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Old 05-25-2018, 07:35 PM   #401
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Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Definitely a positive review for the Model 3. However, I couldn't help but notice how much time he spent dicking around with the touch screen versus looking ahead at the road. The touch screen function really is one of my biggest gripes and concerns. I just see it as more distraction for the stupid people.
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:42 PM   #402
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:10 PM   #403
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:14 PM   #404
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Yeah, this car does it for me. The model S I thought was pretty damn neat, E-Mission tickles my Porsche fanboi side and EV side.

I bet it doesn’t start under $90k. 😡
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:16 PM   #405
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Stupid.
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:53 AM   #406
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“Tesla Model 3 Oversees Launch Delayed Until Next Year.”
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/6b754ba1...?.tsrc=applewf

“Tesla Inc. (TSLA ), the green carmaker, isn’t only having production problems with its Model 3 in the U.S. The company is also extending the launch in international markets until next year.

Tesla’s outspoken and controversial Chief Executive Elon Musk took to Twitter late last week to inform the world that the rollout of a left-hand drive Model 3 for Asia and Europe will happen in the first half of 2019 instead of in the second half of this year. As for right-hand drive Model 3s, which it’s making for the U.K. and other countries, it will “probably” launch in the middle of next year.”

Delay Shouldn’t Be a Surprise
The tweet shouldn’t surprise too many investors given the production woes the company has been having in the U.S. But the tweet has prompted some speculation as to what Tesla is really up to. Online publication Electrek contends that Tesla is ramping up production of the Model 3 in the U.S. at the expense of international expansion to take advantage of a federal tax credit. According to the report, if it delivers its 200,000th electric car in the U.S. a $7,500 tax credit starts to get reduced after the end of the quarter that it hits the 200K mark. If Tesla pushed back international production it could focus on Model 3 production and reach the threshold in the third quarter, the report speculated.”
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:37 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
software cannot fix a lack of proper hardware. If extensive software calibration is needed then it was designed wrong in the first place. I have seen this too many times. Design is done wrong or half assed and then they dump all the problems on the poor software guys, who need to put in band aids to fix it with valve opening inhibits, staged opening and closing of hardware to prevent water hammer in propulsion systems. Rushed mechanical design often requires software to bail them out.


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Tesla Model 3 Gets CR Recommendation After Braking Update
Automaker responds to Consumer Reports test results and reduces stopping distance by nearly 20 feet
By Patrick Olsen
May 30, 2018

Tesla Model 3 brake test by Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports now recommends the Tesla Model 3, after our testers found a recent over-the-air update improved the car's braking distance by nearly 20 feet.

The software update came a week after Consumer Reports published test results that showed stopping distances for the Model 3 that were significantly longer than any other contemporary car. That braking performance, along with issues with the Model 3's controls and ride comfort, initially prevented the car from getting a CR Recommendation.

Last week, after CR's road test was published, Tesla CEO Elon Musk vowed that the automaker would get a fix out within days.

Until now, that type of remote improvement to a car’s basic functionality had been unheard of. “I’ve been at CR for 19 years and tested more than 1,000 cars,” said Jake Fisher, director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, “and I’ve never seen a car that could improve its track performance with an over-the-air update.”

In an email to CR, a Tesla spokeswoman said that the company improved the software for the Model 3's antilock braking system to adapt to variations in how the brakes might be used and to respond to different environmental conditions.

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In CR’s initial review of the Model 3, testers noted that the EV’s 152 feet to stop from 60 mph was 7 feet longer than a Ford F-150 pickup, and 25 feet longer than Tesla's own Model X SUV. In retesting after the software update was downloaded, the sedan stopped in 133 feet from 60 mph, an improvement of 19 feet.

ROAD TESTS
Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
The new shorter distance is typical for a compact luxury car, and matches the 133 feet that Tesla claims its own testing found, using the same tires as those on our Model 3.

The improved braking distances raised the Model 3’s Overall Score enough for the car to be recommended by CR, but our testers had other areas of concern as well. They found issues with the Model 3’s wind noise, stiff ride, and uncomfortable rear seat. Last week, Musk told CR in a conversation that the automaker has already made changes to its production line to address those three issues.

In order to see if those changes made a difference, CR is renting another Model 3 from Tesla. CR does not use rental cars in our formal testing, but we will report back on what we find in that car.

