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Old 05-24-2012, 01:24 AM   #1551
punchjamesarnol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
I have been researching how to better read spark plugs and I came across this picture. All I can say is damn, I thought my plugs looked bad! I have no idea what did that but whoever owns that motor is screwed!

WTF???
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:57 AM   #1552
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I'll bet the piston had some chunks missing.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:13 AM   #1553
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Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
What are the chances 2 injectors on the same side are spraying more fuel. Still think it's something else. Swapping both left and right will rule that out.
1 in 6? But it's not like that's the only possibilty. Just one I thought he could check.

Last edited by kakarot09; 05-24-2012 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:16 AM   #1554
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I had the injectors flow tested 500 miles ago and they all came back good. I looked at the flow sheet and sure enough, two of them flow a bit more than the others. I dont have the sheet in front of me but i know that it was about an 8cc difference. I am going to Swap the injectors very soon.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #1555
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Just because they tested good, doesn't mean a bit of debris or something didn't get through and mess em up, right? I mean I certainly hope a fuel filter does what its supposed to but in your case, wouldn't it be nice if it was just a dirty injector? I bought new ones and they sat. 6 months later I sent them out again for service and they came back with better numbers. Not by much but slightly better!
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:02 PM   #1556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
I had the injectors flow tested 500 miles ago and they all came back good. I looked at the flow sheet and sure enough, two of them flow a bit more than the others. I dont have the sheet in front of me but i know that it was about an 8cc difference. I am going to Swap the injectors very soon.
The 8cc difference isn't the issue. 8cc out of 1260 is less than 1%. That's at high flow rates anyway not at idle. The issue is that the low pulsewidth variation in flow can be much much higher unless the set is dynamically matched.
This explains it better than I could ever hope to.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/dynamicmatch.html

It still may or may not be the issue. I just thought it was worth a look. I don't think many people would notice this issue if they had it because they just don't have the same attention to detail that you do. Most people do not remove the spark plugs at 500 miles and check them if there are no obvious issues.

Last edited by kakarot09; 05-24-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:09 PM   #1557
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I was just thinking about the stock ROM and their per cylinder injector compensations. Maybe its time to start tuning fueling on a cylinder by cylinder basis. I'm sure the Hydra has the technology.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:53 PM   #1558
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I followed Phil's instructions and went for a drive at 3000-4000 RPM and here's the results:




The left plug is from Cyl 4 which still looks a touch rich but much better. The right plug is from Cyl 3 which looks like its been running very lean.

Last edited by dexterous; 05-24-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:57 PM   #1559
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Are those new?

Give us side shot showing the ground strap, and a above shot showing the fire ring / electrode. The only thing the porcelain portion of the plug is good for is looking for signs of detonation.

If you're going to read plugs over 40, you're going to need a 10x eye loupe, as well

S.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:01 PM   #1560
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what was the injector pulse width during the cruise?
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:15 PM   #1561
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Just out of curiosity, and ease of experimentation cause my motor is in my living room... I ran some tests, since my ground strap might not be in the "ideal" location.

Since I pulled my motor apart in a whirlwind motion trying to get the motor out of the house for another NASIOCer, I dont even know where the "right" position is, easily found though.

On the passenger side, I have my strap tucked into the bottom of the intake manifold where the fuel rail used to mount, nice clean virgin aluminum.

I tested the resistance between this location, and the valve cover - 0.3Ω
Not bad.
Tested the resistance across the valve cover itself - 0.3Ω.

Didn't believe it, so I tried it again, switching probes around for S&G. Same result.

Either I found a good alternate location, or the mounting location is not that important as long as a good solid connection. The thing with the IM mount I was worried about was that I am using phenolic spacers. But clearly the 8 bolts secured to the frame are diong a good job as a conductor. ... Thoughts?

I just feel like this would take away the argument of GND strap.
Thanks,
Layvon
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:15 PM   #1562
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Just out of curiosity, and ease of experimentation cause my motor is in my living room... I ran some tests, since my ground strap might not be in the "ideal" location.

Since I pulled my motor apart in a whirlwind motion trying to get the motor out of the house for another NASIOCer, I dont even know where the "right" position is, easily found though.

