20 degrees hotter on average.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:32 PM   #12
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The GS TMIC is coming off as we speak. My car has been sitting for 2 hours now and it's still too hot to touch without gloves. Keep in mind that it's only 84 here right now and I popped my hood and pulled the car into the shade at 8:30.

One other thing, this seal...

http://i.imgur.com/B9rnvYL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LwdsvYZ.jpg?1

It just does not fit. I'm assuming there's a solution being worked on.

Just came back from a drive with the STI TMIC on, first thing I noticed were the MUCH lower IATs. After running it hard up to 4th gear, some lights, some 30mph AND sitting idling with the hood shut it still never got above 130F. Maybe it's a side effect of the coating? The increased mass of the unit? Not sure but a 45 degree drop is not insignificant.

Last edited by Crawlerado; 06-10-2013 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:33 PM   #13
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Has the IAT sensor been relocated, or is it on the MAF?
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mgrantham View Post
Has the IAT sensor been relocated, or is it on the MAF?
It has not been relocated.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #15
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Interesting...
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawlerado View Post
Just came back from a drive with the STI TMIC on, first thing I noticed were the MUCH lower IATs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawlerado View Post
It has not been relocated.
So, you are viewing your IAT's via I'm guessing an AP or using a Tactrix cable? You say that it has not been relocated? The sensor is with the MAF, pre intercooler. I don't think this data point is valid for any comparison in measuring the effectiveness of any TMIC.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
So, you are viewing your IAT's via I'm guessing an AP or using a Tactrix cable? You say that it has not been relocated? The sensor is with the MAF, pre intercooler. I don't think this data point is valid for any comparison in measuring the effectiveness of any TMIC.
I never said I was using this data to measure the effectiveness. With the GS TMIC I have seen higher underhood temps due to the mass of the TMIC holding in heat, it gets hotter faster and stays hotter much longer, thus increasing my IATs.

Plain and simple I have lower underhood temps, the STI TMIC is cooler, my IATs are cooler without the GS TMIC.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:39 PM   #18
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So did you put the old DP and TMIC back on and did you get back your ~2psi and your 30 ft-lbs?
Was it the new DP? or the IC?

I am very interested because there aren't really many reviews of the GS TMIC yet and I am really debating between the TurboXS, PW, and GS...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawlerado View Post
I never said I was using this data to measure the effectiveness. With the GS TMIC I have seen higher underhood temps due to the mass of the TMIC holding in heat, it gets hotter faster and stays hotter much longer, thus increasing my IATs.

Plain and simple I have lower underhood temps, the STI TMIC is cooler, my IATs are cooler without the GS TMIC.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:26 PM   #19
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We've had some very impressive results with all of our product testers (some running as much as 575whp without a sweat), so instead of trying to defend our product, I'll offer some advice. It sounds like you may have an issue with 'thermal management', among other things, potentially. If you're truly dissatisfied with the product when all is said and done, of course, we'll make it right. Also, I'm sure there are folks around these parts that would be happy to pay what you paid (or more) for your TMIC.

So, let's start with the basics for those that may not know. When your turbo compresses your intake air, the temperature of the air increases as a result of the increased entropy. That hot air makes its way toward your throttle body, passing only through your y-pipe and TMIC before getting there. Two things can happen to that heat. Your TMIC removes it using cooler, ambient air and whatever is left is ingested by your motor. To be perfectly clear, a TMIC doesn't create heat, it moves it from inside your system into your engine bay. The theory is that a more effective TMIC moves more heat from your charge air to the air entering your engine bay through the scoop. The side effect, of course, is that a more effective TMIC is typically larger and carries more thermal mass. We'll get to that in a sec.

It's helpful that you've isolated your issue to higher pre-turbo IATs. Certainly, that change in IAT makes it much harder for any TMIC to cool the charge air closer to ambient temps. If that temp increase is indeed the case, it's almost remarkable that you saw no real loss in power. So, you've got heat from the charge air and heat from the rest of what's in your engine bay (turbo, downpipe, motor, etc). Since your TMIC doesn't create heat, when you're car is sitting, the heat created by your engine (theoretically identical to before) works to heat the TMIC (and everything else) up to an equilibrium, no hotter. Since an aftermarket TMIC is typically of greater thermal mass, it has the capacity to hold more of that heat for a longer period of time. It's not at all surprising to me that your top mount might warm up over the course of an hour or two after parking it. A stock top mount will definitely not stay warm for as long, since once it's temperature peaks and begins to cool, it cools more quickly, as there is less heat for the ambient air to remove.

So, the issue that you seem to be having is dealing with the heat that your engine is creating (heat that your TMIC removes from the charge air is 'good heat', so forget about that for a sec). The TMIC is getting hot while you aren't moving (or are moving slowly) because that heat is finding its way into our core and end tanks. There are a few ways to combat this and luckily for us all, they're all pretty simple. The first would be to understand that a solid flow of ambient air (cruising at highway speeds) for a couple minutes will bring it right back down to a normal temperature. Please don't be fooled into thinking that a simple fan on a dyno is a sufficient substitute (it usually isn't). The second, and this is likely what you'll need to look into if you want to run an aftermarket TMIC, is managing the heat in your engine bay. If you're not already, consider running a real cold air intake. Work to isolate parts that create hot air from those that move cool air with some sort of thermal barrier (usually a coating or foil). Turbo blankets, downpipe heat shields, exhaust wrap, ceramic coatings and so forth serve a very real purpose, especially when you're talking about running a larger top mount intercooler 4-5in from your turbine housing.

