Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday December 11, 2018
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2006, 05:24 PM   #1
RedKingRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77599
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: South of Heaven
Vehicle:
2004 2.0 STi
SRR

Exclamation Pulleys!!..effin with harmonic balance...

Okay so,
I recently picked up an AEM alt. Pulley for a cool $20, it had never been used and everything still in the kit (pulley,new belt,instructions,sticker). A friend of mine got one when they first came out and installed on his '03 WRX. I never really noticed anything but his AC seemed to werk a lot colder...not cool,cold,even on the 1st setting I'd be frezzing ballz..
So he decided to get a PERRIN crank pulley and when he went to set up an install date the installer said he should NOT install two different pulleys because it could screw with the vechiles harmonic balence...blah..so he gave the crank pulley to his brother and he put it on his '03 WRX worked fine felt good!
But now I want both pulleys!!
Has anyone mixxed pulleys and had any probelms?? Or anybody have a pulley kit that they recomend?!

Thanks in advance!
-Al
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by RedKingRex; 06-28-2006 at 05:29 PM.
RedKingRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-28-2006, 05:26 PM   #2
Judge
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15380
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
White

Default

You are messing with the harmincs by the Perrin Crank pully itself.....it uhm...replaces the harmonic balancer (aka damper)....
Judge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 05:35 PM   #3
RedKingRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77599
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: South of Heaven
Vehicle:
2004 2.0 STi
SRR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
You are messing with the harmincs by the Perrin Crank pully itself.....it uhm...replaces the harmonic
balancer (aka damper)....
That would explain it then! Thanks Judge!
Any one have a perrin crank and probelms?
RedKingRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 05:35 PM   #4
Unabomber
👏 Big Ron 👏
Moderator
 
Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:
on car parts so PM
me b4 j00 buy

Default

Read the Pulley FAQ buddy....this topic has been debate about 900 times.
Unabomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 05:42 PM   #5
RedKingRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77599
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: South of Heaven
Vehicle:
2004 2.0 STi
SRR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
Read the Pulley FAQ buddy....this topic has been debate about 900 times.
901 here I come
Thanks guys!
RedKingRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 07:59 PM   #6
ChgoJay
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71722
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default

There is no harmonic balancer on the WRX or STi.
ChgoJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 11:41 PM   #7
qoncept
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44762
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Palo, IA
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChgoJay
There is no harmonic balancer on the WRX or STi.
+1

There is NO harmonic balancer. Use whatever pulley you want.
qoncept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 11:46 PM   #8
RedKingRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77599
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: South of Heaven
Vehicle:
2004 2.0 STi
SRR

Default

Hmm turning into the 901 reply debate..lol
RedKingRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 11:56 PM   #9
cegpcola
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 97987
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Pensacola, FL
Vehicle:
The Wagon shaped
paper weight

Default

I run the perrin with no problems, and love it. It really revs nice after the install.
cegpcola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:00 AM   #10
IIdiceII
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 90438
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Default

From what ive read there is NO harmonic balancer but its not a good idea to use an underdrive pulley. the perrin and i think cobb are the same size as stock but weigh less there for are the best.

if you can afford it id say get a flywheel and do it the right way
IIdiceII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:04 AM   #11
fmicmatt
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 112141
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: NW Washington
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WRB

Default

The outer ring of the crank pulley is attached to the inner ring by rubber.

So..... Its a harmonic DAMPENER then?

-Matt
fmicmatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:06 AM   #12
cegpcola
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 97987
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Pensacola, FL
Vehicle:
The Wagon shaped
paper weight

Default

I run the Streetlight flywheel as well, and did notice more gains out of it than the pulley. I have not had any problems with missfires either which is odd when running both. The only thing about the flywheel is that as you reduce the weight, the car revs quicker, but it looses some of the inertia that helps the powerband up in the higher RPMs. So as you go lighter with the flywheel, you will feel the car loose some power up top. Don't go to light.
cegpcola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 09:40 AM   #13
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cegpcola
So as you go lighter with the flywheel, you will feel the car loose some power up top.
i have not found this to be the case.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 10:24 AM   #14
Judge
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15380
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by qoncept
+1

There is NO harmonic balancer. Use whatever pulley you want.
I am going to go out to my car and look. If I find that the pulley is two pieces seperated by a ring of rubber..it is a TVD. Torsional Vibration Damper. AKA Harmonic balancer. If you remove one from yoru vehicle you are begging for issues onmost vehicles. There is a BMW tuner (cannot remember the shops name) that had a huge write up on why you shoul dnot do it. I used to work for a company that manufactured TVD's. I was the R&D tech...I have collected more vibration data than I care to remember and gotta tell you...you are playing with fire by removing it. You will most likely wipe out your bearings if not put the engine into a crank whip situation and shatter the crank in multiple pieces. Accessory underdrive pulleys are one thing...but replacing the TVD is not one to mess with.
Judge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 10:44 AM   #15
Alan l.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 90085
Join Date: Jun 2005
Vehicle:
2009

Default

^^ Your thinking of bmw tuner Dinan.