Tesla Model 3 software update for brakes
CR also gave notably low marks to the Model 3’s unique controls, which force drivers to make audio, phone, climate, and other changes almost exclusively through a center-mounted touch screen. Musk suggested in the same conversation with CR that some of those problems could be addressed with OTA updates.

And it appears that Tesla has already started to deploy some changes to the controls in the latest update. CR testers discovered that the controls for the side mirror and steering wheel adjustment on the touch screen now function differently.

Before the update, our testers expressed concern that those controls were difficult to use while driving, and CR's Jake Fisher mentioned the potential for distraction to Musk during the phone conversation. Now, when drivers adjust their seat position using the power controls along the edge of the driver's seat, prompts to adjust the car's mirrors and steering wheel position appear on the center touch screen. At first glance, these changes seem to be an improvement, but we need to spend more time evaluating them.

Finally, Musk suggested in a tweet last week that the company would make the Model 3’s braking performance the best in its class. Although this update improved the car’s stopping distances, they are not class-leading. So for Tesla to make good on Musk's promise, it may need additional updates to the braking software.

In response to a question from CR, Tesla says that it works to "continuously improve our products in pursuit of having the best possible products in every category," but it did not provide a timeline for any future updates.

CR will continue to evaluate updates and make changes to our scores as necessary.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...raking-update/
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:43 PM   #408
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^^^

I was just about to post this. Definitely strong and positive news.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:06 PM   #409
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Should not have made it into customers hands with that braking performance in the first place.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:45 PM   #410
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Should not have made it into customers hands with that braking performance in the first place.
Do you think any one else noticed? How many people do multiple 60-0 braking passes? Everyone was getting 130ft on the first pass and after that 150fts which still fine per FMVSS. They state that the first stop needs to be less than 279ft and hot performance stops for fade resistance is 292ft.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:03 PM   #411
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Do you think any one else noticed? How many people do multiple 60-0 braking passes? Everyone was getting 130ft on the first pass and after that 150fts which still fine per FMVSS. They state that the first stop needs to be less than 279ft and hot performance stops for fade resistance is 292ft.
That isn't quite all there is to it. The FMVSS stops are done loaded to full GVW from 62mph at a limited pedal force and have to be within a certain percentage of the best original stop (trickier part to pass) - although I will say again that the FMVSS 135 standards (besides the Failed Brake Power Assist section) generally aren't terribly difficult to pass. I'm assuming CR didn't load up to GVW or limit their pedal effort for their stops.

The point is - it is unlikely that Tesla has tested these new changes sufficiently on multiple surfaces (ice, wet, gravel, dirt, etc) under enough conditions to verify that their aren't any unintentional consequences to the "improvement" they made. ABS calibrations are usually a compromise - otherwise why was it so bad originally? If they didn't test it enough initially to notice a 20ft variability in dry condition stops that was immediately evident to CR on two different Model 3s, then why would we trust them to have checked less common conditions now while rushing to implement a fix?

It is Tesla's utter disregard for properly testing things before sending them out to customers that concerns me the most. Cars are too dangerous to have safety systems being changed without proper verification. People are holding up this update as a demonstration of what is great about Tesla, and I see it as one of largest things wrong with Tesla.

It is amazing to me that people have no issue with potentially having cars and safety systems that are as unreliable and untested as their smartphone or PC. I saw a Model 3 review where the guy was happy that he could start driving his Model 3 while the screen was still rebooting after it occasionally locked up. We're not talking about a radio here - we're talking about every gauge in the car becoming non-functional until the screen can be rebooted. How is that acceptable in any car? Nothing but rushed programming and insufficient testing could result in that screen locking up. It is a completely closed ecosystem (no user added hardware/software or millions of different hardware configurations to account for like a real OS where problems are more understandable).
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:48 AM   #412
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That isn't quite all there is to it. The FMVSS stops are done loaded to full GVW from 62mph at a limited pedal force and have to be within a certain percentage of the best original stop (trickier part to pass) - although I will say again that the FMVSS 135 standards (besides the Failed Brake Power Assist section) generally aren't terribly difficult to pass. I'm assuming CR didn't load up to GVW or limit their pedal effort for their stops.

