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Old 01-13-2020, 02:47 PM   #301
lil'redwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Where in Subaru's history have they had a significant price jump from one generation to the next?
All the time - I got my WRX in 2002 for $22K, and by 2008, it was in the mid $20s, with the STI in the low $30's, and the 2015s were in the high $20s with the STI up in the mid $30s. Each generation seems to be a bump of roughly $3,500-5000 in base price. Which is all I'm talking about. I'm saying they project the deflation of currency exchange or currency in general for the next ~10 years and that is one of the factors of setting the base price. So saying that they shouldn't raise the base price on the next gen, because the previous gen was X dollars (10 years ago) presents a challenge.

I agree that once you get into the $40K range, there is more competition, but that competition has always been there. Mustangs have always been there offering cheap power, and Toyota has brought out different generations of the Supra, Celica, etc. I don't think they're concerned about muscle car buyers. As mentioned, the 86/BRZ is a 718/Cayman at less than half the price. I'd say that that's more of their target market, and they're still the cheap option in that world, next to the Miata.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:01 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Any logical explanation would be use of an FA24 with D4S pumping out 230 hp and 200 lb ft/tq. If they can make that engine rev out decently well, I think a lot of people's complaints would go away. Using Toyota architecture will keep the weight down vs SGP too. Which using an NA engine will likely keep it under $30k. Too much involved to develop a lightweight high torque turbo RWD car to make this story believable IMO. But I would accept being proven wrong.
I agree, I think 225-245 hp and 180-200 lb-ft are realistic numbers for an NA FA24. They could also take a lesson from Mazda and put it on an aluminum diet to get the weight down some more.

Since the ND2's power bump, increased redline and low curb weight, I've seen very few complaints about it needing more power.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:01 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Oh here we go....
Just add a 3" downpipe = 400+ hp

Wrong thread? Ehh.. still applies.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:55 PM   #304
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I'll believe the 2.4 turbo when it's production ready...and as far as pricing, IF it's turbo no way the base model will be less than $32,500..Old/New/currency/inflation Blah BLah BLah, current base is $29,500 (+/- $200) with delivery depending on location....either way, glad they are continuing the model, I'd be good with 2.4 N/A 230HP/200TQ range
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:59 PM   #305
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No turbo, no care. We’ll see.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:37 PM   #306
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Even a NA version of the future 2.4 STI motor would be a big upgrade.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:55 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Even a NA version of the future 2.4 STI motor would be a big upgrade.
Maybe at sea level. Cut 30% RWHP/TQ for us high altitude folks.
I do not do N/A 4 bangers up here.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:01 PM   #308
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Hmm why not the 1.6t with Toyota heads. I bet they could get some decent HP and torque. Granted everyone would be upset but they could easily use an electric motor for low range and a nicely sized turbo for the top everything up top.

BlitZ
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:39 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
Hmm why not the 1.6t with Toyota heads. I bet they could get some decent HP and torque. Granted everyone would be upset but they could easily use an electric motor for low range and a nicely sized turbo for the top everything up top.

BlitZ
I would assume cost would play a role. Modifying it would also kinda suck, especially if youre putting on larger turbos and have lag city.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:52 AM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'redwagon View Post
All the time - I got my WRX in 2002 for $22K, and by 2008, it was in the mid $20s, with the STI in the low $30's, and the 2015s were in the high $20s with the STI up in the mid $30s. Each generation seems to be a bump of roughly $3,500-5000 in base price. Which is all I'm talking about. I'm saying they project the deflation of currency exchange or currency in general for the next ~10 years and that is one of the factors of setting the base price. So saying that they shouldn't raise the base price on the next gen, because the previous gen was X dollars (10 years ago) presents a challenge.

I agree that once you get into the $40K range, there is more competition, but that competition has always been there. Mustangs have always been there offering cheap power, and Toyota has brought out different generations of the Supra, Celica, etc. I don't think they're concerned about muscle car buyers. As mentioned, the 86/BRZ is a 718/Cayman at less than half the price. I'd say that that's more of their target market, and they're still the cheap option in that world, next to the Miata.

2002 WRX MSRP = $23,995
2008 WRX MSRP = $24,350
2015 WRX MSRP = $27,885

I believe the 2002/2008 price was pre-destination and 2015 was with destination price added. I was vague as I believe another person was talking pricing of one year to the next.....example......2014 to 2015.

The price from one year to the next is typically about $300. Add that by 7 years and, yes, you have your big jump. I apologize for not being clear and apologize that I had an edit ready when I got called to help a customer and forgot to hit enter. By the time I got back, yeah, well......

