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Old 12-13-2018, 05:24 PM   #351
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People realized if their daily driven supercar were to be hit by a shopping cart it would cost $5k to fix and take a few months to get the part.
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Old 12-14-2018, 05:52 PM   #352
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Wasn't that the story of the old NSX? Everyone loved it but after the initial excitement wore off nobody bought it.
The rise of the Yen hurt all of the 90's Japanese sports cars. The NSX started off as a $60k car when it first came out and by the end was near $100k for essentially the same car.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:51 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
NSX is a really sad study case. Very likeable car. Very overpriced.
Poor NSX, it's had a truly awful 2018. I know Honda never meant for it to be a volume seller, but I also don't think they intended to only sell 5-15 a month in the US.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:04 AM   #354
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already pimping out the car for all she is worth....
Good causes, but man, the hype train is going to blow. Did not work too well for NSX. Remember that Toyota.
Well the NSX disappointment was justified. The original was a drivers car made exotic with the simplicity of parts bin construction. The Mk4 Supra was a pricy, heavy GT car with an engine that wasn't appreciated until long after the car stopped selling in the States. The last gasp for bubble era excess from Japan. This car, while not ideal, has largely the same qualities at the same value of the MK4. The big difference is the engine, but the fanbois don't understand that an engine like the 2jz cant exist anymore unless you're dumbasses like Dodge. 300-350 hp, around 3200-3400 lbs are similar to what the MK4 was and it was massively overengineered. If Toyota were to build something like that today it would be the LC500 which already exists.



It's not Toyota that are building the hype train for this car, its a bunch of mouthbreathing idiot fanbois that worship(suck) at the altar(dick) of the character of Jeremy Clarkson.
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:06 PM   #355
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Well the NSX disappointment was justified. The original was a drivers car made exotic with the simplicity of parts bin construction.
You mean it shared the parts bin with the other rear wheel drive, all aluminum, rear engine, two seater, DOHC V6 Honda/Acura car?
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:29 PM   #356
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already pimping out the car for all she is worth....
Good causes, but man, the hype train is going to blow. Did not work too well for NSX. Remember that Toyota.
I sadly don't see sales of the Supra doing well much after initial release. I think you'll have maybe the first 3-6 months of sales doing well then tanking. A $60k car with 340hp and badged as a Toyota is a massive fail, in my opinion. I could see this car doing very well if it started at $40k and maxing out at $60k with upgrades, options etc. From where I stand, i'd rather get a CPO Jag F Type R or even get a new 340hp Jag F type and have it tuned so its making 400-420hp (its the same motor, injectors, etc as the 380hp jag just detuned).

I think the car is going to look rather good and have a solid drive feel but the cost is just way to high when factoring in what else is out there in the same price range. Now, if this had 400-450hp out of the box with headroom for a safe and reliable 500-550hp with tune, then I could see it as viable with the BMW equivalent making 500hp stock.

Hell, you could find some low mileage BRZ / FRS with a 6 speed and build it to the moon for much less than the upcoming Supra and have money left over.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:31 PM   #357
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The NSX truly was just a Legend in the making.
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Old 12-29-2018, 04:34 PM   #358
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You mean it shared the parts bin with the other rear wheel drive, all aluminum, rear engine, two seater, DOHC V6 Honda/Acura car?
Since we're being obtuse, yes.
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Old 12-29-2018, 04:35 PM   #359
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I sadly don't see sales of the Supra doing well much after initial release. I think you'll have maybe the first 3-6 months of sales doing well then tanking. A $60k car with 340hp and badged as a Toyota is a massive fail, in my opinion. I could see this car doing very well if it started at $40k and maxing out at $60k with upgrades, options etc. From where I stand, i'd rather get a CPO Jag F Type R or even get a new 340hp Jag F type and have it tuned so its making 400-420hp (its the same motor, injectors, etc as the 380hp jag just detuned).

I think the car is going to look rather good and have a solid drive feel but the cost is just way to high when factoring in what else is out there in the same price range. Now, if this had 400-450hp out of the box with headroom for a safe and reliable 500-550hp with tune, then I could see it as viable with the BMW equivalent making 500hp stock.