The point is - it is unlikely that Tesla has tested these new changes sufficiently on multiple surfaces (ice, wet, gravel, dirt, etc) under enough conditions to verify that their aren't any unintentional consequences to the "improvement" they made. ABS calibrations are usually a compromise - otherwise why was it so bad originally? If they didn't test it enough initially to notice a 20ft variability in dry condition stops that was immediately evident to CR on two different Model 3s, then why would we trust them to have checked less common conditions now while rushing to implement a fix?

It is Tesla's utter disregard for properly testing things before sending them out to customers that concerns me the most. Cars are too dangerous to have safety systems being changed without proper verification. People are holding up this update as a demonstration of what is great about Tesla, and I see it as one of largest things wrong with Tesla.

It is amazing to me that people have no issue with potentially having cars and safety systems that are as unreliable and untested as their smartphone or PC. I saw a Model 3 review where the guy was happy that he could start driving his Model 3 while the screen was still rebooting after it occasionally locked up. We're not talking about a radio here - we're talking about every gauge in the car becoming non-functional until the screen can be rebooted. How is that acceptable in any car? Nothing but rushed programming and insufficient testing could result in that screen locking up. It is a completely closed ecosystem (no user added hardware/software or millions of different hardware configurations to account for like a real OS where problems are more understandable).
Look at the difference in brake distance between a panic stop and heat performance brake fade resistance from FMVSS; the delta is 20ft. That's the same delta CR got during testing and probably the same delta that they saw during their testing.

You never driven a car a with the speedo not working or with aftermarket wheels of different size than stock affecting the speedo accuracy.... give me a break . First world problems. The target audience for this car really don't care about your concerns.

I did for while because I swapped a 2011 STI transmission in my 07 WRX in which the 2011 tranny doesn't have a standard speed sensor.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:23 AM   #413
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Look at the difference in brake distance between a panic stop and heat performance brake fade resistance from FMVSS; the delta is 20ft. That's the same delta CR got during testing and probably the same delta that they saw during their testing.

You never driven a car a with the speedo not working or with aftermarket wheels of different size than stock affecting the speedo accuracy.... give me a break . First world problems. The target audience for this car really don't care about your concerns.

I did for while because I swapped a 2011 STI transmission in my 07 WRX in which the 2011 tranny doesn't have a standard speed sensor.
You can't compare a modified car's systems failing to a stock car. You sound like a blind apologist. Tesla treats a car with the same standards that are typical in the software world. Make it just good enough to pass a few basic tests, sell it to the public, then work out the bugs later with updates or just blame it on user error.

I was interested in a model 3 at first and thought about putting a deposit on one. Definitely glad I didn't now. I've been a Tesla fan since before Musk took over but I'm not putting $45-50k of my money for a car that needs updates to perform as expected.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:05 AM   #414
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You can't compare a modified car's systems failing to a stock car. You sound like a blind apologist. Tesla treats a car with the same standards that are typical in the software world. Make it just good enough to pass a few basic tests, sell it to the public, then work out the bugs later with updates or just blame it on user error.

I was interested in a model 3 at first and thought about putting a deposit on one. Definitely glad I didn't now. I've been a Tesla fan since before Musk took over but I'm not putting $45-50k of my money for a car that needs updates to perform as expected.
like all other cars come out perfect out the factory and never get any recalls. Which in this case there wasn't a recall or safety concerns just that the car was under performing compared to their competitors.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:02 PM   #415
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You never driven a car a with the speedo not working or with aftermarket wheels of different size than stock affecting the speedo accuracy.... give me a break .
Yes, but I was still able to control the windshield wipers
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:06 PM   #416
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Yes, but I was still able to control the windshield wipers
good one ....

but I guess you can use autopilot.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:11 PM   #417
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https://electrek.co/2018/05/31/tesla...oduction-cost/


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Tesla Model 3 teardown points to only $28,000 in potential material and production cost
Fred Lambert

- May. 31st 2018 10:47 am ET

@FredericLambert

TESLA TESLA MODEL 3

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Several Tesla Model 3 vehicles were bought by competing automaker engineering firms to try and to learn about the technology.

Earlier this year, a German automaker was reportedly impressed by the Model 3 after having reverse-engineered it.

