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Old 08-30-2015, 10:56 PM   #1
lavaheadache
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Default Charge pipe differences?

Is there any room for real performance differences between the Aem, mishimoto and PRL charge pipes? I ask because the AEM pipe is $100 cheaper and I plan on getting the Turbo XS hybrid bov and wouldn't mind putting it up on display with the relocated bung on the AEM pipe. Also, my intake is AEM and aesthetically it would be nice to see some matching components. I've done some homework looking at the pipes and it is hard to tell if they are equal performers since AEM's pipe is only shown with stock tune increases while it seems others like the PRL is shown with post tune numbers. Any of the certified car gods on here care to chime in?
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Old 08-30-2015, 11:45 PM   #2
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My mishimoto one was made with poor quality. The pipe rubs on the upper coolant hose and my air box funnel.

My initial response from them was "well ours fits here so, you must have done something wrong"

I've pulled that pipe off 3 times. I have done nothing wrong and the pipe was welded wrong. Maybe one day I'll decide to cut it, weld it, and fix it, because mishimoto won't even acknowledge the fact that it was made improperly.

PRL looks like they've got the right idea. I'm not a big AEM fan.
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Old 08-30-2015, 11:59 PM   #3
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I agree with anjuna.

to me AEM comes off as kind of scammy. that and their recirculation kit wasn't available for release (all your air went straight to atmosphere) when the charge pipe came out. anyone who makes induction parts or tunes subarus knows that recirc is the only option with the MAF, anything else is a leak (including your hybrid bov ). would you buy something from a company that releases a product with that amount of planning and testing?

mishimoto is excellent at marketing, probably at your expense (selling intakes without cold air boxes, providing oiled filters, claiming huge gains without tuning, etc).

PRL however has a thread on here where they answer questions frequently, with dyno charts with both tuned and untuned parts installed. their stuff is aesthetically appealing too.

all that said, you'll probably like the cheap ass AEM pipe with your PSHHHHHT valve front and center, and won't notice any difference either way. personally id get a protune for that + the intake.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:09 AM   #4
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I have the AEM, without a doubt would buy the PRL. As a matter of fact, I would buy every damn product from them based on their forum presence. Seems like a legit company. They are also putting down 415WHP on E85 with their shop car stage 2. The numbers don't lie, they are doing something right.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:11 AM   #5
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Killer B all day everyday.

I got their J/I pipe, and I'm waiting for the release of their aftercooler/charge pipe combo.

They will always get my money.

Oh and **** mishimoto.....anyone who buys their crap is a chump. They are a rush to market company, and capitalize on people who just want the stuff as soon as possible. Every time I see that John guy on their videos, I laugh my ass off. That tone he takes trying to make their **** sound so cool is damn fake. How many times can you say Mishimoto in your Mishimoto install video your Mishimoto downpipe with Mishimoto adapter.

Last edited by Boggie1688; 08-31-2015 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggie1688 View Post
I'm waiting for the release of their aftercooler/charge pipe combo.
I can understand why their intercooler is the price it is, but $390 for a charge pipe is a little ridiculous.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _brian_ View Post
I agree with anjuna.

to me AEM comes off as kind of scammy. that and their recirculation kit wasn't available for release (all your air went straight to atmosphere) when the charge pipe came out. anyone who makes induction parts or tunes subarus knows that recirc is the only option with the MAF, anything else is a leak (including your hybrid bov ). would you buy something from a company that releases a product with that amount of planning and testing?

mishimoto is excellent at marketing, probably at your expense (selling intakes without cold air boxes, providing oiled filters, claiming huge gains without tuning, etc).