Hell, you could find some low mileage BRZ / FRS with a 6 speed and build it to the moon for much less than the upcoming Supra and have money left over.
It will start out at 40k, with two less cylinders.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:41 PM   #360
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It will start out at 40k, with two less cylinders.
Yes, I’m aware. I said it should start out at $40k with the turbo 6.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:25 AM   #361
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A $60k car with 340hp and badged as a Toyota is a massive fail, in my opinion. I could see this car doing very well if it started at $40k and maxing out at $60k with upgrades, options etc. From where I stand, i'd rather get a CPO Jag F Type R or even get a new 340hp Jag F type and have it tuned so its making 400-420hp (its the same motor, injectors, etc as the 380hp jag just detuned).
would definitely F-Type or Q60 RS (400hp, AWD, and a bit of luxury) for that $60k. or a 1 year old one for ~$40k. LOL
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:18 AM   #362
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I sadly don't see sales of the Supra doing well much after initial release. I think you'll have maybe the first 3-6 months of sales doing well then tanking. A $60k car with 340hp and badged as a Toyota is a massive fail, in my opinion. I could see this car doing very well if it started at $40k and maxing out at $60k with upgrades, options etc. From where I stand, i'd rather get a CPO Jag F Type R or even get a new 340hp Jag F type and have it tuned so its making 400-420hp (its the same motor, injectors, etc as the 380hp jag just detuned).

I think the car is going to look rather good and have a solid drive feel but the cost is just way to high when factoring in what else is out there in the same price range. Now, if this had 400-450hp out of the box with headroom for a safe and reliable 500-550hp with tune, then I could see it as viable with the BMW equivalent making 500hp stock.

Hell, you could find some low mileage BRZ / FRS with a 6 speed and build it to the moon for much less than the upcoming Supra and have money left over.
You can't compare a new car with a warranty to CPO cars, cause few consumers will do that. You can't get into a 3.0L turbo BMW for $40k, unless it's a stripped 335i or something, so you shouldn't expect a Toyota version for $40k, especially if meant to compete with Porsches.

But I agree it won't sell at $60k, since the people with that kind of money to blow on a 2 seater will want badges. They'll buy a BMW, Audi or Porsche.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:20 PM   #363
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You can't compare a new car with a warranty to CPO cars, cause few consumers will do that. You can't get into a 3.0L turbo BMW for $40k, unless it's a stripped 335i or something, so you shouldn't expect a Toyota version for $40k, especially if meant to compete with Porsches.

But I agree it won't sell at $60k, since the people with that kind of money to blow on a 2 seater will want badges. They'll buy a BMW, Audi or Porsche.
I’d be willing to disagree that people don’t cross shop CPO versus new. Obviously we haven’t seen real world results but I’d wager more people would take a Cayman given the same price tag. 340hp for $60k just seems asinine coming from a Japanese car who shared r&d cost with BMW. You can also get a well equipped Jag F Type 340hp for right under / right at $50k if you wait until end of year and know how to haggle. That 340hp motor is the same motor as the 380hp but detuned. Throw the tune on it and it’s 400-420hp.

I just don’t see this car having solid sales mid to long term. Yes, I know there is more to a car than just horsepower but for $60k, I’d expect more. I could see this car starting at $60k if it was badged as BMW making 380-400hp.
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:12 PM   #364
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I’d be willing to disagree that people don’t cross shop CPO versus new. Obviously we haven’t seen real world results but I’d wager more people would take a Cayman given the same price tag. 340hp for $60k just seems asinine coming from a Japanese car who shared r&d cost with BMW. You can also get a well equipped Jag F Type 340hp for right under / right at $50k if you wait until end of year and know how to haggle. That 340hp motor is the same motor as the 380hp but detuned. Throw the tune on it and it’s 400-420hp.

I just don’t see this car having solid sales mid to long term. Yes, I know there is more to a car than just horsepower but for $60k, I’d expect more. I could see this car starting at $60k if it was badged as BMW making 380-400hp.
I lust after the F Type, even with the V6 which sounds fantastic, so I hear you. But a lot of buyers are like "Jaguar? Eww."

Preview drives say it's between a Cayman and 911 in feel, if true that'll appeal to some, but I really think only badges sell when you go up past $60k.

What will be really interesting is in a year or two when we're in a recession and the stock market is half what it is today, how are companies going to sell dozens of models of bubble-priced sports cars? You'll see some real bargains.
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:30 PM   #365
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would definitely F-Type or Q60 RS (400hp, AWD, and a bit of luxury) for that $60k. or a 1 year old one for ~$40k. LOL
Or a CPO Alfa Quadriforglio...

