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Old 07-28-2012, 06:17 PM   #1826
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:14 PM   #1827
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I picked up my car from Cobb Tuning in Plano yesterday and I'm tuned on there speed density and I can't believe how tame it is with huge cams and over 550 whp you'd think it was stock till you mash it to the floor and scare the $hit out of yourself
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:37 PM   #1828
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I didn't see a 'thank you' in there for several of your local friends who have been telling you over and over again to ditch the Hydra and run a stock ECU.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:20 AM   #1829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
I didn't see a 'thank you' in there for several of your local friends who have been telling you over and over again to ditch the Hydra and run a stock ECU.
LOL. OK, thank you Shek!
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:21 AM   #1830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shilohb View Post
I picked up my car from Cobb Tuning in Plano yesterday and I'm tuned on there speed density and I can't believe how tame it is with huge cams and over 550 whp you'd think it was stock till you mash it to the floor and scare the $hit out of yourself

I wish I wasn't so far away form them.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:26 AM   #1831
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Quote:
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I wish I wasn't so far away form them.
For the price of the few times you got a Phil tune, couldn't you swing one Cobb tune?
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:56 AM   #1832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
For the price of the few times you got a Phil tune, couldn't you swing one Cobb tune?
OUCH
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:40 AM   #1833
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Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
LOL. OK, thank you Shek!
So when do you get tuned? We need to hit up Nelson Ledges afterwards!

Last edited by MRF582; 07-31-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:40 AM   #1834
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Damn, thats nuts
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:50 AM   #1835
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Originally Posted by buddsautoparts.com View Post
OUCH
Now I don't mean to say his rate is expensive; I mean to say that Dex spent a lot of money getting his car there in addition to paying for the tunes. Phil's a great guy, don't get me wrong.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:18 AM   #1836
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......

Last edited by CatfaceType-R; 07-31-2012 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:23 AM   #1837
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Hydra banter. Not my cup of tea.

Last edited by CatfaceType-R; 07-31-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:29 AM   #1838
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I just do not see the need for a aftermarket ecu when the stock one can handel it
With hydra and other management you loose the check engine light, the security system so the key fob dosent work and you loose cruise control.
I don't know about you but I want my cel to work on a really high hp build
Oh and my car is 562 whp on a access port.. and cobb uses mustang dyno
The same dyno a 2011 gtr puts down 420 whp stock

Last edited by shilohb; 07-31-2012 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:20 AM   #1839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Now I don't mean to say his rate is expensive; I mean to say that Dex spent a lot of money getting his car there in addition to paying for the tunes. Phil's a great guy, don't get me wrong.
Dex, knows what I mean by this. We have discuss this at great lengths.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:32 AM   #1840
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...........

Last edited by Moore Performance; 07-31-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:30 PM   #1841
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I love how fingers get pointed and the mob mentality kicks in. If Tom would have listened to me and not the tons of misguided information here about the Hydra, about his avcs, about tuning, and just focused on the fact I told him this was a fuel related issue he would have saved a lot of time and money.

He had two bad fuel injectors, not a Hydra problem. If Tom doesn't want my help or his Hydra that's his choice but he knows I've always had best interest at heart.

The Hydra has a proven track record with GST running it and could be the fastest time attack car in the world, and the fastest drag Subarus out of PR have run it.

Run whatever you want but we have over 3 cars with stock engines pushing 400+ with over 100k miles on Hydras and that says a lot.

Last edited by Element Tuning; 07-31-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:12 PM   #1842
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Phil, with the stock ecu's continually increasing tunability, the hydra capabilities are just not needed, especially if the stock heads(terrible) and intake manifold(worse) are used, the stock ecu is the best option.
it's also no extra cost, tunable by far more people, and has worldwide, renowned reliability in millions of cars.

now in this very specific, well documented case, if Tom didn't have to trailer his car to your place hundreds of miles every time for a tune(or to find out something was wrong like a bad injector) he would have saved thousands of dollars on top of the cost of the hydra and meth setup, months of planning, your time, and you know, been enjoying his car. what we all do this for, right?

lots of people swear by megasquirts, and win races with them. I'm not knocking the hydra or your achievements with it, i am lauding praise on the stock ecus and their ever increasing tunability. maybe you should revisit them?
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:23 PM   #1843
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.........
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:13 PM   #1844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhs377 View Post
Phil, with the stock ecu's continually increasing tunability, the hydra capabilities are just not needed, especially if the stock heads(terrible) and intake manifold(worse) are used, the stock ecu is the best option.
it's also no extra cost, tunable by far more people, and has worldwide, renowned reliability in millions of cars.

now in this very specific, well documented case, if Tom didn't have to trailer his car to your place hundreds of miles every time for a tune(or to find out something was wrong like a bad injector) he would have saved thousands of dollars on top of the cost of the hydra and meth setup, months of planning, your time, and you know, been enjoying his car. what we all do this for, right?
There is absolutely a need for high resolution, highly tunable, and more heavily featured engine management systems. Lets face it nobody thinks they need a $1200-$2200 Hydra but I've sold thousands and I can count the number who have purchased it before any other tuning solution. These happen to be the guys with 100k miles +whp on stok engines but my point is this. The factory ecu lacks resolution to run really high power or high boost pressure, major idling issues, false knock, false misfires, stalling when clutching in, limp mode, and no ability to run any high rpm, real time knock control. These are the issues customers on stock ecus face that have extensive mods.

