WWP-99 Service Campaign - Cooling System Conditioner

[Snoopy]

Great news for me! I got a call from the Subaru dealership and they said they would cover the cost under the service campaign. WOOHOO! And I have 77,000 miles too! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

Now....it's time to consider getting a redesigned subie engine later or just wait for the next leak.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[C-daleRidr]

I think they at least redesigned the head gaskets.

[Snoopy]

One would hope....but it doesn't seem so. The service guy said that they're waiting for that sealant fluid.

[dugrant153]

Originally posted by subarucyclist
Like the rest of us, I'm pretty disappointed that our cars/motors are subject to this whole issue. But on the bright side, I did a little investigating at my local Subaru dealership today and discovered that at least they have an updated head gasket design, so if any of us DO need a head gasket replacement, and it now seems pretty likely that most 2.5 motors will, they'll be replacing a faulty part with a better one, which in theory at least will last a lot longer.

Do you think the new 2004's have a newer head gasket design that would fix the problem? Probably the 2005 models should be even better, eh?

I was just about to get a Subaru until I found this thread on the 2.5L engine. That leaves only the 2.2L engine as the most reliable?

[subarucyclist]

My local dealer has confirmed that there IS a new head gasket design, so when/if your motor blows a HG, you'll get a better one that should last longer. That's good news.

You know, this sort of thing really has a way of making you lose faith in your car, but I think it's good to put things in perspective. After this news I was considering selling my RS and getting an Acura RSX-S (sinful I know, but that honda reliability sounds nice right now) but after a little research I discovered that those cars have huge problems with the tranny synchros and grinding gears, to the point that people have had major replacements even in the first 20k.

Just goes to show, doesn't matter what you drive, this sort of thing just happens now and then.

[SubaruFan]

This whole thing is like a time warp back to when my 91 3L 4Runner crapped out on me. First rebuild was done after visiting three dealers and being told there was nothing wrong with the car. The 4th dealer called me 10 min after I dropped the car off and scared the life out of me.

Message was along the lines of: We are pulling your engine out of the car this afternoon, we have ordered two new heads and will be sending the block out to a machine shop as soon as possible. We have a loner car for you here at the dealership, call me back when you get this message.


Ahhhhh!

I couldn't dial fast enough.
The first thing the service guy says no worries Toyota is taking care of the whole thing. There was a faulty head gasket and all damage related to it will be fixed. Three weeks later I get my 4runner back with 8 pages of printed documents listing parts and labor totaling $8,000!
I spent $500 for new parts not covered like main bearings at dealer cost and no labor charge. WOW! Toyota Rocks! 23,000 miles later poof my 4runner is a steam locamotive. Back to the same dealer. They call back aplologize for the mess and tell me that they had installed the original faulty gasket when they rebuilt it the first time. One new head and two weeks later I get my car back only they suposedly broke a fuel injector and charge me $700!

I drove the 4runner another month. Two family members tell me to quit messing around with a bad car buy a Subaru. I did, and love the Subie.

I'm worried my Subie is going to be another 4Runner disaster.....
Keeping my fingers crossed...

Thanks for all the news guys. Keep it comming.

[C-daleRidr]

I went ahead and told them to replace the timing belt and accessory belts while they were building up my new engine, and those parts are all I'll end up laying any cash down for.

And I think subarucyclist makes an excellent point, and it's one that I've made in other threads about this topic. Any car can have problems. There are too many GL's and Brats on the road with 200k+ miles on them for me to think that Subaru's overall quality is lacking. This was a problem that they seem to be dealing with relatively well, even for those without extended warranties. As long as they'll do that, and this sort of thing doesn't become commonplace across the line, I won't avoid them.

[SubaruFan]

First I must say that Subaru continues to impress me! The dealer has been great, and my chat with Subaru Cust service was very nice. They are concerned about their customers, and will go the distance to help you out. Subaru is going to fix my GT!

I can't wait to see the new 05 GT wagon this summer.

Another happy customer

[sidewayz]

how true is this?
nhtsa.dot.gov has nothing on this bulletin..

[Snoopy]

Originally posted by sidewayz
how true is this?
nhtsa.dot.gov has nothing on this bulletin..

All I know is they fixed mine. The dealer shop guys know about the bulletin and took care of me.

[SubaruImpreza_power]

Originally posted by sybir
That's great, really helps all of the DOHC who blew gaskets on *every* 2.5 Legacy.

Oh, but those fail *internally* so it must be different

heh.

Mine held on for 120k before it went, leavign me with $2500 in bills o_0.

Nice to know that on newer cars, the problem required fixing to the extent that my car would *still* be under warranty.....

Your Not alone... 99-02 *** is that? It should of been 98-02

But I'm thinking it's just better to replaced the engine.. I mean the engine has to be pulled for the failed HG's right? so why not just drop another one in....

[SubaruImpreza_power]

Originally posted by HndaTch627
phase 1 headgaskets were defective, nothing more, phase 2's are obviously showing signs of cylinder head issues, not a blown gasket

You mean the Phase I Gaskets were Crap from the start I guess they don't keep track of how often they blow?

I would REALLY love to know If the Phase I's were defective then a recall should of been given.. thats almost like ramdom parts just failing on the car causing loss of driveablity.

[SubaruImpreza_power]

Originally posted by dugrant153
I was just about to get a Subaru until I found this thread on the 2.5L engine. That leaves only the 2.2L engine as the most reliable?

My 1.8L runs nice.. I'm almost at 135K miles.. I'm the 2nd owner so I don't know what happened before then.. But It runs fine all the way to the redline.