PRL however has a thread on here where they answer questions frequently, with dyno charts with both tuned and untuned parts installed. their stuff is aesthetically appealing too.

all that said, you'll probably like the cheap ass AEM pipe with your PSHHHHHT valve front and center, and won't notice any difference either way. personally id get a protune for that + the intake.
woah man... I do have a protune. BrenTuning, with a nice stage 2 setup with other goodies.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavaheadache View Post
woah man... I do have a protune. BrenTuning, with a nice stage 2 setup with other goodies.
okay, for some reason I thought you were just another person asking about BOVs and what parts they can run without a tune. I am interested to hear bren's opinion of that BOV though
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manley00 View Post
I have the AEM, without a doubt would buy the PRL. As a matter of fact, I would buy every damn product from them based on their forum presence. Seems like a legit company. They are also putting down 415WHP on E85 with their shop car stage 2. The numbers don't lie, they are doing something right.
you should sell me yours cheap then
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by lavaheadache View Post
you should sell me yours cheap then
LOL! PM me... I'm sure we could work something out.
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillo View Post
I can understand why their intercooler is the price it is, but $390 for a charge pipe is a little ridiculous.
It is... until you look at why that is. Then the justification for the price starts making sense.

To some, it doesn't matter they want cheap parts that offer any improvement over OEM. To others the quality, fitment, and features are worth the extra cost.

So starting at the bottom, we have a CNC'd billet aluminum 2-bolt adapter. The bellmouth transition reduces turbulence and we use tight fits on the bolt clearance holes to give nice concentric alignment to the turbo's compressor outlet as you'd find with port matching. Also a straight transition from the turbo vs mitered for less turbulent flow. Uses the stock style o-ring too.



The next bit is our designed "T" coupler. Smooth internal transitions and retains stock location of the BPV (OEM or aftermarket). Made from the best materials we could source.



The showpiece is the actually 'pipe' of the charge pipe. We uses stainless, which costs significantly more. The reason stainless makes a lot of sense here is that it does not transfer engine heat into the tubing nearly as much as aluminum. That and it is far more durable. In our own special twist (as far as I've seen), we use the largest bend radius on the market. The larger the bend the less turbulence and the higher the flow capacity.

* final production version does not have weld.



The last bit in the tract is the pipe to top mount coupler. Again, the best materials we could find.

The last bit is the hose clamps. We use full stainless steel high torque worm drive holes clamps with a smooth ID. These are time tested and we do not use or recommend anything else. We have significantly better luck with these than t-bolt clamps!

All engineering and design done in house. All materials, sourced from US Mills. All manufacturing done right here in the USA.
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:45 AM   #12
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We appreciate the kind words everyone!

Feel free to contact us with any questions!
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post

All engineering and design done in house. All materials, sourced from US Mills. All manufacturing done right here in the USA.
When will this be available?
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavaheadache View Post
Is there any room for real performance differences between the Aem, mishimoto and PRL charge pipes? I ask because the AEM pipe is $100 cheaper and I plan on getting the Turbo XS hybrid bov and wouldn't mind putting it up on display with the relocated bung on the AEM pipe. Also, my intake is AEM and aesthetically it would be nice to see some matching components. I've done some homework looking at the pipes and it is hard to tell if they are equal performers since AEM's pipe is only shown with stock tune increases while it seems others like the PRL is shown with post tune numbers. Any of the certified car gods on here care to chime in?
Although I cannot comment on the AEM or PRL (no experience with either), our charge-pipe setup is a nice upgrade over the stock unit. Aside from performance gains, replacing the factory plastic unit is a nice improvement in both aesthetics and long-term durability. We saw an improvement in turbo spool, which is depicted in the plot below.



When installed with our TMIC intercooler, the intake temperature drops were substantial. Have you upgraded the TMIC as well, or are you planning to just tackle the charge-pipe upgrade for now? Any tune on the car yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjuna View Post
My mishimoto one was made with poor quality. The pipe rubs on the upper coolant hose and my air box funnel.
My initial response from them was "well ours fits here so, you must have done something wrong"
I've pulled that pipe off 3 times. I have done nothing wrong and the pipe was welded wrong. Maybe one day I'll decide to cut it, weld it, and fix it, because mishimoto won't even acknowledge the fact that it was made improperly.
PRL looks like they've got the right idea. I'm not a big AEM fan.
Sorry to hear you are having issues with our charge-pipe. I do recall our earlier conversation regarding the pipe touching the radiator hose. We have not had many reports of issues in terms of fitment with this particular component, which is likely why we requested images of the product installed. Sending you an additional PM shortly to see what we can do for you, I was unable to find any of the images in my inbox.