There is a place for both products and both products have a range which bang for the buck lines up. While i don't think the Hydra is required for many, for others its a must, and there are very few people with well tuned Hydras that ever want to go back to a stock ecu. There is a very clear and distinct difference in the way the two drive that no dyno plot could describe. I also would have less engine business if oem ecu tuning went away so I trust me I profit more from that than I do from Hydra sales.

Plenty of room in the market place for either solution and if there wasn't so much demand for Hydra tuning and new platform development I would tune oem ecus more for low power stuff but i just don't have the time.

While I would love to say congratulations Tom you got it all sorted out and I hope you live happily ever after, this isn't likely the case.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:44 PM   #1845
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Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
The factory ecu lacks resolution to run really high power or high boost pressure, major idling issues, false knock, false misfires, stalling when clutching in, limp mode, and no ability to run any high rpm, real time knock control. These are the issues customers on stock ecus face that have extensive mods.
Phil, I mean no disrespect and I don't want to jump on Tom's thread, but these statements are not 100% true. I've built and tuned a TON of high power Subarus utilizing the stock ecu and COBBs AP and have never had these issues. On top of that the car retains stock driveability, idle, and fuel economy. The new COBB SD updates give you a large VE map for SD fuel control, bigger than what is offered with the Hydra with better resolution.

I have several cars on built engines and ID2000 injectors that start on the first hit of the key, idle rock solid, drive great, and make awesome power.

The stock knock control works great even at high rpm, high power, and E85. You also have alot of tables to adjust the knock thresholds to dial it in for a particular combination. On high power cars I check the plugs to verify anyway.

On top of that, from a tuner stand point, the COBB software is more refined and much more user friendly than that of the Hydra.

Is there a market for both of these? Absolutely. Are you giving the new developments with the stock ECU enough credit? I don't think so.

Nate
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:00 PM   #1846
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Originally Posted by SlowboyNRS View Post
Phil, I mean no disrespect and I don't want to jump on Tom's thread, but these statements are not 100% true. I've built and tuned a TON of high power Subarus utilizing the stock ecu and COBBs AP and have never had these issues. On top of that the car retains stock driveability, idle, and fuel economy. The new COBB SD updates give you a large VE map for SD fuel control, bigger than what is offered with the Hydra with better resolution.

I have several cars on built engines and ID2000 injectors that start on the first hit of the key, idle rock solid, drive great, and make awesome power.

The stock knock control works great even at high rpm, high power, and E85. You also have alot of tables to adjust the knock thresholds to dial it in for a particular combination. On high power cars I check the plugs to verify anyway.

On top of that, from a tuner stand point, the COBB software is more refined and much more user friendly than that of the Hydra.

Is there a market for both of these? Absolutely. Are you giving the new developments with the stock ECU enough credit? I don't think so.

Nate
TPG
Completely agree with this. Phil, if you really feel that way about the stock ECU then your knowledge of it is outdated. Perhaps it's time to revisit it. At the very least, do it to see what you're up against.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:01 PM   #1847
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^^^^^^


You can adjust knock threshold and sensitivity in the stock ROM now? I did not know that.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:08 PM   #1848
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You can using the COBB ProTuner software! Im not sure of the availability on some of the stock ROMs using ECUflash/RR. It would depend on the xml and the ROM.

For reference, here are the tables available, per ecu, with the COBB Software:

https://static.cobbtuning.com/cobbtu...Table_List.pdf

Nate
TPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
^^^^^^


You can adjust knock threshold and sensitivity in the stock ROM now? I did not know that.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:37 PM   #1849
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Dex who did the tuning on the Cobb this round?
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:08 PM   #1850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning


While I would love to say congratulations Tom you got it all sorted out and I hope you live happily ever after, this isn't likely the case.
That quote makes me never want to business with you again
How can you possibly say that to him after what he has gone through that's like me saying I hope you live happily ever after hope you don't wreck your sti again ... but that's not likely the case.. real professional!!! and you do not even tune stock ECUs using cobb how do you truly know what they are capable of
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