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Old 09-10-2014, 03:21 PM   #76
quantum13
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Originally Posted by Jonnyfive View Post
Run quantum. Run far away. Don't get sucked back in.
haha no worries there. just wanted to thank Dennis. i'll be back to post another UOA when the time comes.
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:55 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
one of the biggest issues with THE young and dumb pups is that THEY dont realize that some of us have become VERY knowedgeable about these kinds of things after studying them for...mmmm..well...over 10 years, now....and that study is ONGOING.....

and SOMETIMES it behooves the chumps and idiots and kiddie boiz and all the rest of the kiddie hangers on to STOP with THEIR bullsh it and REMEMBER that some of us have been trained and schooled mechanics for longer than YOU have been ALIVE.

so lets not turn this into a kidiot fest with all sorts of inane comments by the kiddie, KNOW NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT LUBRICANTS AND LUBRICATION, krew



It sure would be nice to see you present some of your infinite wisdom (if it really exists) in a manner that is helpful instead of coming across as a douchebag. How about I call it 'the uncle scotty douchebag challenge'?
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:04 PM   #78
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

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Originally Posted by quantum13 View Post
great info Dennis thank you. very very helpful. this will definitely help me and others i'm sure. given that the oil is quite thin now, i can see why running it longer than 2k miles isn't a great idea even if other parameters look 'OK'

But as far as viscosity goes, typical Resource Conserving 5W-30's don't end up that much thicker than the FF. It's not unusual to look up any 5W-20 uoa and the viscosity can be thicker than a WRX uoa running 5W-30 (Euro xW-30's being the exception).

That's why Uncle Scotty gets so irritated. Yes, the engine is new, but Subaru turbos have always been tough on oil and we've been having these these same discussions since the WRX came out. IIRC, the 2.5's are harder on oil than the original 2.0's. Introduce DI into the picture, and I don't think the results will be much better.

And don't let US's short temper get to you. Heck, I'm starting to feel left out because he hasn't razzed me in a while. Let me post my Motul uoa. That'll get him going.

Look up WRX oil recommendations on bitog using google. Typically, people that haven't actually owned a turbo Subaru might recommend 5W-30. People with actual experience will usually recommend "The Holy Trinity". RT6, M1 0W-40, or German/Belgian Castrol.

I will say that the few '15 WRX uoa's look better than the '14 FXT DIT uoa's from last winter. In one case a guy had 6% fuel dilution and his oil was shot in about 1,200 miles. I'll see if I can find it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...topics/3365996

-Dennis
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:54 PM   #79
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Double Post.

Last edited by wiUFsh; 09-11-2014 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Double.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:56 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
But as far as viscosity goes, typical Resource Conserving 5W-30's don't end up that much thicker than the FF. It's not unusual to look up any 5W-20 uoa and the viscosity can be thicker than a WRX uoa running 5W-30 (Euro xW-30's being the exception).

That's why Uncle Scotty gets so irritated. Yes, the engine is new, but Subaru turbos have always been tough on oil and we've been having these these same discussions since the WRX came out. IIRC, the 2.5's are harder on oil than the original 2.0's. Introduce DI into the picture, and I don't think the results will be much better.

And don't let US's short temper get to you. Heck, I'm starting to feel left out because he hasn't razzed me in a while. Let me post my Motul uoa. That'll get him going.

Look up WRX oil recommendations on bitog using google. Typically, people that haven't actually owned a turbo Subaru might recommend 5W-30. People with actual experience will usually recommend "The Holy Trinity". RT6, M1 0W-40, or German/Belgian Castrol.

I will say that the few '15 WRX uoa's look better than the '14 FXT DIT uoa's from last winter. In one case a guy had 6% fuel dilution and his oil was shot in about 1,200 miles. I'll see if I can find it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...topics/3365996

-Dennis
You're ignorant if you think typically only people without previous turbocharged Subarus would recommend 5W-30. Most drivers do, and will continue to, abide by factory recommendations. Only a choice few of us frequent these threads to find out the truth... if a truth exists.

