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Old 02-14-2001, 09:46 AM   #1
deadbolt
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Post SOA disappointed with WRX results? (LONG)

I was talking with one of the reps from SOA today about the WRX. He said that he was in Cherry Hill, NJ at HQ on Friday speaking with several people about the release of the WRX, the dealer meeting next month, and other topics. He said that SOA's overall reaction to the market interest was very good with the introduction of the new model. Unfortunately he said that they were quite disappointed that the new car had not even been released and already dealerships were selling the cars at very-near-invoice prices. He said that several of the "higher-ups" there said that due to this they did not anticipate that lease residual values or the resale of the cars would be much to brag about. Although the car has received such great press, and glowing reviews, not to mention the fact that this market has been clamoring for it for the past 4 years they have already had mention from FHI reps that the US market should not have gotten the car. He said that the FHI rep that was there said, "We had intended to create more excitement and demand for the product in the American market, and yet it seems this vehicle is being viewed by even current Subaru owners as just another offering." Makes you wonder if they will cancel it after only a couple of years. Like I said in the other post, it is sad that we have in effect, done this to ourselves.
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Old 02-14-2001, 09:49 AM   #2
rao
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With all due respect, that is a bunch of nonsense. Why should subaru enthusists pay more than the market price for ANYHTHING? Maybe they can send a letter to everyone who buys a WRX and ask them to send in $500 directly to Subaru. If the market is not there the way Subaru wanted, then they have only themselves to blame. To think that this car has some sort of mystical properties to it that requires people to pay more than it's fair price (as determined by the market) is absurd.
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Old 02-14-2001, 09:50 AM   #3
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From your mesage it appears that SOA was upset that dealers are making 'deals' to sell the cars rather than people demanding the car and paying too much for it. Is this the correct interpretation? I think that American consumers are more wise to the ways of car dealers and demand a better price.
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Old 02-14-2001, 09:57 AM   #4
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You would think that if Subaru were really disappointed at the response, they would think to ADVERTISE THE STINKIN' CAR!!!!

I've not seen a SINGLE print ad, billboard, or TV spot that even hints that Subaru builds anything other than Outbacks and Foresters!
[/rant]

Cheers.
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Old 02-14-2001, 09:58 AM   #5
DeanO
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deadbolt,

The market speaks for itself, and is NEVER wrong. The support level for WRX prices is obviously not higher than MSRP. Otherwise there would be widespread dealer gouging, as in the early PT cruiser and Honda S2000 market. The market demand for the WRX will be based on its performance value, not on dealer network price fixing.

Dean
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Old 02-14-2001, 09:59 AM   #6
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Waitaminitue!!

As long as SOA get's invoice (or wholesale)pricing, why should they care? That's all they charge to the dealer or wholesaler. It's the dealers lose out on the profit.

It's up to the dealers to say whether or not they'll take close to invoice. It's THEIR decision, not SOA's.

You want more profit? Raise the invlice price.

--KC
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:02 AM   #7
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so they are mad because we are not getting ripped off?
This makes me very angry.
If they do not appriciate our business, then it will be taken somewhere else. They should be very happy that dealers are sold out before the car even gets here.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:02 AM   #8
8Complex

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Maybe they should hire me to do some marketing for them. First of all, I'd paint the car a real yellow (yes, it's been beaten into the ground, but it's a factor that they were seemed to ignore - bright colors = fast car). Then I'd just have to take it and beat the crap out of everyone at every driving event I can find, take it to every street race and race all night long, and every hot rod show and show it off. You have to appeal to all markets and they kept it under wraps until recently... what'd they think, people were psychic???
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:02 AM   #9
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No I did not say that they were upset by the fact that enthusiasts were not paying "ABOVE MARKET PRICE." This is not a run-of-the-mill car like a Cavalier or something correct?
Rao, you made the comment about the "fair market value" of the car, that is what they were disappointed with, the fact that such a hot item has such a low market value. Such a long anticipated item, which only carries about 9.5% markup is being sold at margins that equal that of Plymouth Neons, Hyundai Excels, etc.

