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Old 04-20-2015, 02:58 PM   #26
gsantosr
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any updates on how HPGO works? My trans/diff oil change is due and I'm between HPGO and Motul for the 2011 STi
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:06 AM   #27
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So now what?? I need to change my tranny oil ,big time, on my 6MT STI 94K miles and no way i will experiment their HPGO, the transmission is bulletproof because all those years we used this outstanding Extra-S all around… what can I use now as mineral oil? what is the deal with this shell spirax?
and ENEOS GL-5?
what a headache! Corporation keep going cheap on us for more $$$.
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:42 PM   #28
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The HPGO feels great in my 18 year old, 269k mile, Legacy Outback 5MT. Ran some cheap Coastal 75/90 through it for about 100 miles since it had been a long time between fluid changes, but I can feel a difference between the original oil, the Coastal 100 mile trip and now the HPGO. Much smoother on the HPGO. Will be using it in my 6MT STi when I change the oils.

Ive seen no complaints about the HPGO being a bad oil, just that its not the original ESGO.

The idea that the 6MT is bullet proof because of the ESGO is ludacrous. Trans and other lubricated components do not fail out of the blue due to the "wrong" oil. Wrong as in, its formulated for trans and I used it in my trans and my trans failed. Thats not how it works. They are far more likely to fail due to contamination, from never changing the oil, from allowing the oil level to run low for an extended period of time, from using an oil that is much too thin or too thick for the application, or from using an oil that is clearly not intended for that application, for example using gear lube in an auto transmission. It might not run as well, though I would imagine that anyone who has since put it in, if it was garbage, would have said it was garbage already since the switch happened November last year and I cant find anything "bad" posted about the HPGO. And Ive seen people claim X or Y oil went bad in less than 5k miles. If you do enough research, you will see that there is no magical answer here, which is part of the reason this topic is so broad and hard to pin down an answer. Different people, under different driving conditions, with different cars, all have different experiences with the same oil. Honestly, whats the worst thing that happens? You have to change the oild again? HPGO is not going to nuke your trans.
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Old 09-30-2015, 06:31 PM   #29
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I've recently changed the trans fluid in my 160k mile DD STI using the HPGO from Fred Beans and am not super happy with it. I'm not sure what fluid was in the 6MT previously, since I bought the car a year ago, but HPGO seemed to slightly degrade the shifting quality.

I have actually stumbled upon this thread researching why my shifting feels noticibly "notchier", especially when going into 4th. It's most obvious after higher speed driving, so I'm guessing it might have something to do with the temperature of the fluid.

The only other thing I've noticed is that my fluid is right on the F line, so I'm wondering if there is some foaming occurring. In which case I might drain a bit out and see if it helps. That being said, I've ran 5MTs past the full line with no issues for years... But perhaps the 6MT is different.

If the notchiness continues, I'll probably give another fluid a try.

Just my personal observation/experience.

Last edited by kainam00; 09-30-2015 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:26 PM   #30
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would foaming cause a noticeable effect in shift quality??
I also got the same kit and used all 4 quarts for the transmission
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:03 AM   #31
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I think the fluid is okay, as good as fresh/full motul 300 or better (which was not great, changed it out at 20k b.c. didnt like it), tranny did not really like it... the best so far was uncle scottys cocktail, despite what they say about the oil pump clogging due to shockproof... gonna go with the andrewtech cocktail next, 2 quarts motul 300 and 2 quarts lightweight shockproof.

The fred beans kit is definitely the cheapest at ~68 shipped with diff oil to boot.

Cheers!
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooster.online View Post
would foaming cause a noticeable effect in shift quality??
I also got the same kit and used all 4 quarts for the transmission
Either foaming or temperature is definitely causing a lot of issues for this fuild. The shifting is fine when I first start driving the car, or during city driving. However, after about 10-20 miles of freeway (70mph) 4th feels completely unsynchronized, and I have to double clutching or rev match. After this it will also grind once I get off the freeway, but gradually get better. Maybe the oil is just too thin? I did notice that it flowed a bit well when I was putting it in.

I drained sucked a bit (maybe 0.1-0.2 quarts) out, and confirmed the level is dead center between the full and low marks, but the problem continues. This is probably the most accurate transmission fluid level I've ever had in my 300k miles of various Subaru ownership/racing.

I just ordered some Motul 300 and will be swapping over as soon as it comes in. Maybe I'll send the stuff that comes out over to Blackstone so we can compare it to what was posted earlier in the thread, maybe it's a bad batch or something.
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:36 AM   #33
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Kainam00, How many miles have you been running the HPGO? What oil were you using prior to the HPGO fill (nevermind I read above - unknown oil)?

Last edited by JarHarms; 10-28-2015 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:02 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Kainam00, How many miles have you been running the HPGO? What oil were you using prior to the HPGO fill (nevermind I read above - unknown oil)?
~2k miles on the HPGO now
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by kainam00 View Post
Either foaming or temperature is definitely causing a lot of issues for this fuild. The shifting is fine when I first start driving the car, or during city driving. However, after about 10-20 miles of freeway (70mph) 4th feels completely unsynchronized, and I have to double clutching or rev match. After this it will also grind once I get off the freeway, but gradually get better. Maybe the oil is just too thin? I did notice that it flowed a bit well when I was putting it in.

