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Old 05-08-2019, 08:05 PM   #1
hotblonde84
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Question Cam Carrier leaking?!?!

Hey fellas,

Have my subie in the shop for valve spring recall (#18V772000). They had to take the engine out to fix the issue. Luckily I got a loaner while they are ripping my baby apart.

They called me today and told me that they need to replace both my OSVs on the diver side due to heavy seas and that my cam carrier on the driver side has a heavy leak. They said the link isn't that bad (although the write-up states heavy) but that eventually those would need to be replaced and since my engine is out, much cheaper and quicker to do it as part of the recall then at a later time when they'd have to pull the engine back out.

QUESTION: Am I being taken advantage of? I don't know squat about cars and I'm getting a feeling they are using logic/reasoning to get me to spend $1k on something that doesn't really need to be replaced.

Thoughts?

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Old 05-09-2019, 10:48 AM   #2
hotblonde84
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Anybody? Lol
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:27 AM   #3
Kickinbeatz
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I had a similar happening to this in my '12 Impreza MT. I had a pretty bad seap on the front cam carrier seal and both sides.

I unfortunately did not have the right VIN for the valve spring recall, otherwise I would have actually done it then. They were going to replace and reseal those areas where the seap was (and hopefully not find more to replace). The labor charges would be included in the recall because they have to take engine out anyway.

I found out I didn't have recall after car was already in shop for that repair. I was nonetheless.

I guess the option is up to you. They quoted me about $2200 in labor for engine reseal other wise. That would be on top of already getting a new clutch assembly which I did do. If you think the leak is bad enough and you plan on keeping the car for some time, I would have them go ahead and do the extra work. Just don't let them charge you for something that is normally covered under recall repair.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:44 AM   #4
CosmoTheCat
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All of those FB motors leak. There's a huge TSB about it. They can leak from a threaded boss on the left valve cover, the upper oil pan, cam caps, cam carriers, timing cover, etc.

They're going to want to get your car out of the shop, so if you wait too long they're just going to throw it back together and send it, then you'll get to pay full pop.

Get a look at the leaks, if you don't trust the shop. I'm not sure why they want to replace the OSVs though, unless they broke the connectors while pulling the motor out.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:35 AM   #5
CaptainSlowbaru
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The valves youíre referring to, are they the circles on the front of the timing cover? (Different places call them different things, thatís why I asked) There is a TSB for those valves leaking oil into the connector.

Iíll second what cosmo said, FB engines leak. Especially the early ones- I guess the factory fujibond has a service life of 7-8 years.

Now is a very good time to fix those leaks. They shouldnít be charging to pull the engine since the recall pays for that, only for pulling the timing cover off and cam carriers. Iíd think 5-6 hours additional labor, tops.

Iíve seen leaks at the cam caps, and that often gets overlooked. Make sure they reseal those too.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:37 PM   #6
marstev
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Default Cam Carrier Leak

I just had the same thing come up with my 2012 Impreza while I had it in for the 90k service. I got the same line, "it's not bad right now", but it is something I will want to deal with...

First question: I read some mention of a recall that might have covered the work? Any more info that can be shared on this?

Second question: I live in the Philadelphia (Pa) suburbs and would like to find a Subaru specialty shop to use as an alternative to the dealership. Anyone have any recommendations?
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Old 03-02-2020, 09:29 PM   #7
Impreza-12
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Default 2012 Impreza Cam Carrier Leak and Bad Casting

I have nearly the exact same problem. Same car and when taking into the dealer for the valve spring replacement at 97K miles, pulling the engine out it revealed the cam carrier casing gasket leak. This is where things got interesting and based upon 25 years of industrial sealing design experience here's my take:

RTV sealants are generally not designed to function as a "seam" sealant which is exactly how Subaru applies it to that inside "groove" that is formed once the casing goes back together. I am experiencing this same issue in my 2012 Impreza with 97K miles. RTV is designed to be applied between the machined metal-to-metal surfaces under load so that the material is retained as a blocking boundary preventing any micro sized open paths for the oil to migrate across. The method which is applied here offers zero surface compression to the fully polymerized sealant. Once the chemical bond of the RTV stops adhering to the inner "seam" surfaces, it will separate from the surface from a combination of thermal cycling stresses and chemical attack from the engine oil additives over time. To make matters even worse, there is so much porosity in my particular casing cover casting, it allows oil to migrate both thru the walls and surely under and behind the polymer sealant. This promotes further weakening any RTV surface bonding. Once the oil pressure is higher than the bond holding the seal element, it leaks. High temperature cycles (perhaps from low oil volume levels reducing the overall cooling system heat efficiency) will accelerate this type of problem. And so its only a matter of time until the leak become severe enough to be noticed. This is so frustrating to deal with and I'm in contact with Subaru now to work through it. Can't believe this issue has not already been an established recall. Seems to be a common problem based upon some basic internet searches. It reflects poorly on Subaru's engineering, manufacturing and quality control. But they make it last long enough to get them through their warranty period even though they are famous for getting many 100K's of miles out of their engines.
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Old 03-03-2020, 06:23 PM   #8
redblack
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Do the wrx FA20 have this problem too?
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Old 11-10-2020, 04:50 PM   #9
yuxz339
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My 2012 Forester started to show signs of oil leak in the last shop visit. The tech diagnosed it as Cam Carrier Leaking, and suggested a $3,000 full engine reseal.