I do NOT see OVERcharging for anycar. I am not even necessarily saying that MSRP is what should be asked for the car, I can see both sides of it. I can see the idea of getting a fair deal on the car for all those concerned, but then again I can also see the market perception of the car being a bit skewed by these practices.

BTW, Don't kill the messenger, I was just passing the info along.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:03 AM   #10
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This does seem absurd that SOA would say this, so I doubt its validity. I have not heard one person say "I would get the WRX if only it were a little cheaper".

EVERY person on this BB who wanted the car was prepared to buy one at MSRP, or cheaper if they could find it (and they did). The dealers themselves lowered the price below MSRP without anyone asking them to! They simply wanted to deal like they did with any other Subaru product.

If anything, the fault lies with SOA and the dealers because they have a product that they could actually sell at MSRP but some of them are selling it like regular Subarus. Its in no way the consumer's fault in my opinion.
So there!

-BrianK
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:09 AM   #11
rao
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Deadbolt, nothing personal directed to you all.

My point is that if Subaru isn't happy with the value of the car, that's just too bad.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:14 AM   #12
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Brian, I am not trying to start an argument here, that was not the intention of the post. You can doubt the validity if you like, but this is from the only person at SOA that I talked to WELL over a year ago that knew when the WRX was going to be released, that it would not be a coupe, etc. LONG before I saw anything anywhere on the internet about it.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:17 AM   #13
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Sounds like SOA isn't in touch with itself.

So they make the WRX a regular production item, with more units to be built than ANY year of the 2.5RS, and then they bitch that its being sold as a normal car.

If they had thier head straight they would sell as many as possible. If they need too there is plenty of GM's shut down plants that they could buy for nothing, and then spend a few million making them work again. Bingo More car, and engine production.

The modern car market is not a place to be a small car maker selling small cars.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:21 AM   #14
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XT6,
Honestly though, would we want the car so much if there were one on every street corner, and the car was thought of in the same respect as Honda Civic and other Rice-victimized cars? Again, I see both sides of the argument. I cannot say anything about getting mine cheap (I get mine for triple net or Invoice minus holdback, minus advertising, minus floorplan allowance, etc.)

Also, IMHO, Subaru has succeeded because they are not one of the big, inefficient, poor quality manufacturers. They are a niche marketer.

[This message has been edited by deadbolt (edited February 14, 2001).]
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:21 AM   #15
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My few thoughts on this....

Subaru is Subaru, not Honda. To me (and everyone I have ever spoken to about Subaru), Subaru is known for one car, the outback. Where Honda is known for at least two, if not more, very popular cars (the civic and accord).

The WRX plays to the "rally" crowd, which isn't large in America. The S2000 plays to the Mazda/Porsche (Miata and boxer) crowd, which is the roadster crowd, which has already been tested over and over. The WRX is the first to enter this type of market, so I wouldn't expect many people to familiarize themselves with this type of vehicle.

Every review up to this point has made a comment on the funny look of the car, is this suppose to improve sales? They should of done some test market (car shows) before bring out such a change in style.

For the fact that Subaru has been marketing one car (the outback) and that a "cult" has formed (this club) around one of their less known ones, creates a group of people that are into helping each other get the best for their money. The deals are from this board, not from the major public. Also, it isn't like we twisted the arms of the dealers to get the deals, in most cases offered them very fast.

I would NEVER pay more than MSRP, and in most cases I feel I shouldn't have to pay more than what the dealer bought it for. They didn't have to "sell" me the car, I did that on my own. They are just the middle man that is transferring the car from the manufacture to me, I sure don't think that's worth the $2000 that MSRP gives him. I know I have to work more to get $2000. A majority of the deals are under "group buys" so the dealer in the end is making a ton of money, even at the discount, just to transfer the cars over.