Anyway, that got long-winded. Your IATs are measured at your MAF, so the bottom line is that your air filter is sucking in hotter air than before and that's an issue with managing the heat in your engine bay and near your intake. Your engine creates that heat and larger top mount intercoolers do an excellent job of holding onto it. The thermal dispersant coating encourages heat transfer. That's excellent when you're moving and transferring heat from the charge air to the cooler ambient flow. Unfortunately, it's a double-edged sword and when you aren't moving and you're warming the TMIC with hot air in your engine bay. I can promise you that if you're having this issue with our TMIC, you'll have it with any other larger TMIC.

If you can get the heat near your intake under control and lower your IATs, I suspect that you'll be in great shape! If you need suggestions on a thermal barrier foil (the gold stuff, usually), let me know. A lot of people use what's most readily available, but I usually recommend something different.

(I apologize if this seems a bit scatter-brained. We drove from MN to CT on Friday for Wicked Big Meet and then back yesterday. Definitely not firing on all cylinders, but wanted to get you a bit of a response!)

Matt Beenen
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkubus06 View Post
So did you put the old DP and TMIC back on and did you get back your ~2psi and your 30 ft-lbs?
Was it the new DP? or the IC?

I am very interested because there aren't really many reviews of the GS TMIC yet and I am really debating between the TurboXS, PW, and GS...
As of right now I'm running the GS DP and my STI top mount. My IATs are much better, boost is back up but the car needs to be re-tuned. Unfortunately this is no small task as my tuner is a 150 miles away and booked solid for weeks.

I will be working closely with GS to figure out why on MY SPECIFIC car the results are so far from the norm. One thing I have to point out, replicating results on any one part on a platform that has literally infinite iterations and permutations is very difficult. The plan is to spend a day at the dyno and do this right. I'm going to do a pull with several combinations, first being my old setup to make sure that it is not my car that is causing the issue. It's a possibility that in the 4 months since I first tuned my car something has changed. I said before that I did **** up and changed two things at once, I'll make that right by going backwards and doing a fair amount of work so install and test one part at a time.

In the end all I can say is this, the quality of the parts is top notch, the service that I've gotten from GS is above and beyond, Matt and Andy have always gone WAY over what I've ever seen from any other shop. Don't let the specific circumstances of MY experience sway anyone.

YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:08 PM   #21
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Thanks Matt! I am an engineer as well and you have no idea how much I appreciate a more technical explanation for what is going on rather than just saying "there is nothing wrong with our product, it must be your car". I am very impressed with GS's customer service!
I have always respected GrimmSpeed since you guys worked with MAC to develop the valve in your EBCS because they are definitely the best in the market...I may or may not work in that industry with that manufacturer.

Also thanks Crawlerado for the update, I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see more developments if you decide to update.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:10 PM   #22
tekfoc
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:53 PM   #23
GrimmSpeed
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
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2013 BRZ, 2006 STI

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Originally Posted by linkubus06 View Post
Thanks Matt! I am an engineer as well and you have no idea how much I appreciate a more technical explanation for what is going on rather than just saying "there is nothing wrong with our product, it must be your car". I am very impressed with GS's customer service!
I have always respected GrimmSpeed since you guys worked with MAC to develop the valve in your EBCS because they are definitely the best in the market...I may or may not work in that industry with that manufacturer.

Also thanks Crawlerado for the update, I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see more developments if you decide to update.
Not a problem, man! Thanks for the compliment. I've been in touch with Keith privately a little bit and it sounds like he's got a game plan that will help him isolate his issues and see how they'll be best handled. When he's got some results, I'm sure he'll post them up and we can go from there!

We definitely appreciate any and all feedback, but when there are results like this that are so much different than what we've found during development and testing, we take a special interest in making sure things are taken care of. Keith is an autox racer and the way an autox day goes down (put lots of heat into the car quickly and then let it sit on grid, heat-soaking), it's especially important to have temperatures under control. For this same reason, a lot of drag race guys use ice to keep their TMICs cool during staging. He may find that given the size of his turbo and how he intends to use the car (low speeds, lots of sitting), a larger aftermarket TMIC just isn't in his best interest. I think he'll be able to figure things out, but either way, we're here to support him in getting the most out of his top mount.

If anyone else has questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to call or shoot me an email. We're currently waiting for our foundry to pour another batch of end tanks so that we can get them machined, welded up and pressure tested. They should be back in stock (here and with vendors) in a month or two.

Matt Beenen
Engineering
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:45 AM   #24
shagzrex
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The GS TMIC is coming off as we speak. My car has been sitting for 2 hours now and it's still too hot to touch without gloves. Keep in mind that it's only 84 here right now and I popped my hood and pulled the car into the shade at 8:30.

One other thing, this seal...

http://i.imgur.com/B9rnvYL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LwdsvYZ.jpg?1

It just does not fit. I'm assuming there's a solution being worked on.

Just came back from a drive with the STI TMIC on, first thing I noticed were the MUCH lower IATs. After running it hard up to 4th gear, some lights, some 30mph AND sitting idling with the hood shut it still never got above 130F. Maybe it's a side effect of the coating? The increased mass of the unit? Not sure but a 45 degree drop is not insignificant.
I purchased the splitter and got everything to fit fine. The seal, as far as I know, installs around the inner walls of the vent. I originally did the same thing as you and found out it just wouldn't fit no matter how much I stretched it. Maybe Matt can clarify further for us. Hope this helps!
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:40 PM   #25
TAJR02WRX
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