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Old 05-31-2017, 02:22 PM   #126
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Wait, So has the 3 been officially track tested by a third party?
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:32 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Here is where I get to show my bias. The humble chevy doing it in 6.5 is impressive. The ultra hyped 3 doing it quicker is not. The marketing that Elon works so hard to promote his product also raises expectations. I also think the chevy will be consistently cheaper than the 3 in all trims and will have an extensive dealer network to address any and all issues which the 3 will not. Will ideology outsell reality... who knows.

in THE END the customers will decide if they want a car or a rolling iphone. I will be interesting to watch.

None of these things matter; people get the car they want, not the car they actually need.
I expect reasonable people will get the Bolt/Volt/Leaf/Fiat 500e and so on.
But, a lot of people will get the 3 and a good portion of these people are current Model S owners, which, on paper, shouldn't be selling at all.
When I look around the SF Bay Area, the number of Model S rolling around is truly staggering; again, it's all emotions/desires/aspirations not reason.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:04 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
in THE END the customers will decide if they want a car or a rolling iphone. I will be interesting to watch.
As someone that just recently moved back to an iPhone after having a string of janky Android Flagship phones, I find these kinds of idiotic statements incredibly amusing.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:09 PM   #129
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It is good you can laugh, laughter makes the world a better place. You see I took you literally, just like you took me. Gotta love the internet full of all sorts of characters.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:06 PM   #130
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Man,,, you are cranky.

You are probably upset because you keep loosing money
Perfectly 'millennialized' response. No substance, no argument, no facts - just straight to full conjectural BS to avoid anything real. Loose/lose. Awesome - CEO material.
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:46 PM   #131
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I'm curious to see info on the awd version, whenever that eventually comes out. Given the climate I live in, it's AWD or nothing for me.


Same here. I wonder what the real world mileage will be for an AWD in winter time. I would love an AWD EV but it's a bit too soon for me. I'm sure my next car in 5/6 years will be an EV. Too much unknown on the model 3 for me to put a deposit and wait.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:35 PM   #132
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:12 PM   #133
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:06 AM   #134
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Mark Fields got canned because Tesla took all the air out of the room.
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:26 PM   #135
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Just saw one driving around Los Altos, Blue #12. Didn't realize they were going to be so small. Hood is really low, maybe Lotus low, entire car otherwise looks 2-series size. Tall, Jetsons style greenhouse even more pronounced in real life.
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:32 PM   #136
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the car does not have a low cowl height. It has the same height as any other car that has to meet the minimum height. It just has a mork from ork looking high green house making the cowl look low.
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Just saw one driving around Los Altos, Blue #12. Didn't realize they were going to be so small. Hood is really low, maybe Lotus low, entire car otherwise looks 2-series size. Tall, Jetsons style greenhouse even more pronounced in real life.
C'mon.. lets see some old guys duke it out.

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Old 07-11-2017, 06:36 PM   #137
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Quote:
The Very First Tesla Model 3 Just Rolled Off the Line. So Who Gets It?
by PAUL A. EISENSTEIN



Tesla CEO Elon Musk posted a picture at the weekend of what appears to be the first “saleable” Model 3 sedan to roll off the Fremont, California assembly line, a critical step in Tesla’s push to become a truly mainstream manufacturer.

But the company appears to have pushed back on its promise to start taking official orders for the new Model 3 on Friday and still has not given a solid sense of pricing for the compact battery-electric vehicle. A visit to the Tesla website only reveals the same information that has been up there for some time, among other things noting a “starting price” of $35,000.

Tesla has a lot riding on the Model 3 launch. Though there are plenty of skeptics, Musk has outlined a plan that would take the company’s production to 500,000 vehicles in 2018 — a sixfold increase from 2016 — and Model 3 would account for about 80 percent of that total.

This first Model 3 already has a home, apparently. It was due to go to Tesla board member Ira Ehrenpreis, the first to put down a reservation and deposit. But he has reportedly given the rights to the first car to Musk as a birthday present. He turned 46 on June 28.

As for retail customers, it’s unclear what a typically equipped Model 3 will go for. The company is expected to offer some options, including its semi-autonomous Autopilot technology. It is uncertain whether buyers will get the option to upgrade to a battery pack offering more than the base 215-mile range, as is the case with the current Models S and X. Tesla has only confirmed it will offer 18- and 19-inch wheel options.

“Initially, the Model 3 configurator is going to be like 'What color do you want? And what size wheel do you want?' That’s basically going to be the configurator,” said Musk in a tweet.