Guess I should end this before I end up writing a book, just the post frustrated me......


Philip
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:24 AM   #16
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SOA has to realize that they're NOT viewed as a performance auto manufacturer here in the states. To develop that reputation, they've first go to sell a bunch of high performance cars at a very reasonable price. I feel that the lower-than-expected MSRP has something to do with it. I'm sure this will creep up once the WRX starts to make a dent in the American consciousness. As to the substantially less-than-MSRP prices... I bet alot has to do with the recent market corrections and the gloom-and-doom associated with the "upcoming recession". Already a bunch of automakers are laying off lots of workers and closing plants. If I recall, Subaru appears to be one of the few manufacturers that will still be substantially increasing sales through this period... partially due to the WRX. With all these gloomy predictions of our economic well-being, I'm honestly not suprised with the agressive pricing. If the WRX came out a year ago, I'm sure there would have been alot more markups (before everyone's portfolio's took a hit). If the styling wasn't so.... different... I'm sure more folks would shell out. As it is, it's a car-guy's type car, where you have to say "ignore the looks, just get behind the wheel!"

-- ConeMasher
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:24 AM   #17
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Several points:

1) The demand for such "luxury" cars as the WRX has cooled off significantly. There are no longer lists to buy Boxsters, S2000's, Type-R's, etc. Yes, there are lists still for the Porsche Turbo and the M3, but these aren't really comparable given their high price and perceived status.

2) The styling of the new WRX will not appeal to someone who does not know the performance abilities of the WRX. Many people bought the S2000 based on its looks alone, same with the Audi TT. This isn't going to happen for the WRX.

3) I'd hardly consider the WRX a flagship model. If there weren't people scrambling to pay MSRP or higher for something like a 22B, then I would say Subaru has a valid concern, but the WRX is hardly a 22B.

Just some thoughts.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:25 AM   #18
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Not to be combative, but this is utter crap. The WRX has, in 30 days, sold 1,000 units sight unseen -- with no effort on Subaru's part other than an appearance at the Detroit auto show and Internet word-of-mouth. It is most difficult to believe that a car that is generating that kind of interest is in imminent danger of being discontinued.

As for dealers' willingness to discount the price, what of it? Historically low-volume dealers are getting queries from Internet-savvy enthusiasts who want good prices on the car. It is hardly surprising that these dealers are willing to strike bargains. And it says nothing of the ultimate popularity of the car.
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:27 AM   #19
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If they don't appreciate my business fine. I can go back and buy another Honda. Would that make them happy? I think not, so they should shut up. They are making their money.
If they wanted a car that would make the country empty it's pockets well then good luck. Maybe they need to remeber why the WRX is so popular, performance per dollar. Honestly I had been dreaming of this car since 95, when it turned out to be a four door, lets says I wasen't pleased. I am taking a leap of faith for them, havent even driven the car. But I ordered one. I think they should apprieciate that fact.

Ken
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Old 02-14-2001, 10:34 AM   #20
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point #1:
they are kinda fighting an uphill battle right now. who the hell in their right mind would buy a car right now 'just for fun' when the economy is so uncertain, people are being layed off, and companies are *****ting the bed left and right? all things considered, WRX sales are pretty damn good.

point #2:
i like the car. most people here like the car. hence, we are the enthusiasts. the problem is when i show the WRX brochure to my friends, their first comment usually goes: ughh! what the hell do you want to buy that for? i explain about the turbo, the AWD, the rally heritage, the price, etc. they still look at me with this ghastly look on their faces. Subaru: we have a problem here!

-olaf

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Old 02-14-2001, 10:42 AM   #21
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If that is FHI's reaction, it is a little premature. As many have said, the car hasn't even been advertised here yet!

Many customers in the US are looking forward to owning it, and a good majority are not currently Subaru owners which is a great thing for Subaru because it means they are increasing their market base rather than cannibalizing sales.