-John

Quote:
Originally Posted by _brian_ View Post
mishimoto is excellent at marketing, probably at your expense (selling intakes without cold air boxes, providing oiled filters, claiming huge gains without tuning, etc).

PRL however has a thread on here where they answer questions frequently, with dyno charts with both tuned and untuned parts installed. their stuff is aesthetically appealing too.
Although we have a great marketing team, I would not consider us a “Marketing Company”. A ton of engineering work takes place here at our DE facility, most of which is highlighted within our engineering blog. Every product hitting shelves is carefully designed, tested, and perfected prior to release. Yes, we do offer some intake setups with or without an airbox. Although an airbox is obviously beneficial, some customers either prefer to run without one, or their vehicle setup will not allow it. We try offer as many options as possible in order to cater towards as many customers/vehicles as possible. The skepticism behind our power gains seems to always exist in some form. We would never release data that was not accurate or properly conveyed. Each product is tested thoroughly, and all gains are pulled from an average of consistent runs for each setup tested. This ensures we are not comparing a low run of the stock intake to a high run of our setup. Data from our product testing is 100% repeatable. In fact, one of our recent intake designs (BMW F30) did not make appreciable power compared to the stock setup. We were completely transparent about this and we are able to offer an intake that provides improved sound and aesthetics.

Sorry for the long response, just wanted to provide some clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggie1688 View Post
Oh and **** mishimoto.....anyone who buys their crap is a chump. They are a rush to market company, and capitalize on people who just want the stuff as soon as possible.
Providing improved performance and cooling components for brand new vehicles is something we always try to achieve. This is why we purchase brand new development vehicles, in order to start product design as soon as we can. Those purchasing a new vehicle are often seeking out ways to improve it, just as others with older vehicles are striving for. We want to provide the needed products as soon as we can, but not at the cost of a poorly designed product. All components are properly designed, tested, and perfected prior to release.

Thanks
-John
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:08 PM   #15
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^^ Its that guy John from the video. Hahahahahaha....

You can make a drinking game based on the number of times you say Mishimoto.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Boggie1688 View Post
^^ Its that guy John from the video. Hahahahahaha....

You can make a drinking game based on the number of times you say Mishimoto.
No, I am not on film in any of our videos. We have numerous employees named John here.

Thanks
-John
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:38 PM   #17
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To the OP, I weighed the AEM vs. the PRL kit recently myself before install and full tune. The AEM is a nicely bent 1-pc unit (they've always had nice seamless bent pipes) but the BPV location was very far up in the engine bay vs. factory and made little sense logistically. I'm not mounting a hybrid BPV up in the engine bay for anyone to see so it wasn't a consideration.

I went with the PRL product for a few reasons, and ended up with a fantastic tuned product in the end. The 2-piece kit allowed for easier installation, focus on the bottom half with factory BPV, and connector hoses. Place the top half and install the intercooler to fit. Plenty of clearance around all pipes and hardware. I installed a Perrin intake hose down low, and a intercooler to TB connector up top at the same time.

Their pipe bolts directly to the compressor housing with OEM hardware. If a coupler blows it's either going to be half-way up the charge pipe which you can get to easily with a screwdriver or up at the intercooler inlet. We had zero issues at 22+psi and 140mph on the dyno. The price was on-point as well. Got mine in a couple days after ordering. Never spoke to them but they seem friendly and eager to support. Good luck with your choice.
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:32 PM   #18
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Done.

Last edited by limitedcvt; 01-24-2016 at 11:23 PM. Reason: .
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
It is... until you look at why that is. Then the justification for the price starts making sense.

To some, it doesn't matter they want cheap parts that offer any improvement over OEM. To others the quality, fitment, and features are worth the extra cost.

So starting at the bottom, we have a CNC'd billet aluminum 2-bolt adapter. The bellmouth transition reduces turbulence and we use tight fits on the bolt clearance holes to give nice concentric alignment to the turbo's compressor outlet as you'd find with port matching. Also a straight transition from the turbo vs mitered for less turbulent flow. Uses the stock style o-ring too.


The next bit is our designed "T" coupler. Smooth internal transitions and retains stock location of the BPV (OEM or aftermarket). Made from the best materials we could source.