The configurator will also show future options, such as a dual-motor version of the Model 3, similar to such existing products as the larger Model S P100d. That, according to Musk, is due “late 2017 or early 2018.”

Tesla previously said it would charge Model 3 customers to use the company’s high-speed Supercharger network. The feature is built into the price of Tesla’s more expensive products.

Barely a month ago, Tesla's stock zoomed to record levels following Musk’s announcement that the first Model 3 would be ready in July. But things haven’t gone so well since then. Stock plunged by nearly 20 percent last week, briefly entering “bear” territory, before settling in. Shares are still off more than $70 from the record $386.99 high set in June.

Any number of issues have sent investors scurrying:

Relatively weak second-quarter sales, which were up 53 percent year-over-year but down 12 percent from first quarter numbers
Demand in California, Tesla’s top market, was especially weak
The Model S sedan fared poorly in a key crash test and failed to earn the coveted Insurance Institute for Highway Safety “Top Safety Pick+” rating
Key analysts have amped up warnings about Tesla stock, including David Tamberrino of Goldman Sachs, who sees a long-term price of between just $170 and $180 a share
Volvo announced plans to electrify its entire line-up, emphasizing that most manufacturers are migrating to hybrid, plug-in and pure battery-electric power, a more direct challenge to Tesla.
Shortly after the Model 3 was first unveiled on March 31, 2016, Tesla indicated it had received more than 300,000 advance orders. The company has not updated that figure, though analysts have estimated it is currently somewhere between 400,000 and 500,000. For his part, Musk indicated Tesla has about 18 months of back orders based on its current production ramp-up schedule. That means deliveries wouldn’t be completed until sometime in 2019, even if it received no additional orders — but Tesla says it has continued to book more early reservations.

The real test will come this month when the order configurator goes into operation and we get to see if those reservations actually will translate into paid sales.


http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...so-who-n781326

tl:dr: Elon Musk gets the first one.
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:37 PM   #138
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Read a few articles saying Tesla is behind the 8 ball in production numbers. Better pump those numbers up Elon, those are rookie numbers.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:01 PM   #139
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Styling of Model 3 reminds me of a slightly better looking Mazda 3. Not interested in owning one. The Model S is pretty attractive, and a blast to drive (plus Autopilot is actually pretty cool for road trip style driving), but the X is hideous and riddled with issues due to the stupid falcon wing doors, amongst other things.

Very curious to see how this all pans out moving forward...
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:18 AM   #140
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Default Tesla Model 3 review: first drive of Elon Musk's affordable EV Whatís this then?

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Tesla Model 3 review: first drive of Elon Musk's affordable EV

What’s this then?

This is the Tesla Model 3, Elon Musk’s first foray into proper mass production and his company’s most affordable car yet. Priced at $35k in basic form it costs half as much as its bigger Model S brother, and with a range of 310 miles, a 0-60mph time of 5.1 seconds and seating for five, it could be the car that starts the charge from internal combustion to EVs in the mass market. That’s certainly what Musk and the Tesla team are hoping - they’re aiming to go from a current annual production of 80,000 cars in 2016 to 500,000 by 2018, a ramp up that Musk described as looking like “a lot of pain”.

Is it just a shrunken Model S, or more than that?

The Model 3 (which Musk wanted to name the Model E, to give him a range of S E X, but was foiled by the lawyers) is about 20 per cent smaller than the S, so think of it more as a BMW 3 Series/Jaguar XE alternative. Initial deliveries will be of the RWD model offered in two specifications. The standard car starts at $35k, will do 220 miles on a charge, hit 60mph in 5.6 seconds and top out at 130mph. The long range version which starts at $44k, is good for 310 miles, 60 comes up in 5.1 seconds, and it has a 140mph Vmax. Dual motor AWD versions will follow later in the year with performance derivatives some time in 2018.

Whereas the Model S and X are predominately constructed from aluminium, the 3 features greater use of steel but still weighs in at 1,609kg (in standard spec) in comparison to the base Model S at 1,961kg.

The exterior design is in line with the rest of the range and with aesthetics being largely subjective I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions. Personally I’m not 100 per cent sold on the looks as it feels like it’s lost something in translation from last year’s concept to production. There are some nice design features though, the roof and rear screen are one continuous piece of glass providing greater headroom in the back seats. More importantly the lack of cooling intakes in the front and the overall simplicity of the design (batteries requiring less cooling than any ICE engine) make the Tesla very aerodynamically efficient with a drag coefficient of 0.24 (the same as the BMW i8) which should help eke the most out of the range on motorway runs.

Give me some ludicrous numbers.