I drained sucked a bit (maybe 0.1-0.2 quarts) out, and confirmed the level is dead center between the full and low marks, but the problem continues. This is probably the most accurate transmission fluid level I've ever had in my 300k miles of various Subaru ownership/racing.

I just ordered some Motul 300 and will be swapping over as soon as it comes in. Maybe I'll send the stuff that comes out over to Blackstone so we can compare it to what was posted earlier in the thread, maybe it's a bad batch or something.

thanks for the reply, I will be honest and say that I dumped all 4 quarts in without checking the level(because the car was on jack stands) so the fluid level ended up being up to the F mark (or higher) by the time I finished and had the car back on the ground. I've since checked in ~2 weeks later and it still remains at F(or higher) and I haven't had the chance to get under the car again to drain some( and likely won't because I'm a lazy SOB) but shift quality has still been tolerable/acceptable/slightly better than the full motul 300 I had in it before. I would go with the andrewtech cocktail as I believe it would have similar results to Uncle Scottys without as many clogging effects? (hopefully) (2 qts redline LW shockproof, 2 quarts Motul 300)

The cocktail has been the best performer I've had so far in my 3 different tranny fluid changes, but I also realize that my 6MT may be different as I have an 04 and obviously there are changes between the years. In any case, best of luck!
Interested in hearing any updates if you do go ahead and try something new!
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:22 PM   #36
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Default Subaru 75W-90 Gear Oils

On my 2nd HPGO mix in my 5MT. (1qt SPlightweight, 1/2qt synchromesh, and rest HPGO)
I feel this makes the mix more notchy than the prior mix. The prior mix actually had ESGO in the mix.

I'm keeping in mind that it's is a mixture and not strait fills of the comparing oils.

Last edited by JarHarms; 11-26-2015 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:22 PM   #37
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I switched from HPGO to Motul 300 a few weeks ago, and the 4th gear problem is completely gone. Shifting is smooth again, basically the same as it was before I put the new Subaru oil in in the first place.

A couple things of note -
* When I drained HPGO it was very foamy (see picture), the car has only been driven about 10 feet into the garage, and has been sitting for several days beforehand. I've changed Subie gear oil dozens of times, and have never seen it like this. Either something is weird with the oil itself, or it has somehow reacted with whatever was previously in there.
* No apparent metal particles came out when draining HPGO. Blackstone said wear looked good as well.
* I sent two samples to Blackstone - brand new HPGO that I had left over from the change, and the used foamy HPGO I drained from the transmission before putting Motul in. The fresh sample seems to match the one posted in OP (so it's not a bad batch). Note that Blackstone assumed it was Extra S, even though I made no mention of it and put HPGO on the little sheet.
* I asked Blackstone if there was something in the oil that would either cause, or fail to prevent foaming. Their response was as follows: "Some oils use silicon as an anti-foaming additive, but there isn't much in this oil. There isn't anything here that would show the oil is subject to foaming, so if you're having that type of issue, it's probably not due to the oil - at least not from what we can see."

My only other theory is that my transmission isn't in the best shape (160+k miles) and the oil, due to some property of it, makes the issue more apparent. Those who don't have problems with the oil have transmissions which are in better shape.

Blackstone reports attached as well.

TLDR: Subaru HPGO made my shifting notchy and 4th gear grind, though the data seems to suggest that the oil itself is just fine. I suspect foaming, though the cause is unknown (not overfilled). Switching to Motul 600 solved the problem.




Virgin sample:


Used sample:



Quote:
Originally Posted by kainam00 View Post
Either foaming or temperature is definitely causing a lot of issues for this fuild. The shifting is fine when I first start driving the car, or during city driving. However, after about 10-20 miles of freeway (70mph) 4th feels completely unsynchronized, and I have to double clutching or rev match. After this it will also grind once I get off the freeway, but gradually get better. Maybe the oil is just too thin? I did notice that it flowed a bit well when I was putting it in.

I drained sucked a bit (maybe 0.1-0.2 quarts) out, and confirmed the level is dead center between the full and low marks, but the problem continues. This is probably the most accurate transmission fluid level I've ever had in my 300k miles of various Subaru ownership/racing.

