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Old 09-18-2003, 05:07 PM   #26
Kenneth2000
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I forgot to mention, http://www.need4speedpower.com also sells "GTA"

GTA is a completely safe, full hydrocarbon type product. It doesn't necessarily boost octane per say, but it helps give a more "complete" combustion by adding visco-elasticity to the fuel.

You only use 2 oz's per 15 gallons of gas.

I used it in my WRX for two years, it definitely lowered my egt's by almost over 100 degrees, increased my gas mileage, etc......
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:58 AM   #27
ToddStratton
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth2000


I'm sure, in small quantites, it won't harm anything. Torco told me that they have not had any complaints or problems from people who use it daily or occasionally .....

We'll see
Since you've been using it, you could get an oil analysis done after your next oil change. www.blackstone-labs.com

It may give you an idea if there is any abnormal wear or odd particles making their way into the oil. Since you don't have a baseline (before using Torco) it may be hard to tell.

TRS
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:57 PM   #28
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I fit a curve to the three points provided by Kenneth2000 to figure what the results for the STi will be. Note that I don't completely trust these numbers, especially for boosting 91 to 93. Just extrapolating from those three points gives results that don't match up right at zero concentration ( I get that a whole can added to a 25 gallon tank of 91 does nothing) and at full concentration (torco added to zero gallons gives about 109 octane).

Here is a plot that shows how much boost you get from how much torco for the STi tank. I only trust this plot in the middle. It is not right for very large or very small amounts of Torco.



Going from 91 to 93 is too small an amout of this stuff for me to trust this calculation much ffor that application. What happens with a whole can of torco is more trustworthy.
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:09 PM   #29
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thanks for the graph, looks good.
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Old 09-24-2003, 12:52 AM   #30
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Sorry for the late reply but here are the instructions straight off the can.

Treatment ratio with 32ozs of Accelerator:

97 minimum octane race fuel, treat 20 gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline.

104 minimum octane race fuel, treat 10 gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline.

107 minimum octane race fuel, treat 5 gallons of 93 octane minimum race fuel.

Obviously us West coasties have a lower base octane to start with so our numbers will vary slightly.

Now we just need a mathmatition to calculate which way is cheaper. The Torco wins hands down on ease of use and storage. Not to mention the major hazard (cancer) tolulene poses.

Note on the can states that it contains NO alcohol or any other oxygenated components. Does contain petroleum distillates and other trade secret and proprietary ingredients.

Hope this helps. I have used it in my Lightning pushing 15-16 pounds of boost with great results.
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Old 09-24-2003, 03:11 AM   #31
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The price is depends on what target octane you want, if my above plot is correct. When a whole can of Torco is used, and octane is boosted from 91 to 98, then Torco is cheaper:

Torco: $14.00
Xylene: $17.12

If you just want to go from 91 to 93, and my extraopolation from the mixing instructions on the can are correct (see the plot below) then the Xylene is cheaper:

Torco: $9.68
Xylene: $4.89

All this assumes Xylene at $4/gal (which can be had at that price from Sherwin Williams in 55 gal drums), and torco costs $14/can.

In 5 gal containers, Xylene costs $6/gal from Sherwin Williams. If this is the case, the cost to boost to 98 is $25.68, and to boost to 93 is $7.34. So even buying 5 gal at a time, Xylene is still cheaper than Torco for boosting the octane a little.

So the cost conclusion is (if extrapolating the mixing instructions works):

For raising the octane a little: Xylene
For raising the octane a lot: Torco

Edit:

Here's a link to the Excel spreadsheet I wrote to make these calculations.

Last edited by cgroppi; 09-24-2003 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 09-24-2003, 07:03 PM   #32
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I found this post on a supra list that has some of the MSDS for torco accelerator, so here it is:

Ingredients.
This product is a blend of light petroleum distillate,cas #8000-61.9.
Which contains benzene, cas*71-43-2 at 0.1 to 4.9%. May also contain a proprietary multifunctional additive and/or methyl tertiary butyl ether (mtbe) cas*1634-04-0-4.
Depending on origin. Contains a proprietary multifunctional additive package. (Ingridients with * in cas number are subject toreporting recuirements of section 313 emergency planning & community right-to -know and 40cfr372)

So, it looks like it doesn't have any TEL or MMT in it. I doubt that either one would be protected under the "right to know" act. Still sounds like some pretty nasty stuff...
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Old 09-24-2003, 07:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by remowgn
I found this post on a supra list that has some of the MSDS for torco accelerator, so here it is:

Ingredients.
This product is a blend of light petroleum distillate,cas #8000-61.9.
Which contains benzene, cas*71-43-2 at 0.1 to 4.9%. May also contain a proprietary multifunctional additive and/or methyl tertiary butyl ether (mtbe) cas*1634-04-0-4.
Depending on origin. Contains a proprietary multifunctional additive package. (Ingridients with * in cas number are subject toreporting recuirements of section 313 emergency planning & community right-to -know and 40cfr372)

So, it looks like it doesn't have any TEL or MMT in it. I doubt that either one would be protected under the "right to know" act. Still sounds like some pretty nasty stuff...
so...benzene is the secret ingredient?
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:21 PM   #34
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Unless “proprietary multifunctional additive” = TEL and/or MMT

Benzene is certainly not responsible for the advertised octane increases. It has an octane rating of 115. 10% Benzene = 2 octane increase with typical pump gas. Plus Benzene is a Cat 1 carcinogen, and is a Federally regulated substance.

Xylene that is commonly used as a do-it-yourself fuel additive (like that found at paint supply stores) is a different form (mixed isomer) than that found in laboratory supply stores (single isomer). But the lab-grade single isomer variety is hard to obtain and obscenely expensive (like $100/gallon). The paint-variety Xylene is lower octane than Toluene.

MTBE is an oxygenate.
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Old 09-30-2003, 03:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by bcblues
Unless “proprietary multifunctional additive” = TEL and/or MMT

Benzene is certainly not responsible for the advertised octane increases. It has an octane rating of 115. 10% Benzene = 2 octane increase with typical pump gas. Plus Benzene is a Cat 1 carcinogen, and is a Federally regulated substance.

Xylene that is commonly used as a do-it-yourself fuel additive (like that found at paint supply stores) is a different form (mixed isomer) than that found in laboratory supply stores (single isomer). But the lab-grade single isomer variety is hard to obtain and obscenely expensive (like $100/gallon). The paint-variety Xylene is lower octane than Toluene.

MTBE is an oxygenate.
Tha's interesting. What is the octane rating of commercially available xylene? A friend has been using xylene to boost his 91 octane, and has not been having good luck (still getting the ping). He might not be using enough. Toluene seems to work well, but is hard to get since it is (or at least people think it is) an ingredient in methamphetamines.

I agree that "proprietary multifunctional additive" is the secret ingredient, not benzene. Some people think toluene and xylene are scary, but they're nothing compared to benzene.

I still want to know what the active ingredient in Torco concentrate is. None of that stuff is going into my car until I know.
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Old 09-30-2003, 08:56 PM   #36
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Silver-Bolt... I see you're in Portland, but Oregon didn't have any distributors listed on it's website- where do you get it??

I too, am anxious to learn what the "secret ingredient" is. It sure would be an easy way to insure a safe track day or RallyX.

Thanks,
Russ Rainforth
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Old 09-30-2003, 10:53 PM   #37
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Guys, if Torco made a really crappy product, and sold it to everyone and busted their crap ... how many customers would they have?

They've been in business for some time.. not some fly by night operation. The mix all kinds of actual race fuels too ..... (their main line)

You can buy from here, they ship anywhere in the U.S.

http://www.need4speedpower.com/torco.html
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:10 PM   #38
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That's true, Kenneth2000, but my use would not be what it was designed for. Many people with STis are looking for something to compensate for the crappy 91 octane gas they're forced to buy. Torco markets Accellerator as a race fuel concentrate for use at the track. I might be using it in every single tank of gas, every week for the whole time I own the car. I'm sure Accellerator is just fine for occasional use. Using the stuff every tank of gas is another question alltogether. I want to know if it's safe for this application. Not just for weekends, or 5000 miles, but for 100000 miles.
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:37 PM   #39
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I am certainly not saying that the Torco Accelerator is crap. It may do exactly as advertized, but if it does, it likely contains TEL, which will ruin your cats and O2 sensors very quickly. Klotz Titrate is another product that sounds similar. It DOES contain TEL, and they make it clear that it does so that consumers can make informed decisions about using it in their vehicles. BTW, the Hitrate also improves octane significantly in very small quantities.

Personally, I will continue to use aromatic hydrocarbons, (specifically toluene), because it is a common blending agent that refineries/distributors add in significant quantities already (so it will not hurt your fuel system). It is also a proven perormer, and it is relatively convenient to purchase and use. I frequently travel to a track event with a few gallon cans in my trunk and use a funnel to add it to my tank when I get to the track.