With the early cars being rear-wheel-drive, non-performance derivatives, the usual Tesla internet fodder of supercar slaying performance figures aren’t that evident. But 0-60mph in 5.6 in base spec and its 220 mile range make it a viable everyday rival for the BMW i3, with its claimed range of 195 miles (although it’s more like 125 in the real world). More staggering are the numbers of people queuing up to buy one. In the first 24hrs following the announcement of the Model 3 last year Tesla had taken 115,000 reservations, in 48hrs that figure rose to 232,000, in the first week the number hit 325,000 delivering potential sales revenue of $14bn. Musk says the current order bank sits at “over 500k and that’s without us really trying to sell it, we don’t advertise”. All of which must make terrifying reading if you’re the CEO of a more “traditional” car manufacturer.

Can it drive itself?

Yup, like the rest of the Tesla range the Model 3 features the Autopilot system which is capable of fully autonomous driving. But to benefit from the full capability you’ll need to tick the Enhanced Autopilot ($5,000) and Fully Self Driving Capability ($3,000) options. Do that and the latest iteration of Autopilot fitted to the Model 3 will have the ability to handle motorway intersections, Autosteer+ will pilot you down more complex country roads, and Smart Summon will allow the car to leave your garage and navigate its way round to your front door. But there’s a caveat in the Tesla small print… “Please note that self driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction”. So while the Model 3 is clearly capable of keeping Tesla at the forefront of the autonomous revolution, legislation and software approval are holding it back.

Does it still have a steering wheel?

Yes, while it’s questionable how long it will remain a feature of future Teslas, for now the interior is a minimalist dream, but still features all the conventional controls you’d expect. The Tesla team went to lengths to explain that the Model 3 has been designed to simplify everything from its construction to its operation. Gone are the Model S’s projecting door handles in favour of nicely crafted aluminium ones which project like those on an Aston when you poke one end. Open the door and slide in and the interior is incredibly simple and uncluttered. The steering wheel features two buttons which adjust everything from the traditional (volume, radio frequency) to the more unique (door mirror adjustment and steering wheel positioning). It’s a smart approach and highlights the thought that’s gone into the simplification of the cockpit, but not at the expense of functionality. The main focus of the interior is the 15in horizontally mounted LCD screen which displays all information, from speed, gear selection and autonomy functions on the left to large scale navigation and connectivity on the right, and is configurable in a myriad of ways to personalise your interaction with the car.

Our short foray highlighted that the Model 3’s quoted 0-60 time of 5.1 seconds might be underplaying its performance
The car we drove was a long range model with all the options list ticked including the Premium Upgrade Package, featured leather seats (base models come with fabric) and a wooden dash inlay panel that spans the width of the cockpit and the aforementioned glass roof that provides the interior with a huge feeling of light and space. It’s all simple, elegant, uncluttered and nicely crafted. Before we set off I jumped in the back and with the driver seat positioned for my 6ft frame, proved there was plenty of room in the back for three adults.

So, did you get to drive it and or did it drive itself?

Well both actually. We were at an event celebrating the handover of the first 30 production cars to employees and other early adopters, but managed to somehow persuade Elon and his team to let us have a go. We were sent out in batches of four for a limited drive on the roads around Tesla’s Fremont factory. I was fortunate enough to be in the first group but the guy in front was clearly suffering from stage fright, so I pulled out and set off, making me the first Journalist in the world the drive the Model 3… Nice. My co-pilot was Jerome Guillen, who was the project lead on the Model S and is now currently working on Tesla’s Semi project (autonomous lorry) and whose actual car we were driving. No wonder he looked nervous. Our short foray highlighted that the Model 3’s quoted 0-60 time of 5.1 seconds in this long range spec might be underplaying its performance a bit: it’s rapid and the acceleration is delivered with a lovely linearity and unwavering torque that EVs deliver. The overall feeling of peace and quiet is helped by the uncluttered interior but the sound deadening and insulation of the Model 3 is impressive with road noise minimal. The steering is meaty and positive, but beyond that on such a short drive the overall impression was that it delivers a very similar driving experience to the Model S or X and stays true to previous product dynamics.

Our brief excursion also allowed us to test the Autopilot, a system that still feels like witchcraft. The levels at which the car is capable of processing information are staggering and if we’re honest it’s clearly concentrating a lot harder than most of us after a hard day at the office. One day the legislative world will catch up with the brains trust developing these systems and we’ll be able to experience the full capability of what Autopilot can deliver. For now though it will happily allow you to take your hands off for as long as it knows what’s going on and can read the road, if it doesn’t it warns you to place your hands back on so it knows you’re not asleep.

