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Old 08-17-2018, 03:33 PM   #1
redrexmeister
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Default DOHC EJ Cylinder 4 Combustion Chamber Cooling kit

Anyone purchased this cooling hose for Cylinder 4 chamber from GetaDomeTune.com ?

Seems to be a very clever idea as it offers a simple solution to a known engine issue due to higher detonation risk in #4 chamber. Install seems straightforward too. I am looking for feedback from early adapters. Are there any negatives of doing this mod? See product description and site link below.

Cylinder 4 Chamber Cooling System GR/VA/08+ LGT Fitment


http://shop.getadomtune.com/shop.get...8-lgt-fitment/

Cylinder 4 Chamber Cooling System GR/VA/08+ LGT Fitment

Description
Industry first DOHC EJ Cylinder 4 Combustion Chamber Cooling kit increases coolant flow in the LH head to improve reliability by reducing detonation causing hot spots, reducing EGT delta and improving overall cooling system performance.

This is for all 08+ Impreza and Legacy which require a longer hose than pre 08 cars.

Each kit contains:

1x Coolant pipe assembled with a stainless steel T, high grade silicon hose, Stainless Pinch clamps, Custom machined and anodized 6061 fitting.
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Last edited by redrexmeister; 08-17-2018 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:19 PM   #2
Charlie-III
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Silicon is used for making computer chips, silicone is used for seals and hose (or "titty upgrades" in the past, now, saline)

I think the biggest issue "may" be intake airflow or fueling to that cylinder, likely a coolant hose is a bandaid.
I never tried it or saw it, so, who knows?

Didn't see where this attaches.

Looks like $10 in parts wholesale.

How about try it and report back?
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Old 08-17-2018, 05:17 PM   #3
mrsaturn7085
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I always weigh options like this in terms of how much development went into them.

FHI designed the EJ platform some 20+ years back and have refined it using modern CAD and other engineering simulations.

This company guessed that a hose would do a better job than Subaru managed to do.

I don't really see how this would help from a heat transfer and fluids standpoint. It's a good 4 more spots where a leak could occur, however.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:53 PM   #4
redrexmeister
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Default reverse cooling hose

If you watch video posted at the bottom of the product description page, Dom makes an argument that Cylinder 4 issues are mainly caused by insufficient cooling of the cylinder head area. In another video he shows with IR probe that the reverse cooling hose mod helps to cool that area by 3-4 degrees K, which is actually huge.

Assuming Dom's theory is right, the kit does help to decrease knock by dropping the temp in the cylinder 4 which is the most prone to detonation due to Subaru's poor design decision to keep just one knock sensor on EJ motor (FA DIT series motors have two knock sensors).

I'd be curious to hear from the engine builders and tuners regarding this reverse cooling kit. If there are people who already use please do chime in to give your perspective.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:55 PM   #5
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Silicon is used for making computer chips, silicone is used for seals and hose (or "titty upgrades" in the past, now, saline)

I think the biggest issue "may" be intake airflow or fueling to that cylinder, likely a coolant hose is a bandaid.
I never tried it or saw it, so, who knows?

Didn't see where this attaches.

Looks like $10 in parts wholesale.

How about try it and report back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrexmeister View Post
If you watch video posted at the bottom of the product description page, Dom makes an argument that Cylinder 4 issues are mainly caused by insufficient cooling of the cylinder head area. In another video he shows with IR probe that the reverse cooling hose mod helps to cool that area by 3-4 degrees K, which is actually huge.

Assuming Dom's theory is right, the kit does help to decrease knock by dropping the temp in the cylinder 4 which is the most prone to detonation due to Subaru's poor design decision to keep just one knock sensor on EJ motor (FA DIT series motors have two knock sensors).

I'd be curious to hear from the engine builders and tuners regarding this reverse cooling kit. If there are people who already use please do chime in to give your perspective.
As I stated, I don't think so. But, try it out and report back.

Hey, I have no issues with being proven wrong. We all learn.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:49 PM   #6
Delphi
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I think this is a solid idea and the proof is in the video that the cylinder head temperature does drop a significant amount just at the surface and at idle. Removing heat at cylinder 4 in the combustion chamber should help with det control.