I just ordered some Motul 300 and will be swapping over as soon as it comes in. Maybe I'll send the stuff that comes out over to Blackstone so we can compare it to what was posted earlier in the thread, maybe it's a bad batch or something.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kainam00 View Post
I switched from HPGO to Motul 300 a few weeks ago, and the 4th gear problem is completely gone. Shifting is smooth again, basically the same as it was before I put the new Subaru oil in in the first place.
I had the same experience when I went from Subaru Extra S to Motul 300. Motul 300 is the way to go.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:14 PM   #39
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I just got around to changing my transmission and my rear diff for my 60k service. I've been driving with the HPGO for about 4 days now, my previous fluid was redline. I'm guessing that because I had my 30k service done at subie specialities and they use nothing but redline stuff. For the time I had redline in my car anything about 3500 rpm my gear switch was notchy. Some times switching to third I would get it as well that's just normal shifting. Now since I put in this Subaru fluid haven't felt that notchyness anymore but I also did upgrade my shift knob to a 490 gram so seems like switching gears is pretty smooth. Haven't really went into the high rpm to see if I get it like I did with the redline. My car is also a 06 wrx so it is the 5MT. Maybe the 6MT don't like it ? Idk but I also was seeing on here that the 5MT are picky as **** as well
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:21 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooster.online View Post
thanks for the reply, I will be honest and say that I dumped all 4 quarts in without checking the level(because the car was on jack stands) so the fluid level ended up being up to the F mark (or higher) by the time I finished and had the car back on the ground. I've since checked in ~2 weeks later and it still remains at F(or higher) and I haven't had the chance to get under the car again to drain some( and likely won't because I'm a lazy SOB) but shift quality has still been tolerable/acceptable/slightly better than the full motul 300 I had in it before. I would go with the andrewtech cocktail as I believe it would have similar results to Uncle Scottys without as many clogging effects? (hopefully) (2 qts redline LW shockproof, 2 quarts Motul 300)

The cocktail has been the best performer I've had so far in my 3 different tranny fluid changes, but I also realize that my 6MT may be different as I have an 04 and obviously there are changes between the years. In any case, best of luck!
Interested in hearing any updates if you do go ahead and try something new!
The wrx capacity is 3.7-3.8 quarts from what I seen, I'm guessing the STi might be around the same? I don't see how .2 quarts would do anything it's barley any fluid. Maybe 4.5 or more quarts might be way over filling it but i don't see how 4 would be. Even when I put in 3.5 my dipstick kept reading a little above the low line. I had my car Parked on the street next to the drive way and the passenger side jacked up, but from looking at the car head on my car looks perfectly leveled and I only jack it up high enough so I can squeeze under. I put exactly 3.8 and called it a day, I looked for leaks as well didn't see anything as far as my previous drain looked like a bit more then 3 quarts came out.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:48 PM   #41
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Have a bit over 1k on this HPGO I'd say so far it's been better than the redline that was in my car before.
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Old 01-20-2016, 02:29 PM   #42
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So is there nowhere to get Subaru Extra S anymore? I don't mind picking it up in a 5 gal bucket....
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:32 PM   #43
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So is there nowhere to get Subaru Extra S anymore? I don't mind picking it up in a 5 gal bucket....
It's discontinued
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker111 View Post
So is there nowhere to get Subaru Extra S anymore? I don't mind picking it up in a 5 gal bucket....

Clearly noted on 1st post that SOA dealers cannot order that part number anymore. It is still made but "essentially" discontinued in the U.S.
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:28 PM   #45
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No motul fans on this thread?
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:11 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachn View Post
No motul fans on this thread?
It's a thread about Subaru Gear Oil...
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:31 PM   #47
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My brother in law lives in japan, I asked him if he could find any there. He found the 5 gallon jug and it also came in like 2 gallon smaller jugs just with no label. He doesn't know if he can ship oil from Japan to US, and the price wasn't bad little cheaper than what I paid for the HPGO from Amazon. I just think the shipping rates from over there to here won't make it worth it.
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:16 PM   #48
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I did usps flat rate to Australia for a friend that wanted Penn synchromesh, 1 qt bottles stuffed inside.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soakedntorment View Post
My brother in law lives in japan, I asked him if he could find any there. He found the 5 gallon jug and it also came in like 2 gallon smaller jugs just with no label. He doesn't know if he can ship oil from Japan to US, and the price wasn't bad little cheaper than what I paid for the HPGO from Amazon. I just think the shipping rates from over there to here won't make it worth it.
Typically oil being shipped internationally requires a special container and handling (at least out/in Japan). If it's just put in a box and shipped, it was probably not disclosed as containing oil and will risk "problems". When I was sending oil samples back to Japan there were special containers with air seals and a shipping broker that would handle those shipments differently than metal parts. It was certainly more expensive and would likely make ESGO priced well over what it is worth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachn View Post
No motul fans on this thread?



Personally I'd still like to get a handle on what the eff the junk is we have found the bottom of new HPGO bottles. Precipitate drop out? Junk from manufacture that wasn't filtered out? Unicorn dandruff? I'm 85% sure this was not present when I poured out the lab sample, since I did look in the bottle to see fluid color. A few months later I noticed this...B S. It does not feel gritty to the touch. More so congealed like.

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Old 01-25-2016, 11:03 AM   #50
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Clearly noted on 1st post that SOA dealers cannot order that part number anymore. It is still made but "essentially" discontinued in the U.S.

Thanks. No overseas members that can get it? Military members?
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