Last edited by wiUFsh; 09-10-2014 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:15 AM   #81
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
You're ignorant if you think typically only people without previous turbocharged Subarus would recommend 5W-30. Most drivers do, and will continue to, abide by factory recommendations. Only a choice few of us frequent these threads to find out the truth... if a truth exists.

Needed to say that twice? What do you mean "without previously turbocharged Subaru's". We're not even discussing n/a cars here. Find out "the truth"? Are you drinking and watching X-files with no lights on?

Perhaps I should have said it's likely that more enthusiast minded people run thicker oils in turbocharged Subaru's. But no doubt you have statistical data that has been vetted by a third party to back up your claim of "most drivers".

What "factory recommendations" are you referring to? Perhaps the part that states thicker viscosities are required in high temps? Do you have a manual provided by FHI? The owner's manual was written by Subaru of America.

"Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers."

Yes, many people do run Resource Conserving 5W-30 for hundreds of thousands of miles without issues. And there is one trend of several uoa's on the old Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 from a WRX where it did nicely in a highway driven, unmodded car. But that seems to be the exception rather than the rule and I've always believed in running the proper grade for YOUR application.

A few years ago, I got into a debate at IWSTI where an "engineer" claimed it was completely unnecessary to run a thicker oil unless you are tracking the car. And he was going to back up his claim by posting a trend of 7,500 mile oci uoa's in his STI. I'm still waiting on the first uoa.

My patience is wearing thin and I'm about to go Uncle Scotty up in here.

-Dennis

P.S. - If you're serious about uoa's, you should switch to a lab that provides a bit more useful information. Actual fuel readings, oxidation, nitration are more helpful than what you got.

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-11-2014 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:52 AM   #82
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You don't need to be defensive. Second of all, you're the one that said "haven't owned a turbo Subaru" in your post. The manual for the 2015s only states 5W-40 "conventional" may be used for replenishment. I know that statement is wrong in many ways so I'm coming right out and saying that I don't beleive it.

Oh yea... and most drivers means that the majority of turbo Subaru drivers do not use NASIOC and harrass and belittle each other like we're doing. Do you disagree that only a small percentage of WRX and STi actually use this site? Or rather, care to discuss their oil? I think that's a pretty easy assumption to make so please refrain from your "smart" comments.

Last edited by wiUFsh; 09-11-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:12 PM   #83
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... so please refrain from your "smart" comments.

Shall I obtain approval from you before posting any comments here?
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:09 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
You don't need to be defensive. Second of all, you're the one that said "haven't owned a turbo Subaru" in your post. The manual for the 2015s only states 5W-40 "conventional" may be used for replenishment. I know that statement is wrong in many ways so I'm coming right out and saying that I don't beleive it. Oh yea... and most drivers means that the majority of turbo Subaru drivers do not use NASIOC and harrass and belittle each other like we're doing. Do you disagree that only a small percentage of WRX and STi actually use this site? Or rather, care to discuss their oil? I think that's a pretty easy assumption to make so please refrain from your "smart" comments.
You know what...?

Think what you wish, believe what you want, do as you please.... we get it. You disagree. Good for you.

Now move on to something else.


Cheers.
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:12 PM   #85
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You know what...?

Think what you wish, believe what you want, do as you please.... we get it. You disagree. Good for you.

Now move on to something else.


Cheers.
I don't disagree. Most of the information found on NASIOC about oil is helpful. I just haven't seen anything really useful in this thread yet. It's just that when people (such as yourself) post that there is no downside to running a 40 weight oil and that timing chains are new to Subarus lead me to question their credibility.

I see the plus side to running a 40 weight oil; in racing applications and areas where temps are hot. Otherwise, in colder regions of the country and normal daily driving a 30 weight is more than adequate.

Now please run along to your EJ oil threads. "Yea brah... T6 FTW!"
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:37 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
Now please run along to your EJ oil threads. "Yea brah... T6 FTW!"
2.0 DIT elitist?

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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
I just haven't seen anything really useful in this thread yet.
Why would you? You've got two uoa's with about 3k combined miles.