So how much, and when can I actually get my hands on one?

While the headline starting price of $35k (before subsidies) for Model 3 early adopters in the US looks attractive, our analysis of previous Tesla pricing between the US and UK has the Model 3 weighing in at a starting price of £31k. If the £4,500 government grant for zero emission vehicles remains in place when the first cars arrive in the UK in 2018 then you’re looking at something of an EV bargain, but get busy with the options boxes and the maths becomes more challenging.

Anything else I should know?

Having spent some time in the Tesla bubble what’s clear is that the radical thinking and desire to disrupt the automotive landscape epitomised by Elon Musk remains undiminished. With the handover and presentation of the first Model 3s done, now the hard work begins as they try to ramp up to delivering half a million cars a year. At the same time 2018 sees Musk’s SpaceX project due to launch its first cargo mission to Mars, a planet he has previously mentioned wanting to colonise by 2040. The fact that Elon plans to have colonised a distant and inhospitable planet by the time the UK government aims to have banned the internal combustion engine, is a perfect articulation of the disparate scope of their various ambition. The Model 3 is a significant milestone in the Tesla story and could leave others trailing in its wake if they can deliver against the insatiable early demand for it; a challenge that cannot be underestimated, but one that given previous history you wouldn’t bet against them delivering.
More reviews at links

http://blog.caranddriver.com/tesla-m...+and+Driver%29


http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...prices-model-3
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla...-drive-review/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/28/1...-30-livestream

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Old 07-29-2017, 09:22 AM   #141
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:53 PM   #142
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From the MotorTrend link:

Quote:
But of course, Franzís car isnít $35,000. A quick summing of its features puts it at about $59,500 before incentives
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Old 07-30-2017, 09:19 PM   #143
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From the MotorTrend link:



That's with every option checked.
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:56 AM   #144
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That's with every option checked.
True, if you don't mind unheated cloth seats/no autopilot/black colour/lower range version, you can get one for $35,000.... sometime in the next 18 months
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:56 AM   #145
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True, if you don't mind unheated cloth seats/no autopilot/black colour/lower range version, you can get one for $35,000.... sometime in the next 40 months
Fixed...

You can probably pick up a used Bolt for half price before you can actually get a Model 3.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:37 AM   #146
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True, if you don't mind unheated cloth seats/no autopilot/black colour/lower range version, you can get one for $35,000.... sometime in the next 18 months
$40,000 for an autopilot equipped car is crazy value for commuters. That's less than an average 3 series.
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:02 PM   #147
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$40,000 for an autopilot equipped car is crazy value for commuters. That's less than an average 3 series.
If that's your priority then sure. They say the new Leaf will have Nissan's 'Pro Pilot' or whatever they call it so that should be a cheaper option but who knows at this point.

The Model 3 looks like a great car, it will sell well. For me personally, to get one equipped the way I would want it, it's more than I'm willing to pay. Admittedly, I'm cheap and tend to buy 1 year old cars that have taken huge depreciation hits.
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:51 PM   #148
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That's with every option checked.
Yeah, the popcorn was more for the folks who, for the last 2 years, kept quoting the performance and options of the $60k car while saying that it would be $35k. It felt like people thought they'd be getting the M3 for 320i money.

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You can probably pick up a used Bolt for half price before you can actually get a Model 3.
Yeah, if you're not in line, that is true. What I believe he meant is that everyone has been quoting the $35k price but Tesla doesn't plan to build many, if any, of the lower trimmed cars for 18-24 months.
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:08 PM   #149
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Well done, Musk. Even if this isn't the car that leads a stampede away from the ICE-based cars, we're damn close. Solid state batteries with fast-charging are coming quickly and even petrol heads like me have to admire the simplicity of the electrical motors.

Imagine not having to worry about oil changes, coolant levels, exhaust system rust, PCV valves, emissions testing, etc.

Soon, the batteries will be fast charge and non-explosive-when-punctured. (5 years, likely)

The vehicle I'm most excited about going full-electric? The Wrangler. Imagine having an electric motor at each wheel instead of axles. Yeah. YEAH. Articulation and lifting become so much more interesting. Charging on the trail is as easy as a portable Honda generator or maybe even a solar panel roof and hood. Future is bright.
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:11 PM   #150
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With all due respect Keshav we have been hearing of new battery tech for the past 15 years and it is always just 3-5 years away or right around the corner. EV are still less than 1 percent of cars purchased. The numbers are a long way from being mainstream. Now if gas hits 5 dollars a gallon I think it will help, but their is absolutely no reason that should happen in the next 10 years.
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