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Old 10-19-2019, 11:02 AM   #1
clarkkent1975
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Default Buying a Type RA?

Iíve been poking around the Type RA market the last few months contemplating do I buy a Type RA and garage it or pick up a 2020 STI and drive it. What Iíve been very surprised about is the number of low mileage Type RAís for sale. There always seem to be about 20 for sale. Is there something I donít know about this car? Why buy a limited run model just to turn around and trade it in a year later?
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:28 AM   #2
Bluestreak03
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Sometimes when people buy a car it's a sporadic buy and or only wanted to say they had one. And some buy not knowing it's almost like buying a race car, ride is rough, stiff, etc. When you buy an RA or let's say an s209 you are usually buying it for the little extra things you do or don't get in a STI
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Old 10-20-2019, 04:31 PM   #3
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I have noticed 3 used RAs just this week on a popular used car site. Around $40k with 8-15k miles. However that same site/company is known for selling used cars at or more expensive than new on most model less than a year and less than 10k miles.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:02 PM   #4
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I vote buy a Type RA and drive it

You get the CF roof & spoiler, BBS wheels, Bilstein suspension, etc. I'd mainly want the Type RA for the CF roof as that's a hard piece to replicate.

I suspect the Type RA's value has depreciated due to the high original MSRP, all of the special editions that Subaru keeps releasing, and mostly because the 2019+ STIs received the same engine & transmission improvements. The Type RA just didn't end up being quite as special as everyone hoped.. just like the S209. I think a used Type RA in the low $40k range is a great value. I'd certainly purchase that over a S209.

People may be trying to sell their Type RAs in hopes of obtaining a S209. The S209 is a worse value IMO, but will certainly have a better chance of appreciating in the future if you solely want a garage queen.

The one downside to daily driving the Type RA vs a 19+ STI is that you won't get Android Auto/Apple Carplay. You'll also get more attention with the CF spoiler

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-20-2019 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:26 PM   #5
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People sometimes think they know something and jump on a limited number car, expecting it's going to skyrocket in value. The RA hasn't. Limited number cars often take decades to start rising in price, if they ever do. When I owned my 90 M3 that I paid $17k for as just a used car, it was just that....a $40k depreciated car. 3 years later when I sold it, it was still just a used car and it went for $15k. Look around now for one with 50k on it. With the RA, the S209 is a way better car, way more limited and way more expensive. I think all of that is going to pull more value out of RAs as being not that special and the values are going to go down. That's what my plexiglas ball tells me, anyways.
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Old 10-21-2019, 03:35 PM   #6
F1EA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I suspect the Type RA's value has depreciated due to the high original MSRP, all of the special editions that Subaru keeps releasing, and mostly because the 2019+ STIs received the same engine & transmission improvements. The Type RA just didn't end up being quite as special as everyone hoped.. just like the S209. I think a used Type RA in the low $40k range is a great value. I'd certainly purchase that over a S209.
Not really. The Type RA has depreciated because ALL CARS depreciate. It has nothing to do with how special or not it is today or what people hoped it was.

Everything you buy brand new today will be worth less money in 1 or 2 yrs.
Any possible value gained from collector-type special editions is way further down the line and after you've taken an initial standard depreciation hit and hung around long enough to see it appreciate (and not used it much)... more special cars may lose less or even "appreciate", but that is way down the line; and despite the S209 providing "less value" now; pretty sure it will be worth more than the Type RA in that long-term time frame...

So pretty much what Jack said.

Last edited by F1EA; 10-21-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:37 PM   #7
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Something else that can determine depreciation is how "overpriced" a car might be to start. Maseratis are pretty universally known for dropping like a rock. Why? Because they're reasonable $50k cars that cost $139k to buy. RA? I don't know. Watch Doug DeMuro's review. S209? Probably similar. Supply and demand for limited supply cars will come into play. Think GT-2 RS. The first few water cooler years were very limited and they go way over MSRP and climb. Now....walk into a Porsche dealer and you don't have to be on the "I bought 10 new 911's in the last decade" list. You just buy one. Possibly off the lot.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
Not really. The Type RA has depreciated because ALL CARS depreciate. It has nothing to do with how special or not it is today or what people hoped it was.