My amendment was to ask when they've had such a price increase that didn't include a good amount of content upgrade. BASE price increase for the next gen, MY opinion, based on the 2015 price above won't touch $30K.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:40 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
2002 WRX MSRP = $23,995
2008 WRX MSRP = $24,350
2015 WRX MSRP = $27,885

I believe the 2002/2008 price was pre-destination and 2015 was with destination price added. I was vague as I believe another person was talking pricing of one year to the next.....example......2014 to 2015.

The price from one year to the next is typically about $300. Add that by 7 years and, yes, you have your big jump. I apologize for not being clear and apologize that I had an edit ready when I got called to help a customer and forgot to hit enter. By the time I got back, yeah, well......

My amendment was to ask when they've had such a price increase that didn't include a good amount of content upgrade. BASE price increase for the next gen, MY opinion, based on the 2015 price above won't touch $30K.
Looked through all the base+dest pricing since the WRX came here in 2002. The increase includes both MSRP and Destination increase. All Base Manual WRXs.

Year / MSRP / Destination (Included in MSRP) and Increase by year....

Code:
	MSRP	Dest	Increase
2002	$24,520 		
2003	$24,820	550	$300.00 
2004	$25,170	550	$350.00 
2005	$25,620	575	$450.00	2 Price increases during model year
2006	$25,620	625	$-   
2007	$25,620	645	$-   
2008	$24,995	645	$(625.00)	
2009	$25,690	695	$695.00 	265hp bump
2010	$25,690	695	$-   
2011	$26,220	725	$530.00 
2012	$26,345	750	$125.00 
2013	$26,565	770	$220.00 
2014	$26,790	795	$225.00 
2015	$27,090	795	$300.00 
2016	$27,390	795	$300.00 
2017	$27,515	820	$125.00 
2018	$27,855	860	$340.00 
2019	$28,080	885	$225.00
--kC

Last edited by KC; 01-14-2020 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:41 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
Hmm why not the 1.6t with Toyota heads.

BlitZ
Why Toyota heads? Whenever Toyota designs a new sports car engine they have the heads designed by Yamaha.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:00 PM   #313
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adjusted for inflation, a 2002 WRX was $34,845.52 in 2019 dollars.

just a reminder how things get cheaper over time except for taxes (inflation is a tax)
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:04 PM   #314
godfather2112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
adjusted for inflation, a 2002 WRX was $34,845.52 in 2019 dollars.

just a reminder how things get cheaper over time except for taxes (inflation is a tax)
Not to go down a rabbit hole but until recently, a lot of salaries and pay did not keep up with inflation.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:09 PM   #315
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Base manual WRX
Quote:
2002 $24,520


That's the window sticker on my manual 2001 2.5RS. $4k difference from a top performance trim Impreza to the next generation top performance trim Impreza.

That's ultimately what is at play here if the twins go way higher on the performance meter with changes in power and weight and all that. Power and weight changed drastically from the RS to the WRX as did the MSRP, while package stayed basically the same.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:28 PM   #316
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I still fondly remember walking around a local Subaru lot in 2000 and a dozen brand new 2.5RS's sitting there lined up nice and pretty all in a row...

*sigh*
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:31 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Not to go down a rabbit hole but until recently, a lot of salaries and pay did not keep up with inflation.
yeah. it's an employers friend, in that sense. Probably unintentional consequences of the Fed's continuing malfeasance.

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-Douglas Adams
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:53 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
I still fondly remember walking around a local Subaru lot in 2000 and a dozen brand new 2.5RS's sitting there lined up nice and pretty all in a row...

*sigh*
Yeah I remember those days. They must have made a bunch before ending the run and switching to the bugeye. KC posting pics of that meet back in the day in OT brought back fond memories. Seeing one GC is exciting, but a bunch all lined up gets the car boner pegged.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:00 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Not to go down a rabbit hole but until recently, a lot of salaries and pay did not keep up with inflation.
They still aren't imo. In my sector the pay scales aren't much different than they were in 2002-2004. Same sh *t
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:19 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
adjusted for inflation
Your unicorn needy a friend.

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Old 01-14-2020, 07:33 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Your unicorn needy a friend.





Had they offered that with the performance package, Id probably have gotten it. Id have put it on proper gold, though.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:04 PM   #322
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I thought it was weird. I had to double check they didn't.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:22 PM   #323
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The interior on that one is nice. The lack of brembos is not.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:00 PM   #324
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You can always put the brembos on after the fact, its not exactly hard.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:32 PM   #325
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I took a long look at that special edition.

It confirmed that getting these OZ wheels should look great on the Unicorn.



I really need to get some fresh street coils and new wheels to remind me why I love my RS.
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