I would have like to have seen a temp check of the head area on the other cylinders though just for a baseline. Like does cylinder 3's temp increase or cylinder 2? etc etc.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:58 PM   #7
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I actually just had this installed in my GR STI by a local shop that sells them. Does it work? I'm not sure, but they use them in all their new builds and they back it up 100%. IMO ~$200 (cost of part plus install) is worth the peace of mind.

I'm actually curious to see if anyone else aside from Dom himself has done tests with the part installed.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:27 PM   #8
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I've seen successful head cooling mods used in Terminators as well. If it's a measurable drop in temperature it's not going to do anything but help.
For $90 I'll probably end up trying it myself..
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:36 PM   #9
Valarius Starchaser
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been looking into these as well planning on picking one up soon for next time my intercooler comes off
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:29 AM   #10
redrexmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevincredible View Post
I actually just had this installed in my GR STI by a local shop that sells them. Does it work? I'm not sure, but they use them in all their new builds and they back it up 100%. IMO ~$200 (cost of part plus install) is worth the peace of mind.

I'm actually curious to see if anyone else aside from Dom himself has done tests with the part installed.
I also have GR. Would you please take a few pictures of the reverse cooling hose installed on your vehicle. I'd like to see exactly where they t-spliced in the cooling line as well as the other end which screws into the engine block. Thanks!
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Old 08-22-2018, 08:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XSPWR View Post
I've seen successful head cooling mods used in Terminators as well. If it's a measurable drop in temperature it's not going to do anything but help.
For $90 I'll probably end up trying it myself..
Similar idea to the steam vents on LS cylinder heads. The LS2/3/6/7 only vent the front ports on the cylinder heads creating hot pockets in the rear of the heads over cylinders 7 and 8. Add steam vents to the rear and tie them into the fronts and I've recorded noticeable decreases in water temps.

I'll try this on my GR since I'll be doing a fairly large overhaul in the next couple weeks before I redyno. Worst case scenario is I have a coolant hose I didn't really need in the first place. No harm, no foul.
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:01 PM   #12
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I'm starting to come around in terms of believing this could be a worthwhile modification - I see the theory in it; basically, it replicates the turbo-side cooling circuit. What I would *like* to see, though, is something better than an IR temperature read of the cylinder 4 temperatures (logging a new sensor, etc.).
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Old 08-22-2018, 03:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
I'm starting to come around in terms of believing this could be a worthwhile modification - I see the theory in it; basically, it replicates the turbo-side cooling circuit. What I would *like* to see, though, is something better than an IR temperature read of the cylinder 4 temperatures (logging a new sensor, etc.).
I agree, better data is required. But changing surface temperature that quickly is still impressive. Unless buddy is standing in the engine bay with a fan blowing on it.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:54 PM   #14
redrexmeister
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Do you guys see any negatives of installing this kit? If there are no negatives (exc. potential leak) I will buy the part and install it myself.

As I learned from social media, one of our popular local Suby shops started to offer this mod, their install price is well over $300... I guess due to product novelty .

Dom apparently had the install video, but had to take it down as some people became confused thinking that install requires pulling out the motor. In Dom's install video the motor was out only because he worked on rebuilding someone's engine, and it was easier to shoot the video that way. The instructions on the site clearly indicate that no engine pulling is necessary.

If people could post pictures of the mod install process in this thread it would be really helpful. Thanks!
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:30 PM   #15
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I will be using this product myself on our next EJ shop car. Dom has been in the Subaru game a long time, and one thing I can say for sure, is that he does his homework and is very data driven. If the product didn't work as advertised, he wouldn't be offering it. Based on what I've seen and heard, it's worth every penny.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:50 PM   #16
MPS-Dom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Silicon is used for making computer chips, silicone is used for seals and hose (or "titty upgrades" in the past, now, saline)

I think the biggest issue "may" be intake airflow or fueling to that cylinder, likely a coolant hose is a bandaid.
I never tried it or saw it, so, who knows?