Everything you buy brand new today will be worth less money in 1 or 2 yrs.
Any possible value gained from collector-type special editions is way further down the line and after you've taken an initial standard depreciation hit and hung around long enough to see it appreciate (and not used it much)... more special cars may lose less or even "appreciate", but that is way down the line; and despite the S209 providing "less value" now; pretty sure it will be worth more than the Type RA in that long-term time frame...

So pretty much what Jack said.
Yes, mostly all cars depreciate, but also at different rates. There are truly special limited supply cars that people can turnaround and immediately sell for a profit.. because they were one of the lucky ones to attain one.

The Type RA depreciates at a significantly higher rate than a comparable STI. Why is that?

I also said that the S209 will have the better chance of appreciating as a collector's car..

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16
The S209 is a worse value IMO, but will certainly have a better chance of appreciating in the future if you solely want a garage queen.
Edit: Jack beat me to it. If a car is overpriced and doesn't offer a reasonable value then it will depreciate faster.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-21-2019 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Yes, mostly all cars depreciate, but also at different rates. There are truly special limited supply cars that people can turnaround and immediately sell for a profit.. because they were one of the lucky ones to attain one.
Such as?

Even used F40s depreciated for quite a few years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
The Type RA depreciates at a significantly higher rate than a comparable STI. Why is that?
For the same reason as this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I also said that the S209 will have the better chance of appreciating as a collector's car..

Edit: Jack beat me to it. If a car is overpriced and doesn't offer a reasonable value then it will depreciate faster.
and NOT because of this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I suspect the Type RA's value has depreciated due to the high original MSRP, all of the special editions that Subaru keeps releasing, and mostly because the 2019+ STIs received the same engine & transmission improvements. The Type RA just didn't end up being quite as special as everyone hoped.. just like the S209. I think a used Type RA in the low $40k range is a great value. I'd certainly purchase that over a S209.
Both the RA and S209 will depreciate more than the regular STI at the beginning. But long-term... BOTH will be more valuable/appreciated/desired etc. than the regular STI.

In your case YOU would rather purchase a Type RA, mostly because you see more value/better affordability to it NOW. But obviously, you're not the market target for the S209.

Last edited by F1EA; 10-21-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
Such as?
Even used F40s depreciated for quite a few years...
Sure, here you go:
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/09/...rrett-jackson/

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
and NOT because of this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16
I suspect the Type RA's value has depreciated due to the high original MSRP, all of the special editions that Subaru keeps releasing, and mostly because the 2019+ STIs received the same engine & transmission improvements.
Both the RA and S209 will depreciate more than the regular STI at the beginning. But long-term... BOTH will be more valuable/appreciated/desired etc. than the regular STI.
I don't understand your arguments.. just like many others on iwsti don't understand them.. your logic is circular without any support.

Where did I ever state that a base STI would appreciate more than the Type RA or S209 in the future?

You think the high initial MSRP has nothing to do with the rate of depreciation? or the fact that the base STI received the same engine and transmission improvements? and how that reduces the perceived value of the Type RA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
In your case YOU would rather purchase a Type RA, mostly because you see more value/better affordability to it NOW. But obviously, you're not the market target for the S209.
Again, read what I said. I said "IMO"... yes, meaning in MY opinion - you don't have to agree. I even said that the S209 will have a better chance of appreciating..

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16
The S209 is a worse value IMO, but will certainly have a better chance of appreciating in the future if you solely want a garage queen.
What point are you trying to make here again?

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-21-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:36 PM   #11
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I would get an RA, as they can be had for low 40's with low miles, which is just about the same as a limited STI.

The corvette depreciates faster than a pink sheet security, but it's arguably one of the better cars on the market for price. There are a lot of factors that affect depreciation.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:18 PM   #12
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What argument? I'm certainly not arguing. I guess you see there's something you have to prove (and maybe I have to disprove??); but I don't have to prove or disprove anything. Perhaps that's why you're not seeing the point, or why it bothers you that it's a "circular argument"...

I personally see no value in either. But neither the Type RA or S209 are about value in the sense you're working it out, or even in the sense I would value them. It has nothing to do with what "everyone hoped" for and it has nothing to do with a specific part or the value of this over that part.

The target market for these cars has absolutely no care for that. The fact you are looking for that objective value or logic to it, simply shows you're not part of that market, and it will be shown when all of them sell (if they aren't already).

Last edited by F1EA; 10-21-2019 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:58 AM   #13
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The Type RA's "value" is a product of supply & demand just like every other vehicle.