Quote:
... Firstly, it is important to realize that you get what you pay for. The most common forms of UOA are limited in their scope. It is a case of if you pay more you get more. So my comments here relate primarily to the “simple” UOAs – the cornerstone of those appearing on BITOG
Secondly, it is easy to assume that by carrying out a UOA you will be able to determine how quickly the engine is wearing out. As well, if you change lubricant Brands you will be able to compare the wear metal uptake results and then make a balanced best lubricant choice to make your engine last longer.

Sadly that logic is seriously flawed.

Single pass (random) UOAs will provide some information regarding wear metals but unless you have a history of your engine’s performance up to around 1 million miles the results are simply that – UOA results! As an example a limit of 150ppm of Iron is a reality – after say 100k it means the lubricant should be changed and all is well. But what is the situation if you have 150ppm of Iron at 5k? Where would you look what would or could you do? So UOAs are really a diagnostic tool – one of many!

The other parts of the UOA Report will be much more valuable to you – it will tell you about the CONDITION of the lubricant and its suitability for further use. This will enable you to get the maximum safe use from the lubricant saving a valuable resource in the process.

With some knowledge and experience you may be able to determine if you have a fuel or cooling system problem – and you will be able to see the level of potentially damaging contaminants such as silicates, soot and etc. You may be able to monitor the levels of additive depletion too. In a low use engine the TBN (if taken) will seriously indicate if the lubricant is still able to minimise corrosion and its effects and this will help to prevent cam lobe pitting etc....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-11-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
[...]I see the plus side to running a 40 weight oil; in racing applications and areas where temps are hot. Otherwise, in colder regions of the country and normal daily driving a 30 weight is more than adequate.[...]
Which is why Dennis said to run whatever works for YOUR application.
And "normal" daily driving needs to be defined as driving long enough at highway speeds to get the oil nice and hot.
Otherwise, for short distances with a lot of stop and go traffic or a lot of idling, an RC 5W30 might not be best either.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:50 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
I don't disagree. Most of the information found on NASIOC about oil is helpful. I just haven't seen anything really useful in this thread yet. It's just that when people (such as yourself) post that there is no downside to running a 40 weight oil and that timing chains are new to Subarus lead me to question their credibility. I see the plus side to running a 40 weight oil; in racing applications and areas where temps are hot. Otherwise, in colder regions of the country and normal daily driving a 30 weight is more than adequate. Now please run along to your EJ oil threads. "Yea brah... T6 FTW!"
Keep it civilized... I think YOU said that... but only if people agree with you, right...?

And timing belts being new to SUBARU, hmmmm. Prior to 2011, none of the 4 cylinders used a chain. So, yes, timing chains are relatively new to SUBARU 4 cylinders. And on the WRX, timing chains are brand new to the car... sorry, your point was...?

And your previous comments about not using a 40 grade oil at start-up in the winter demonstrate your clear lack of understanding about multi-grade motor oil. Not a good idea... you said. Sorry, but 0w40 means what ...?

What EXACTLY is the downside to running a slightly thicker, 40 grade oil...? Please, enlighten us....
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:32 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by geeman789 View Post
Keep it civilized... I think YOU said that... but only if people agree with you, right...?

And timing belts being new to SUBARU, hmmmm. Prior to 2011, none of the 4 cylinders used a chain. So, yes, timing chains are relatively new to SUBARU 4 cylinders. And on the WRX, timing chains are brand new to the car... sorry, your point was...?

And your previous comments about not using a 40 grade oil at start-up in the winter demonstrate your clear lack of understanding about multi-grade motor oil. Not a good idea... you said. Sorry, but 0w40 means what ...?

What EXACTLY is the downside to running a slightly thicker, 40 grade oil...? Please, enlighten us....
The 0 implies the level of protection at start up.

The 40 is the level of protection at operating temp.

So let me get this right... You're suggesting using an oil that does not offer enough protection at start up and is possibly too thick at normal op temp. Interesting....

Do you know what tribology is? Please refer to Wiki to get your Friction 101 lesson and then let's discuss what effect temperature, velocity, and viscosity have on hydrodynamic bearings.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:43 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
The 0 implies the level of protection at start up. The 40 is the level of protection at operating temp. So let me get this right... You're suggesting using an oil that does not offer enough protection at start up and is possibly too thick at normal op temp. Interesting.... Do you know what tribology is? Please refer to Wiki to get your Friction 101 lesson and then let's discuss what effect temperature, velocity, and viscosity have on hydrodynamic bearings.
You just lost any credibility you think you had...! Thank you for confirming that you know next to nothing about motor oil...!