Many additives that improve octane are really nasty, health-wise. Benzine and analine are two of the worst. They are highly toxic. All the aromatic hydrocarbons are proven carcinogens, so try to limit your contact with them. You should be carefully funneling them into your tank, not sloshing them all over your hands and car anyway. TEL is another toxic substance, as are most of the other chemical additives (as opposed to aromatic hydrocarbons). Remember, regular pump gasoline contains tolene already (up to 40%, I believe is acceptable, but most formulations include 5-15% - I could be off on this, I am going from memory). Be careful out there, but not paranoid.
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:43 PM   #40
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Well, I'd agree that they market it as a "Race Fuel Concentrate"

But surely, it can't be much worse than adding a paint thinner to your fuel on a daily basis to up octane? ..... (referring to Xylene/Toulene)

I once told a service tech what I was doing .. he was like "What"?

I guess the only way to find out if it is going to be detrimental to our cars is for us to test it. I'm testing it right now ... pushing 5,000 miles so far I'll keep everyone posted.

To be absolutely safe, and knowing there is absolutely nothing wrong with running GTA every day ... that might be something for you to try ..... click here : GTA Fuel Enhancer

If I remember right, there is TEL in the "leaded" version, the unleaded version has MMT in it ... I don't know what quantities.

I don't personally have any cats on my car, and the O2 sensor I am very willing to replace once every 6 months to a year if that's what gets ruined ... I'll see though ...
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Old 10-01-2003, 01:06 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth2000

But surely, it can't be much worse than adding a paint thinner to your fuel on a daily basis to up octane? ..... (referring to Xylene/Toulene)
Like bcblues said, premium gas already has at least 10% toluene and/or xylene in from the refinery, so yes, it can be worse. That's why premium gas has higher octane in it than regular. The Gasoline FAQ gives info on the composition of different grades of pump gas.

Since the gas Subaru calls for already has a significant amount of xylene/toluene in it, increasing the concentration by another 10-15% is not likely to do anything. Running high concentrations of MMT all the time is likely to do bad things.

I have all my cats, so anything with a lot of MMT will get very expensive. If it was only an O2 sensor at risk, I wouldn't care either. Your experience will be valuable for all of us. Please let us know if you get O2 sensor fouling. If you do, all of us with our cats are likely to have them go too.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:01 AM   #42
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Just an update ...

I've now been using the Torco Unleaded version for 10,500 miles in my STi ...

It is still working great ... and I have yet to see one side affect ...

I will continue to use it on a daily basis.

http://www.need4speedpower.com/torco.html
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:46 AM   #43
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Torco flat out works. I did a quick and simple test.

I mixed half a can (medium mix ratio on can) with 5 gallons of 87 octane base fuel and ran 25 psi boost with no knock.

I saw knock retard on the 87 octane with 15 psi boost.

Whetever is in it....works.
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:50 AM   #44
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Xylene is very corrosive to rubber. Tolulene is safer and cheaper.
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Old 03-06-2004, 11:27 AM   #45
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4sfed 4 :

That's pretty cool, I'm glad it worked out for you ...
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Old 03-22-2004, 05:12 PM   #46
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i guess i'll chime in too...

i've been mixing 16 ounces per tankful for awhile and it has cured my pinging and seems (subjective opinion alert) to have improved throttle response and a bit in mpg although i need more tankfuls to smooth out the variations. not hard to believe though since the car was tuned at the factory for 93 or better. but at $6.50 additional per fillup, not a bad alternative until there is a plug-n-play tuning solution. i'll be ordering larger quantities to bring the price down also. i am not affiliated w/need4speed, btw.

mark
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Old 03-22-2004, 05:56 PM   #47
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I've used some of this stuff as well as friends of mine and it does indeed seem to work as advertised. Hard to believe that the 32 ounce can of that stuff can raise 10 gallons of say 93 octane to that high of a level.
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Old 03-22-2004, 09:50 PM   #48
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Thanks for the update, folks. Interesting. I wish I knew exactly what was in it.....
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:18 PM   #49
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I'll chime in again here, hard to believe it was 6 months ago I posted in this thread....


The stuff works great. I'm on my first tank of gas with half a can of torco in it, and I am really really impressed! Seems to work better than when I had a gallon of tolune in a tank of gas. Boost comes on much sooner than with just plain cat-piss 91 octane. I don't have a boost gauge, but the car pulls strongly from 3000 rpm onwards now, whereas it used to not "kick in" until 4000 rpm or so before. It makes launching the car SO much easier.

I'm sold on it, for sure... I'm gonna have to order myself a case of it!
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Old 04-02-2004, 12:54 AM   #50
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Good to hear!

Not that this would really apply to us, but, here was a dyno run done on a completely stock Integra Type R with the Torco Unleaded mixed to 10 gallons ... I guess it gained 5.9 HP and 3.3 lbs of torque .... on a stock car!



http://www.need4speedpower.com/appie...tegra_TypeR_12

http://www.need4speedpower.com/torco.html
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