On the passenger side, I have my strap tucked into the bottom of the intake manifold where the fuel rail used to mount, nice clean virgin aluminum.

I tested the resistance between this location, and the valve cover - 0.3Ω
Not bad.
Tested the resistance across the valve cover itself - 0.3Ω.

Didn't believe it, so I tried it again, switching probes around for S&G. Same result.

Either I found a good alternate location, or the mounting location is not that important as long as a good solid connection. The thing with the IM mount I was worried about was that I am using phenolic spacers. But clearly the 8 bolts secured to the frame are diong a good job as a conductor. ... Thoughts?

I just feel like this would take away the argument of GND strap.
Thanks,
Layvon
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:57 PM   #1563
dexterous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
Just out of curiosity, and ease of experimentation cause my motor is in my living room... I ran some tests, since my ground strap might not be in the "ideal" location.

Since I pulled my motor apart in a whirlwind motion trying to get the motor out of the house for another NASIOCer, I dont even know where the "right" position is, easily found though.

On the passenger side, I have my strap tucked into the bottom of the intake manifold where the fuel rail used to mount, nice clean virgin aluminum.

I tested the resistance between this location, and the valve cover - 0.3Ω
Not bad.
Tested the resistance across the valve cover itself - 0.3Ω.

Didn't believe it, so I tried it again, switching probes around for S&G. Same result.

Either I found a good alternate location, or the mounting location is not that important as long as a good solid connection. The thing with the IM mount I was worried about was that I am using phenolic spacers. But clearly the 8 bolts secured to the frame are diong a good job as a conductor. ... Thoughts?

I just feel like this would take away the argument of GND strap.
Thanks,
Layvon


I had very similar results when I tested the same thing a few weeks ago.

Last edited by dexterous; 05-24-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:06 PM   #1564
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:16 PM   #1565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakarot09 View Post
what was the injector pulse width during the cruise?

The only real change that I made prior to driving the car was to lower the minimum pulse width to .3ms. It was previously set at .5ms and I couldn't get the car to lean out at idle. The best it would idle was 11.2:1 and now it idles at 13.2:1. As far as I can tell, it has also eliminated any visible smoke that the car was producing at idle and while driving.

I am not sure how to convert the duty values in the Hydra 2.6's base fuel map to pulse width. Any suggestions?
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:16 PM   #1566
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3 looks lean, for sure...though I'm not sure what a 3k to 4krpm plug is supposed to look like...I usually read them immediately after a full pull / pass.

By "ground strap", I was referring to the spark plug...not engine / chassis grounds.

Ground strap=heat range
Fire ring=mixture
Porcelain=bad stuff

S.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:26 PM   #1567
dexterous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2xlr8n View Post
Are those new?

Give us side shot showing the ground strap, and a above shot showing the fire ring / electrode. The only thing the porcelain portion of the plug is good for is looking for signs of detonation.

If you're going to read plugs over 40, you're going to need a 10x eye loupe, as well

S.
I assume the ground strap is the hook thing at the top, right?
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:35 PM   #1568
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Cyl 3:
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:35 PM   #1569
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Cyl 4:

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Old 05-25-2012, 12:22 AM   #1570
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you idle at 13.2 and before at 11.2 wtf loooloooooooooooooool

idle has to be 14.6 , 13.2 is bad for your cylinder walls
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:37 AM   #1571
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Originally Posted by Bariga View Post
you idle at 13.2 and before at 11.2 wtf loooloooooooooooooool

idle has to be 14.6 , 13.2 is bad for your cylinder walls

This^^

Makes it tough to seat rings, huh?
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:54 AM   #1572
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to seat rings you need 10 psi for about 6 pulls
mine not seated yet i'm running at 5psi
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:41 AM   #1573
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If he followed phils break in then he should be fine. Which he has 500 miles on it now so im sure he did like so.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:46 AM   #1574
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Imagine that, Bariga knows more than everyone here again! Anton when you going to start your own shop cause you know it all brotha!?
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:51 AM   #1575
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Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
Imagine that, Bariga knows more than everyone here again! Anton when you going to start your own shop cause you know it all brotha!?
lol its in his nature lol. if he started a shop it would stripping them down right anton lol
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