CHEERS.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:45 PM   #91
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I apologize for being wrong. Please fill in what I left out. I would like to understand.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:38 PM   #92
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

^ I missed the cold comment. geeman is being even funnier than I am.


The first number represents the apparent viscosity of oil at -30C in the case of a 5W and -35C in the case of a 0W. It doesn't (necessarily) tell you anything about the viscosity at ANY other temp. So whether you're talking 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40, or 5W-50, they all must pass the same test with a maximum viscosity of 6600 mPa's at -30C.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm

And for clarity, the second number is the grade and the grade represents a viscosity range when measured at 100C.

Back to the discussion regarding following the owner's manual recommendations, why would you not follow the maintenance booklet in regards to the first oil change interval?

-Dennis


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-12-2014 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:21 AM   #93
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Thanks, bluesubie. I knew all of that but didn't use so many words. I didn't feel like reading an article and posting exactly what was written there to make myself look smart.

We are avoiding the tribology discussion. I've tried to have it before on another thread and nobody wants to play.

As far as the factory fill oil interval, I suppose I like to waste my money. Dealers where I'm from have practiced the 1000 mile drain policy for many years without any consequences. Is it right? Eh, who knows. Is it hurting the engines? Nope. Why would the the manual tell people to change their oil every 2000 miles? I don't think that would go over well.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:41 AM   #94
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

Some people think that the first number on the bottle represents viscosity at cold start in any temp (you said at start up), or in freezing temps, so I just wanted to make it clear that it's well below freezing.

If you contact Idemitsu Lubricants of America they would tell you to follow the OEM recommendations not the dealers'.

There is probably no statistical public data to show whether or not changing the factory fill early is a problem. Although, I would love to see data on the oil guzzling FB owners that gave their cars an easy break-in and changed the factory fill prior to 3k or 3,750. Based on ongoing internet threads since 2011, I know a LOT of forum posters followed this process.

The point that I'm making is that although you're trying to stick to the owner's manual in regards to recommended oil grade, you didn't stick to it for the initial oil change interval.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-12-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:13 AM   #95
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i think im being edited out here

that is just wrong.
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:53 PM   #96
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Hey, just changed my oil and my oil canister isn't see thorough so I did my best at putting in the required 5.4qts... I think I put more like 5.6 anyways when your'e checking the level on flat ground when cold is 5.4qts supposed to be right in the middle of the stick? Or is 5.4qts the minimum that brings you to the low marker...?

Thanks!
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:58 PM   #97
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Yes. That has been my experience. I put 5.4 qts in my 2015 and it was slightly less than halfway. When you drive around to warm the oil up, shut the car off, and let it sit for a few minutes you'll see the oil will be full when you check it again.
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Old 09-29-2014, 11:43 PM   #98
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I think I put like 5.7 quarts in. It's full on one side and slightly over on the other
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Old 10-14-2014, 01:09 PM   #99
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Going to try and revive this thread!

What's the best oil for our '15's? I've read countless threads but no-one gives a direct answer. I'm picking up mine next week and want to stock up so I'm ready at the 1k mark. At the moment I want to steer clear of T6 until I have a bit more miles on her. I have it narrowed down to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 or Motul 8100 5w/30. I don't plan on doing any racing or auto cross. Just a fun daily driver (city driving during the week)
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Old 10-14-2014, 01:27 PM   #100
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Hi jbed1203. This is a touchy subject for sure.

I think you're making the right choice by not running with T6, especially since you're doing mostly daily driving. I know there are plenty of people who agree with me and there are plenty who don't.

I am running the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 in my Rex right now. I will have my first UOA result with this oil in about 1000 more miles. In any case, I feel that Motul 8100 or the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum will be great. Just stick with a high quality 5W-30 synthetic and an OEM oil filter and you'll have no problems.

Better yet, I suggest you run the Motul 8100 in your FA20DIT and do an analysis when you get the miles on that oil. You'll be helping the community out by giving us different oils to compare.
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