Glenn
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Old 02-14-2001, 11:01 AM   #22
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Here is my yen's worth (short and bitter or sweet):

I believe FHI did it to themselves if they are upset.

1) Radical new styling, looks too much like other cars that are already in the market - nuf said.

2) Below expected performance in entrenched markets (Australia and UK). The UK blames us for the "couch potato" WRX, while we are just happy to get one.

3) Lack of public education - ADVERTISING people!! You just can't put a car out there and not let the buying public know what it is and what it can do. Not one ad anywhere. You can't change the channel and not see an ad for Kia or Hyndai (sp?)....where are the WRX ads? Subaru STILL has the utilitarian econobox label attached to it, and seems not to care. If you like it as such, then expect your cars to be sold as such. Common sense.

4) If they were catering to the performance car crowd, read SCC, then they need to get some aliances with aftermarket vendors PDQ. We know where to get parts, but there are not as many KNOWN vendors as the honda crowd has.

5) Better dealer educatiion. I wonder how many dealers/salespeople have seen a WRC event, or been to a auto/ralleycross. I bet that there are still dealers that don't have a clue as to the potential that the WRX has in the US market. I guess they see it as just another Impreza.

Came out much longer than I wanted, but there.

Lovejoy

[edit] I still plan on getting one.[/edit]

[This message has been edited by Lovejoy (edited February 14, 2001).]
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Old 02-14-2001, 11:03 AM   #23
cc
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I don't think it's the "current" Subaru owners that need to be sold on this puppy. It's the general public that does not know what this car is capable of that need to be sold.

That said, being a 4 dr. with the styling that it has, my feeling is that it's going to be competing with the Nissan Maxima, Accord V6, etc. as well as other sedans. I think it's a tough market for Subaru to crack, even with such a spectacularly valued car, considering there are so many sedans to choose from. My honest opinion is that this car is not going to have it easy - esp. with a 280 HP maxima coming & a 185 HP Sentra Vspec, both 4 dr. sedans with good build quality. If Subaru wants to jack the MSRP, I'll just wait until the fall when the Sentra arrives. But I do love the fact that Subaru offers the WRX in a wagon/hatch option.
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Old 02-14-2001, 11:03 AM   #24
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it took until the 96/97 model in Australia to take off.. they sold all 400~ STi's when they brought them in in 99 aswell.. people were selling them days after.. undriven.. undelivered.. for $10,000 over what they paid..

its tough to create demand for a car the general population hasnt seen driving around.. rest assured in 12 months -3 years time if they want to bring the STi here.. it will sell.. and they will get the sort of pants wetting excitement they are after..

give us a chance to drive it before telling us were not excited enough..

[This message has been edited by Xeno (edited February 14, 2001).]
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Old 02-14-2001, 11:08 AM   #25
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I want to address XT6's post, which was excellent.
Quote:
So they make the WRX a regular production item, with more units to be built than ANY year of the 2.5RS, and then they bitch that its being sold as a normal car.

If they had thier head straight they would sell as many as possible. If they need too there is plenty of GM's shut down plants that they could buy for nothing, and then spend a few million making them work again. Bingo More car, and engine production.
The import tariff laws control how many cars SOA can bring in from Gunma, Japan and sell at a profit. I believe it is a sliding scale-- build and sell more cars here in the US, and you can bring in more foreign cars WITHOUT the foreign duties.

Now see, the problem here is that the Forester is fairly popular and it comes from Japan just like the Impreza. They can't sell more Imprezas --profitably, I assure you they'll loose money if they move into tariff territory and don't pass on the cost to the consumer-- they will have to reduce the number of Foresters coming in. And Foresters aren't having any sales problems that I am aware of!

To grow, they MUST sell a lot more cars built in the US. If the Forester and Impreza grow in popularity faster than the Outback and Legacy, then they must build and Foresters and Imprezas here in the US.
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