The FB25 engine has 140kkm on it and never had issues in the past. I plan to monitor the leak and see if I can get another 10kkm on it before resealing.
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Old 02-12-2021, 05:58 PM   #10
surowrxa
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I saw the first signs of this at the last oil change on our 2012 Forester. Very little residue up top, driver's side. This oil change the residue is more widespread but still not puddling. We plan on selling the car next year, I'm hoping to make it there before it gets worse. $3K is not the way...

TSB 02-131-12R covers my issue. This problem is widespread, and Subaru in the past has been accommodating to repeat customers on such things, even covering them out of warranty. Does anyone have an experience with this particular problem and SOA?
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Old 02-14-2021, 06:03 PM   #11
Jubbsta
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Common issues yes - fix them while the engine is out. The cost to reseal the cam carrier would be a whole lot more if you waited as the valve spring recall will cover a large portion of the labor associated. As far as the oil control valves, that's a common issue. There's an internal seal that starts to leak - these valves can be replaced without pulling the motor and are very easily accessible . There's a TSB addressing the oil control valves (AVCS) #02-170-17R that shows a redesigned part to fix this issue. Good luck.
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:43 PM   #12
surowrxa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubbsta View Post
Common issues yes - fix them while the engine is out. The cost to reseal the cam carrier would be a whole lot more if you waited as the valve spring recall will cover a large portion of the labor associated. As far as the oil control valves, that's a common issue. There's an internal seal that starts to leak - these valves can be replaced without pulling the motor and are very easily accessible . There's a TSB addressing the oil control valves (AVCS) #02-170-17R that shows a redesigned part to fix this issue. Good luck.
Valve spring recall is for FA20 engines I believe. That would be great if SOA covered the engine pull and threw extra cash on top of the CC reseal. I would actually be ok with that if I didn't pay much. But the 2012 US Forester has the FB25. No dice.

Like I said, right now the leak is very light. Hope to make it another year and we are good. Still would like to know stories of those who got assistance from SOA though. I've seen much more on other sites about this.
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:54 PM   #13
surowrxa
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'17 Outback

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza-12 View Post
I have nearly the exact same problem. Same car and when taking into the dealer for the valve spring replacement at 97K miles, pulling the engine out it revealed the cam carrier casing gasket leak. This is where things got interesting and based upon 25 years of industrial sealing design experience here's my take:

RTV sealants are generally not designed to function as a "seam" sealant which is exactly how Subaru applies it to that inside "groove" that is formed once the casing goes back together. I am experiencing this same issue in my 2012 Impreza with 97K miles. RTV is designed to be applied between the machined metal-to-metal surfaces under load so that the material is retained as a blocking boundary preventing any micro sized open paths for the oil to migrate across. The method which is applied here offers zero surface compression to the fully polymerized sealant. Once the chemical bond of the RTV stops adhering to the inner "seam" surfaces, it will separate from the surface from a combination of thermal cycling stresses and chemical attack from the engine oil additives over time. To make matters even worse, there is so much porosity in my particular casing cover casting, it allows oil to migrate both thru the walls and surely under and behind the polymer sealant. This promotes further weakening any RTV surface bonding. Once the oil pressure is higher than the bond holding the seal element, it leaks. High temperature cycles (perhaps from low oil volume levels reducing the overall cooling system heat efficiency) will accelerate this type of problem. And so its only a matter of time until the leak become severe enough to be noticed. This is so frustrating to deal with and I'm in contact with Subaru now to work through it. Can't believe this issue has not already been an established recall. Seems to be a common problem based upon some basic internet searches. It reflects poorly on Subaru's engineering, manufacturing and quality control. But they make it last long enough to get them through their warranty period even though they are famous for getting many 100K's of miles out of their engines.
This is spot on. Add the interesting tidbit I read about that the RTV has a life of 8 years (captain slowbaru mentions this in this thread) and it REALLY makes no sense to a brand of autos that owners keep in the family for an average of 10 years. Oh and don't forget 0w20, the oil that might as well be water. And water squeezes through everything...
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