Now, another German firm has reportedly completed a teardown of the vehicle and came up with an impressive potential cost for Tesla’s latest electric vehicle.


German magazine WirtschaftsWoche spoke with one of the engineering firms who bought Model 3 vehicles on the used market to benchmark and tear them down.

They claim that their cost analysis resulted in materials and logistics costs of $18,000 and labor costs of $10,000 for a total cost potential cost of $28,000.

A test engineer for the firm said that he believes the Model 3 could turn out to be quite profitable:

If Tesla manages to build the planned 10,000 units a week, the Model 3 will deliver a significant positive contribution to earnings,

This analysis counters previous reports that suggested the cost could be closer to $35,000, which happens to be the base price of the standard version of the Model 3.

The firm also claims to have figured out the percentage of cobalt inside the Model 3 battery cells: 2.8 percent.

That’s significantly less cobalt than in similar battery cells from the competition and confirms what Tesla recently claimed in its shareholders letter and ‘Conflict Minerals Report’.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:30 PM   #418
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Forget recalls. Let's just stick to reflashes. That's what Tesla is being accused of. I remember when the Evo X came out. That thing needed a reflash every oil change for 2 years. If you were unlucky enough to purchase the MR it was even more reflashing. I don't for the life of me remember anyone on EvoM credibly accusing Mitsubishi of sending out inferior products on purpose because that was the culture in Japan. It was understood that was the way cars were going to be from now on. Plug a key into the main system and tune and tweak. This has been the norm in the car industry for quite a while.

Where the outrage should be focused is when reflashing simply doesn't work and it takes years for a recall to happen because the reflash path is the cheapest route. That's not what Tesla is accused of here, but may as well be with some of these posts. My father-in-law's E60 5 series began sucking the battery dry overnight because the thing was doing so many systems checks after short jaunts during the day it never had time to charge the battery. It took something like 10 flashes a few batteries and 2 battery chargers to get the thing to stop draining the battery EVERY night. Finally got rid of it because the solution was impractical. BMW issued a recall years later. Outrage warranted. Tesla outrage on this is on par with braking system completely dead as are people.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:26 PM   #419
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“Tesla’s over-the-air brake upgrade was amazing—and also a bit worrying”
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:35 PM   #420
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https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-sales-may-2018-u-s/

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. Tesla Model 3 Just Beat Monthly Sales Record Set By Model S
Tesla Model 3
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The top sales spot for plug-in electric cars in the U.S. is once again held by the Tesla Model 3.
For the month of May, it was no contest.

Not even close.

Though final numbers aren’t yet in, the Model 3 simply blew any would-be competitors away this past month with sales estimated at 6,250 in the U.S. That blows away April’s result of 3,875 Model 3s sold.
Tesla sold more Models 3s in May than the model S, model X, Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf combined .
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:15 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-sales-may-2018-u-s/



Tesla sold more Models 3s in May than the model S, model X, Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf combined .
I think that is somewhat expected but these numbers are still minisule compared to traditional mid size sales from cars such as the Accord, Camry, etc. Not trying to rain on a parade here, but the Model 3 sales have a long way to go.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:39 PM   #422
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I think that is somewhat expected but these numbers are still minisule compared to traditional mid size sales from cars such as the Accord, Camry, etc. Not trying to rain on a parade here, but the Model 3 sales have a long way to go.
Of course the number are not anything like the Accord and Camry because they are in a different category and priced way higher.

In California the model 3 beat the BMW 3 series and the Mercedes C-class series IIRC, Audi A4 in sales last month which are the model 3 direct competitors.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #423
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So the Model 3 is 80% of the 3/4 series sales for the year. That's not bad at all. (18K vs 26K)
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #424
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Of course the number are not anything like the Accord and Camry because they are in a different category and priced way higher.

In California the model 3 beat the BMW 3 series and the Mercedes C-class series IIRC, Audi A4 in sales last month which are the model 3 direct competitors.
That’s great and all but that’s cherry picking data pretty bad. Focusing on the sales of cars from just one state doesn’t say much.
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Old 06-01-2018, 04:54 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
That’s great and all but that’s cherry picking data pretty bad. Focusing on the sales of cars from just one state doesn’t say much.
May Mercedes C-class Nationally were 5419
Audi A4 was 3472

Are you happy now?
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