[Andrew Bacon]

Originally posted by subarucyclist
....at least they have an updated head gasket design, so if any of us DO need a head gasket replacement, and it now seems pretty likely that most 2.5 motors will, they'll be replacing a faulty part with a better one, which in theory at least will last a lot longer. If they planned to put the same lame gasket in, I'd be very, very displeased.....

The HG(s) just bit me in the butt. 63K '00RS.
Any idea what the part# for the new gaskets is? I want to make sure I don't put the old design back it. TIA

[JayGold]

Don't know if I have to bring the '99 in, purchased new SOA Phase II shortblock and new gasket set when I rebuilt her last year, there is only 5,000 miles on the new block and gaskets, no signs of leaking with Prestone.

How do I tell if the Subaru coolant is needed or not?

[Jon [in CT]]

Originally posted by JayGold
Don't know if I have to bring the '99 in, purchased new SOA Phase II shortblock and new gasket set when I rebuilt her last year, there is only 5,000 miles on the new block and gaskets, no signs of leaking with Prestone.

How do I tell if the Subaru coolant is needed or not?

Subaru is now recommending the use of Subaru Coolant Conditioner in ALL recent Subarus, even the new 2004 models.

[JayGold]

Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
Subaru is now recommending the use of Subaru Coolant Conditioner in ALL recent Subarus, even the new 2004 models.

Great. So the aftermarket coolant more then 1/2 the people on this board are using is determental to the life of the motor?

Can I get a refund on my motor from SOA now? SOA Jackarses! Can't anything go right with these vehicles.

[SubaruImpreza_power]

Originally posted by JayGold
Great. So the aftermarket coolant more then 1/2 the people on this board are using is determental to the life of the motor?

Can I get a refund on my motor from SOA now? SOA Jackarses! Can't anything go right with these vehicles.

haha I loved the way you said that!

yeah makes you go

[fcfollett]

Subaru is looking to patch the problem and hope that everyone gets 100K on there engine. I am @ 80K and the problem just showed up.
Same side, drivers. Its very frustrating, we bought the car based on Subaru's reputation. We had a '90 legacy we bought used and nearly drove it into the ground, it still runs. Maybe I'll trade my '00 in for a '90.

Thanks for the help, I just hope Subaru is up to the challange of fixes 1000's and 1000's of cars. Sell your Subaru stock before word get's to Wall Street.

[Matt]

Any 2002 RS/OBS owners experiencing this problem?

The missus is driving her '02 OBS and I've got my '04 TS. Hopefully we won't see many problems with this in later cars.


Oh, and when I traded my '01 RS in with 80k miles, it was fine. Never seemed to experience any problems with the car and it wasn't showing any signs of overheating or the bad head gasket.

[SubaruImpreza_power]

Originally posted by fcfollett
Subaru is looking to patch the problem and hope that everyone gets 100K on there engine. I am @ 80K and the problem just showed up.
Same side, drivers. Its very frustrating, we bought the car based on Subaru's reputation. We had a '90 legacy we bought used and nearly drove it into the ground, it still runs. Maybe I'll trade my '00 in for a '90.

Thanks for the help, I just hope Subaru is up to the challange of fixes 1000's and 1000's of cars. Sell your Subaru stock before word get's to Wall Street.

Same here.. Looks like I wont take everyone's word here next time when I go for another car.. Back before I got the Subaru.. The Issue about Head Gaskets never came up Until about a month after I got the car..

I could still Ditch the Forester if I wanted to.. and still get good money off it, But yea it's a shame.. I see old Gl wagons running around like it's brand new...

Wont it still just be Cheaper to Issue a Recall? And save me $1500 in a Bill Because of a known Defective part?

[JayGold]

Its just interesting that SOA plans on fixing this problem by having its customers return to the dealer on an "unscheduled" visit to swap coolant. If the current coolant unknown to be Subaru brand or aftermarket in soooo many vehicles has already "eaten" away the head gaskets...how is a cooling system conditioner going to appropriately seal what damage has already been done?

My '99RS having only about 6,000 "new" miles on the block and gaskets has no leaking issues, so its likely I can swap fluid and save the entire n/a life of the motor.
For older, higher mileage vehicles...well...to be fair SOA should have stated to the public a mileage or age marker in which they should, free of charge, pull the motor and replace the head gaskets.
If they state 1999 is the beginning year which this problem exists, it only took about 6 years to find this problem. This concerns me as to the amount of time spend on R&D for these motors.
Does Porsche have this problem with their boxer style head gaskets?

Hell, I'll even be somewhat happy if I can just get my '99 flushed and refilled the proper way from the monkeys at the service department

As for my '02 wrx, I plan to have the block replaced within 30,000 miles, but thats boosted far beyond normal values.

[Andrew Bacon]

I went to my local dealer today to get one of their nifty $15 radiator caps, and some of that "Subaru" coolant and conditioner. The guy behind the counter didn't know what fluids I was talking about. That doesn't mean much though, as IMO that dealer sucks in SO many ways in ALL departments. *shrug*

[Brad Pittiful]

thanks for the info...i will await my letter

[Siper2]

Not that I'd ever want to admit this, but.... Do you suppose stuff like this is a little bit of evidence that it's time for a totally new engine platform? Like, maybe they're asking too much out of this EJ engine?

I mean, with all the old DOHC HG problems, and now this... I dunno, it seems that without all the hardened STi internals, these suckers have a pretty decent failure rate....


Yes bad things can happen to any car, but this is pretty consistent across the board. It could just be a faulty this or that, but .... What do you guys think?

-S2-