The showpiece is the actually 'pipe' of the charge pipe. We uses stainless, which costs significantly more. The reason stainless makes a lot of sense here is that it does not transfer engine heat into the tubing nearly as much as aluminum. That and it is far more durable. In our own special twist (as far as I've seen), we use the largest bend radius on the market. The larger the bend the less turbulence and the higher the flow capacity.

* final production version does not have weld.

The last bit in the tract is the pipe to top mount coupler. Again, the best materials we could find.

The last bit is the hose clamps. We use full stainless steel high torque worm drive holes clamps with a smooth ID. These are time tested and we do not use or recommend anything else. We have significantly better luck with these than t-bolt clamps!

All engineering and design done in house. All materials, sourced from US Mills. All manufacturing done right here in the USA.
It's a work of art honestly. That is THE nicest charge pipe I've come across.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Sorry to hear you are having issues with our charge-pipe. I do recall our earlier conversation regarding the pipe touching the radiator hose. We have not had many reports of issues in terms of fitment with this particular component, which is likely why we requested images of the product installed. Sending you an additional PM shortly to see what we can do for you, I was unable to find any of the images in my inbox.

Thanks
-John
I sent you an email with pictures last time we talked and again yesterday.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:38 PM   #21
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so far I see no concrete evidence as to the performance benefits of the *best* charge pipes and the AEM one. For performance reasons why spend $100- $200 more for the pipes mentioned in this thread?
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Old 09-01-2015, 03:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavaheadache View Post
so far I see no concrete evidence as to the performance benefits of the *best* charge pipes and the AEM one. For performance reasons why spend $100- $200 more for the pipes mentioned in this thread?
The reason to spend more money is because it is worth it. If you buy the AEM one you need to buy the recirculation kit for the stock bypass valve. Also the BOV location is so far from the turbo that the design is not great in my opinion. Also doesnt look great having the BOV there and the hoses running all the way back down. There are better designs and better products. For the money the PRL one is only around $70 more than the AEM (including the recirc kit) and its a better product. I am all for saving money for the same part but when it comes to this specific part stay away from AEM.
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:03 PM   #23
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you do not need a ~$25 recirc kit when those fittings and hose can be had for $10 elsewhere but yeah still have to spend a couple extra bucks for the AEM over what the charge pipe costs. I just want to know if there is a conceivable reason why the other kits would make more power?
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:25 PM   #24
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One of the great things about living in a free market economy is the fact that there are a variety of options available for the consumer. It also allows competitors to battle back and forth to improve their products and offer competitive pricing.

The term "best" will get thrown around time and time again, and basically come back to be a matter of opinion, whether influenced by a group of people or by individual experience.

The available charge pipe kits are going to be 1 piece or 2 pieces made of either aluminum or stainless. Aluminum has been the material of standard for intakes / charge pipe kits for due to the weight and heat transfer properties. The only real differences are going to be pipe diameter, fitment / ease of installation, weld quality, aesthetics, cost and how the company makes you feel. Most of the kits available (unless using cheap aluminum) aren't going to break, the quality is fine.

The real questions should be which charge pipe fits without issues, is easy to install, and what were your gains? All prices are within a reasonable ballpark, so pricing shouldn't really be an issue unless on a serious budget. If the gains (for the car or for personal reasons) are similar as well, then let the pricing be the deciding factor.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:46 PM   #25
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I ordered a charge pipe from PRL a couple weeks ago. Still waiting, but they have said that they're backlogged with orders. I'll post my results when I install it. I have no blind brand loyalty and no experience with PRL before (first Subie) so I'll do my best to give an honest review of their charge pipe (no tune on my car either).

I've heard mixed things about Mishimoto. Some products seem total hits while others seem like hard misses. I try to form my own opinion instead of just rolling with what a group of people say (that includes both good and bad notions). I see a lot of people trash AEM. I had a cold air intake on my RX8 for basically 8 years with zero issues on fitment, quality, etc. I definitely considered buying from AEM again. In the instance of the charge pipe, does anyone have a specific reason they keep saying the BOV placement is a bad design? Other than you have extra hoses? I got a great deal on my PRL pipe but I would still at least look at the AEM pipe for $75 cheaper for a bit of hose work.
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