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Old 12-13-2019, 05:37 AM   #1
Hyper
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Default PS pump relocation

Anybody brave (or mad) enough to swap PS pump and alternator around? I have seen this done once on a rally car, but can no longer find pictures

they also did this on several WRC cars, but that's too hardcore since they dropped PS pump down to where the header is

I want to do this, because all my PS lines and tank are relocated to the other side, so it would make things more tidy
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:15 PM   #2
speedyHAM
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I have not done it, but was looking into an electric PS pump to take the pump off the front of the engine. It shouldn't be that hard to do.
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Old 12-29-2019, 03:45 AM   #3
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I considered retrofitting Mini PS electric pump, but have my doubts on this route
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Old 01-01-2020, 01:54 AM   #4
speedyHAM
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What doubts? I was looking at relocating it into the passenger footwell area for better weight distribution (autoX specific car- not DD).
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Old 01-02-2020, 07:34 AM   #5
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I used a volvo PS pump. It's not too bad. I put it in the stock battery location through the fenderwell. It's got an integrated reservoir. The wiring is pretty simple to run it in "default" mode.
Flow/Pressure is on the low side especially for a 15+ STI rack but I have no complaints.
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:48 PM   #6
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I've looked into some electrical PS pumps and they are either very loud, or don't provide enough pressure

this has taken an unexpected turn, and I am researching retrofitting EPAS column from Toyota
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:49 AM   #7
speedyHAM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
this has taken an unexpected turn, and I am researching retrofitting EPAS column from Toyota
Cool. The hard part with those is getting the tuning right.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:26 PM   #8
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I'd seen numerous electric over hydraulic systems, and most with good results.

However the newer electric assist ones have caught my eye.

I'd seen this one, surprisingly cheaper than most others like the EPAS.

https://www.superatv.com/universal-p...hoC8J0QAvD_BwE


I'd actually seen this video just the other day. He actually had an electric over hydraulic in the Miata at some point before this.

Chevy Cobalts (later 00's) also have an electric column that can be found for cheap.

Edit: Looked up the years for the Chevy columns I mentioned.
Part Compatibility:
2005-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt
2006-2011 Chevrolet HHR - exc SS
2007-2010 Pontiac G5
2005-2006 Pontiac Pursuit
2003-2007 Saturn Ion

Toyota Prius are also an electric column, and those are pretty abundant as well. Guess I'll start looking into the pricing of the harness/plugs, control modules and power steering modules between them.

Numerous Ebay sellers selling complete Prius kits for ~$250. I'd want to see about how to add the potentiometer to adjust wheel weight.

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 01-08-2020 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:47 AM   #9
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Yes, there are a lot of DIY kits, but junkyard takeoffs are a fraction of the price and easy to replace

I would stay away from US made EPAS systems (GM stuff), because unlike JDM units, when their controller fails the electric assist is disabled, and on JDM units (Toyota for example) if the controller fails the electric assists stays at full

As for potentiometer and JDM units, I have found the following:

1. they take VSS, and adjust effort according to the controller logic, usually the effort increases up to 80km/h, and then stays the same. You have to be careful when selecting the OEM takeoff because all new ones use CAN to transfer data, so figuring that out is going to be a bitch. Old Yaris, Corolla and some other pre MY07 cars use regular ones that will work fine

2. Controller looks at the difference between the torque sensor and steering column rotation sensor, and applies assist accordingly. This one is tricky to modify

this article talks about this mod but its not exactly what I was after

Ideally I want to map out a signal from my ECU to have the assist I require at a given speed, but I don't see how to do this with the JDM takeoffs yet....
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:43 PM   #10
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Thought about deleting PS myself and going electric, but not 100% sure yet.
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:17 PM   #11
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Hyper told me he's looking to pick up a Prius set up. I think I might be doing the same to dive into the mechanical side of things.
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Hyper told me he's looking to pick up a Prius set up. I think I might be doing the same to dive into the mechanical side of things.
I looked into the EPAS systems when I did my electro-hydraulic solution.

My biggest hangup was the rack once you go that way. De-powering a rack really doesn't seem like the "correct" way to have a manual rack. I know a lot of people do it but in talking with some steering people it sounds like the hydraulic fluid performs more functions in the rack than just assisting steering... like supporting bearing for the pinion and other junk that i'm sure i'll just mispeak about.

Custom racks that fit in a subaru style steering system are prohibitively expensive for anything worthwhile... and even then most of the manual racks are hard to find in a ratio you'd want to use with an EPAS.

I also didn't want to depower my expensive new 15+ STI rack. So electro-hydraulic for me... for now.

The Subaru electric steering rack that has been fitted into other subarus just seems massive where you don't want it to be massive.
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:16 PM   #13
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On another note I've been doing a decent amount of fooling around with CANbus since i have a Link ECU, 2007 STI ABS, and an ECUMaster Dash in my 04FXT. I've also done a CANbus fuel pump controller and some other random little projects to dabble.

If the prius CANbus system for the steering is somewhat easy to connect to maybe I could scan the canbus and figure out what the addressing is. Then you could tie in a little canbus module to the stock VSS signal and send the appropriate signals to the steering.

Depending on what year car you have you may even be able to get some signals off the ABS module to send over to the prius steering rack if it uses it.

https://www.therangerstation.com/how...ps-conversion/

There's a fairly detailed article. Looks like the speed signal is a pulse waveform. Looks like you'd just need to emulate over CAN whatever it needs to be "happy".
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barge View Post

My biggest hangup was the rack once you go that way. De-powering a rack really doesn't seem like the "correct" way to have a manual rack. I know a lot of people do it but in talking with some steering people it sounds like the hydraulic fluid performs more functions in the rack than just assisting steering... like supporting bearing for the pinion and other junk that i'm sure i'll just mispeak about.

Yes, this is my other concern as well, I have the same info based on my research

Our racks were designed to work with hydraulics aiding it moving left and right, and with this mod you are basically putting a lot of stress on the pinion part that will eventually wear it out, pretty quickly
So to do it right, it the pinion needs to be modified for full manual use, and I am not in a hurry to mod my "one of the last in existence Q-racks"

In my case, I am trying to use older pre-CAN stuff, so most likely its going to be out of E120/121 corolla
I can emulate any PWM signal out of Autronic, so that's simple

but yes, what you are describing could work, although I am not sure how to pack PWM signal into CAN message


Having said that, I still plan to go ahead with this mod (without modifying the rack first) and see how it works, I got a spare steering column which I experiment on
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:00 PM   #15
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I look forward to seeing how it goes.

Being able to delete the hydraulics totally would certainly be nice.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:30 PM   #16
GrpB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
make things more tidy
Just a thought, an integral reservoir to the pump like the old style NA cars makes things very clean, just one set of lines direct from rack to pump/reservoir. I only put one bafffle in this but it worked well.


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Old 02-04-2020, 10:07 PM   #17
Homemade WRX
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The problem with internal reservoir is the lack of fluid volume and cooling options.

The idea of going electric is to all clear up space on the engine.

I agree that with a powered rack, going to essentially 'manual' is the pinion has a higher load. Whether it will be detrimental or not, I'm not necessarily buying off on that. I get the concern but....
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:07 PM   #18
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I saw an older style pump on a drift STI in my area. So i ordered one and gave it a shot.

I ordered a 1998 impreza pump with the res on top from ebay. I welded on an AN -6 adapter and (because of my setup) had to cut it for clearance.
I did not relocate it, still stock location and bolts up nicely. I imagine it wouldn't be so hard to fab a bracket to hold the pump, just get it straight and use the alternator to tension it.













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