The stock pulley on my 05 is indeed 2 pieces seperated by some rubber material. I'm sure Subaru designed it like that for a reason...
Alan l. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 11:47 AM   #16
x99percent
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27108
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Detroit-ish, MI
Vehicle:
2004 STi
2004 A4

Default

x99percent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:06 PM   #17
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by x99percent
This mostly applies to long crank shafts found in Inline or V engines. The Boxers have an extremely short crankshaft with plenty of bearings, and do not need balance shafts because almost all vibration is cancelled out (there is a short 2nd order vibration in the H4s).

My RS did not come with any type of damper, the crank pulley is solid. Changing the pulley on your WRX should not have any adverse effects, and no one has reported any problems either.
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:09 PM   #18
SubyDuz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80432
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC
Vehicle:
69 IchhateinAudi
Blutrot

Default

I have the COBB crank pulley and just ordered my Beatrush Alternator pulley this week. It is a FLat4 no need to worry about harmonics it is not an inline motor like a Honda
SubyDuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:09 PM   #19
x99percent
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27108
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Detroit-ish, MI
Vehicle:
2004 STi
2004 A4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192
My RS did not come with any type of damper, the crank pulley is solid. Changing the pulley on your WRX should not have any adverse effects, and no one has reported any problems either.
I'm pretty sure that the '99RS I had *did* have a rubber strip in the pulley. Are you *sure* that your factory pulley has no rubber in it?
x99percent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:10 PM   #20
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
I am going to go out to my car and look. If I find that the pulley is two pieces seperated by a ring of rubber..it is a TVD. Torsional Vibration Damper. AKA Harmonic balancer.
since when is a damper a balancer? don't mix the terms--they are not the same.

Quote:
You will most likely wipe out your bearings if not put the engine into a crank whip situation and shatter the crank in multiple pieces. Accessory underdrive pulleys are one thing...but replacing the TVD is not one to mess with.
while that may be true, empirical evidence tends to trump that theory. i, as well as many other people, have run lw/ud crank pulleys for tens of thousands of miles, at power levels hundreds of hp over oem. speaking for myself my bearings show no issues whatsoever according to used oil analysis.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:25 PM   #21
x99percent
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27108
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Detroit-ish, MI
Vehicle:
2004 STi
2004 A4

Default

So then why would Subaru put it there in the first place?

It certainly is not a cost issue (as someone suggested in another pulley thread ), as we know it costs more to make/assemble a two-piece pulley versus a solid pulley.

Is it simply an NVH issue?
x99percent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:29 PM   #22
Chuck H
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 20442
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Chelmsford, MA
Default

If it's not keyed and can be installed at any rotational angle, it's not a harmonic balancer. It's a harmonic damper, or torsional vibration damper, or whatever the heck else you want to call it. Most cars come with those now, as they smooth the engine out somewhat, and also help reduce the shock load on the crank when the accessories (like the A/C compressor) cycle on and off.

You can replace them without major issues, but just be prepared for a little more NVH to go with your faster revving engine.
Chuck H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:30 PM   #23
Judge
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15380
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l.
^^ Your thinking of bmw tuner Dinan.

The stock pulley on my 05 is indeed 2 pieces seperated by some rubber material. I'm sure Subaru designed it like that for a reason...

Correct...Dinan...thanks.
Judge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:32 PM   #24
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

well, you could look at it this way...

how did subaru "fix" the clutch shudder and deceleration noise so prevalent on the first bugeyes to hit the states?

they put in a heavier flywheel!

i understand modal vibrations, and how destructive they can be--that's part of the reason i paid for a UOA. i've run the pulleys (it's a gfb set) for at least 35k miles. i would have expected by now to see SOMETHING amiss, but i just haven't.

i'm gonna do some seasonal maintenance within the next few days (coolant/oil/tranny/plugs/compression) and i'll bottle up another sample for blackstone. it's been a while since the last one anyway.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:34 PM   #25
Judge
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15380
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
White

Default

Balancing harmonics and balancing an engine are two different animals. You can install a harmonic balancer in any position....the way it babances the harmonics is by cancelling them via the external mass through the rubber ring......the term balancer and damper are used interchangeably in the industry all the time....go to a parts store and ask for either....they will know what you mean....unlike you...which I do not think you know as much about engine harmonics as you think you do....
Judge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Harmonic Balancer / Crank Pulley Bolt Size? vms150 Service & Maintenance 3 04-22-2018 03:16 PM
EJ22 with pushed in harmonic balancer?... please help BURTONRIDR Normally Aspirated Powertrain 5 08-20-2009 01:12 PM
Fluid filled harmonicly balanced pulley calib17a Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 3 12-12-2005 10:43 AM
WTB: Stock Crank Pulley/Harmonic Balancer nunyo Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 1 02-15-2005 01:10 PM
lightweight crank pulley with harmonic dampner, stock size CrowbarKen Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 29 02-11-2003 12:32 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.