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Old 12-31-2018, 09:22 AM   #366
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Or a CPO Alfa Quadriforglio...

--kC
Wait til the coupe is out. Toyota should've partnered with Alfa instead of the fugly Z4.

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Old 12-31-2018, 09:36 AM   #367
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I don't know if I can wait for the GTV. I'd prefer a wagon, next a sedan. I like having multiple doors. And it will be a few years after that when the leases start showing up in the secondary market anyways. Say it comes 2020. Then you're not going to see them used (read: attainable) until 2022. The Quadrifoglios are now used in the mid 50s (new 75-80). Huge depreciation hit.

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Old 12-31-2018, 10:13 AM   #368
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:31 AM   #369
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Looked better in camo. I’ve never been a huge Supra fan in the first place and this isn’t helping.
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:45 AM   #370
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I don't know if I can wait for the GTV. I'd prefer a wagon, next a sedan. I like having multiple doors. And it will be a few years after that when the leases start showing up in the secondary market anyways. Say it comes 2020. Then you're not going to see them used (read: attainable) until 2022. The Quadrifoglios are now used in the mid 50s (new 75-80). Huge depreciation hit.

--kC
I agree, I'd never buy a coupe based on a sedan, that's just silly. It would have to be something only available as a coupe, like a 911.

But it sure is beautiful in coupe form.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:42 AM   #371
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I lust after the F Type, even with the V6 which sounds fantastic, so I hear you. But a lot of buyers are like "Jaguar? Eww."

Preview drives say it's between a Cayman and 911 in feel, if true that'll appeal to some, but I really think only badges sell when you go up past $60k.

What will be really interesting is in a year or two when we're in a recession and the stock market is half what it is today, how are companies going to sell dozens of models of bubble-priced sports cars? You'll see some real bargains.
I dont think the stock market will be 50% down from where it is today. Maybe another 30% but I hear you. I've moved most of my personal investment portfolio into cash (thank god too) for when the market crash then eventual recession happens. I'm hoping to pick up a Type R or Aston Martin Vantage CPO for a steep discount.

To me, badging doesn't matter and performance carries more of a price tag to me. That being said, I still think a lot of people are going to have a hard time paying $60k base for 340hp Toyota. I could always be wrong but $60k isn't cheap and I think those buyers would want more for their dollar.

While majority might not be comparing this to a Jag Type R CPO, I think there will be a lot fo people asking why not a CPO M3/M4?
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Looked better in camo. I’ve never been a huge Supra fan in the first place and this isn’t helping.
Wow, that looks like confused pile o turd to me. Front end reminds me of BRZ/FRS just slight updated, and the rear is so short that it looks like a fancier Z4M rear. Basically a Z4M and BRZ had a love child, this would be it. Maybe its just the angle but I just cant. I was hoping for more of something like this.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:50 AM   #372
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Yes, I’m aware. I said it should start out at $40k with the turbo 6.
Why?


It was an equivalent 60k car back in the day, but the base model was an N/A I6. 40k with a turbo 4 is perfectly inline and expected.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:19 PM   #373
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Why?


It was an equivalent 60k car back in the day, but the base model was an N/A I6. 40k with a turbo 4 is perfectly inline and expected.
The “back in the day” argument doesn’t really hold water. Tech has changed, some materials are cheaper, more competition etc. $40k base seems expensive to me and I can see options getting this car to $55-$60k damn quick. $45k loaded, sure. I can dig that but we know that won’t happen.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:39 PM   #374
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The “back in the day” argument doesn’t really hold water. Tech has changed, some materials are cheaper, more competition etc. $40k base seems expensive to me and I can see options getting this car to $55-$60k damn quick. $45k loaded, sure. I can dig that but we know that won’t happen.
The average new car is almost $36,000 these days. $40,000 ain't **** for a car like this, if anything I'd say it's too cheap.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:40 PM   #375
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The average new car is almost $36,000 these days. $40,000 ain't **** for a car like this, if anything I'd say it's too cheap.
$40k for what will be a barebones model, ****ty seats, and probably ****ty brakes with a crap diff (guessing). That 4 banger damn well better have some room left in the engine for more power and not have little issues like most BMW engines.
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