If a car is highly desired (whether that be due to an emotional, performance or some other perceived "value") and in limited supply then it will depreciate at a lower rate.. or potentially appreciate as in the case of the Ford GT. This is what drives the value of collector cars.. often a high sentimental/emotional attachment coupled with a low supply as the cars age.

Again, the high depreciation for the Type RA has several factors. I don't pretend to know them all.
  • The high original MSRP - as Jack mentioned, "overpriced" cars typically depreciate faster
  • The base STI received the engine & transmission improvements from the Type RA making it the better performance value and making the Type RA a bit less unique
  • Subaru released subsequent special editions in lower quantities with similar or better parts (like the Series.Gray & S209) - again, making the Type RA a bit less "special" and rare
And most importantly.. the demand does not exceed the supply. The Type RA simply isn't in high demand, whether that be for the reasons above or some other reasons, and that's ultimately what drives the resale price.

The value of a car is personal and unique to each individual.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:20 PM   #14
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Unless you can afford vehicles worth $200k+ and garage them, cars are an awful investment. Better off gambling the $50k on bitcoin or something.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
With the RA, the S209 is a way better car, way more limited and way more expensive. I think all of that is going to pull more value out of RAs as being not that special and the values are going to go down. That's what my plexiglas ball tells me, anyways.
I think you're off base, the Type RA is now a great value in comparison to the S209. The S209 is a Type RA with bolt-ons and checking in at $15k over Type RA MSRP, before massive ADMs.

I'm sitting on a 7.1 mile RA, it's a WAY better value than the S209. 31 more hp and bracing for $15k more and 100lbs of extra weight. Goal.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
The Type RA's "value" is a product of supply & demand just like every other vehicle.

If a car is highly desired (whether that be due to an emotional, performance or some other perceived "value") and in limited supply then it will depreciate at a lower rate.. or potentially appreciate as in the case of the Ford GT. This is what drives the value of collector cars.. often a high sentimental/emotional attachment coupled with a low supply as the cars age.

Again, the high depreciation for the Type RA has several factors. I don't pretend to know them all.
  • The high original MSRP - as Jack mentioned, "overpriced" cars typically depreciate faster
  • The base STI received the engine & transmission improvements from the Type RA making it the better performance value and making the Type RA a bit less unique
  • Subaru released subsequent special editions in lower quantities with similar or better parts (like the Series.Gray & S209) - again, making the Type RA a bit less "special" and rare
And most importantly.. the demand does not exceed the supply. The Type RA simply isn't in high demand, whether that be for the reasons above or some other reasons, and that's ultimately what drives the resale price.

The value of a car is personal and unique to each individual.
The value of a car is what someone is willing to spend on it.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 PM   #17
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I just managed to buy one for less than the cost of a base model STI with about 3700 miles on it. It is worth every cent (even if it was full price)

Coming from a 2012 STI, it's like the made every aspect of the driving experience better. I didn't really notice much wrong with my old car, but this one is amazing.

If you haven't driven one, do it (if you can) it's well worth it!
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Old Yesterday, 03:48 PM   #18
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I do think at some point, both RAs and 209s will appreciate. But I think it's going to be limited appreciation. Look at Lotus Elise, Exige. They've been appreciating steadily since 2012, when importation ended. But taking my car as an example, I bought it with 10k miles on it in excellent shape. 17k miles and 4 years later, I sold it for $32k, a $2k increase. But this was a $55k MSRP car new! And you simply can't buy anything like it new in the US. The closest thing is an Alfa 4C and that's $75k, doesn't come in a manual and doesn't come with a reliable Toyota drivetrain.

Now look at an RA or 209. If they don't offer any special STi versions at all starting in 2020, will you still be able to buy a new STi? Why, sure. So this makes anyone considering either limited edition cars look and think.....for the same money, I can buy a brand new one. You could make the argument that an E30 M3 or even the E36 M3 lightweight would have to compete with a new M3. And indeed both did. E36 lightweights sat on dealer floors for years with $10k incentives from BMW to dump them. I considered one in 1998, when one in Herb Chambers Boston (a 95 model) was offered to me for $15k under MSRP without even serious interest. It's only the last maybe 5 years that both E30 M3s and E36 lightweights are climbing in value.

Could the RA and 209 rise? Maybe. Likely? Uh...I don't know. Watch Doug DeMuro's take on cars that won't rise in value. He lumps all Japanese cars in there. I tend to agree.
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