Didn't see where this attaches.

Looks like $10 in parts wholesale.

How about try it and report back?
The intake is not related at all, actually. I have 5 videos where I cover the initial idea, the development, the reason and the proof for the product.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphi View Post
I think this is a solid idea and the proof is in the video that the cylinder head temperature does drop a significant amount just at the surface and at idle. Removing heat at cylinder 4 in the combustion chamber should help with det control.

I would have like to have seen a temp check of the head area on the other cylinders though just for a baseline. Like does cylinder 3's temp increase or cylinder 2? etc etc.
I have EGT data that shows the delta between cylinders drops dramatically. The size of the hole in the fitting was set appropriately to minimize any impact to other cylinders. The way it works it actually improves total water pump flow and stabilizing running temps. Many customers are seeing a 5 degree drop in overall coolant temps. This is due to the increase in total circulation flow better utilizing the existing cooling capacity. I have a theory that the increase in flow also lowers the amount of cavitation at the water pump inlet.

In the following picture you can see the delta is much smaller even after a hard drive.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
Similar idea to the steam vents on LS cylinder heads. The LS2/3/6/7 only vent the front ports on the cylinder heads creating hot pockets in the rear of the heads over cylinders 7 and 8. Add steam vents to the rear and tie them into the fronts and I've recorded noticeable decreases in water temps.

I'll try this on my GR since I'll be doing a fairly large overhaul in the next couple weeks before I redyno. Worst case scenario is I have a coolant hose I didn't really need in the first place. No harm, no foul.
Not really steam vents because the hose is at the back middle, but I get what you're saying. The flowpath of the coolant on the LH head biases cylinder 2 and practically neglects cylinder 4. This hose promotes flow to cylinder 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I will be using this product myself on our next EJ shop car. Dom has been in the Subaru game a long time, and one thing I can say for sure, is that he does his homework and is very data driven. If the product didn't work as advertised, he wouldn't be offering it. Based on what I've seen and heard, it's worth every penny.
Thanks, guys.

Last edited by MPS-Dom; 08-22-2018 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:54 PM   #17
MPS-Dom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrexmeister View Post
Do you guys see any negatives of installing this kit? If there are no negatives (exc. potential leak) I will buy the part and install it myself.

As I learned from social media, one of our popular local Suby shops started to offer this mod, their install price is well over $300... I guess due to product novelty .

Dom apparently had the install video, but had to take it down as some people became confused thinking that install requires pulling out the motor. In Dom's install video the motor was out only because he worked on rebuilding someone's engine, and it was easier to shoot the video that way. The instructions on the site clearly indicate that no engine pulling is necessary.

If people could post pictures of the mod install process in this thread it would be really helpful. Thanks!
If you watch my video on reverse cooling, you can see that there is absolutely no downside to this modification.

Think about it:
Reverse cooling kept the head cooler and allowed higher compression ratios.
Aluminum heads allowed higher compression ratios because they wicked the heat away from the cylinder faster.

My mod is proven to cool the head (allowing it to wick more heat from the chamber), as shown by both EGTs and Surface temps, that means it's just providing improved reverse cooling and aluminum head benefits. No other data should be needed. However, many customers have written me about more balanced temps, lower operating temps, near elimination of random knock events etc. I don't know what else to provide to the public.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphi View Post
I agree, better data is required. But changing surface temperature that quickly is still impressive. Unless buddy is standing in the engine bay with a fan blowing on it.
Did you watch the video? I was alone.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:11 PM   #19
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This is the "general" path of coolant from supply to discharge.
It enters at the bottom of the block, moves along the lower cylinder cooling jacket and into the head. From the head it goes up around the chambers and out into the upper cylinder cooling jacket and out the top to the crossover pipe.

You can clearly see how the coolant starts at the very front, is biased towards cyl2 and has very little driving head forcing it over the back of the head by cylinder 4. It is also a cramped supply flow path when compared to that of the RH head.



here you can see the RH head has a very balanced distribution of coolant to both cylinders. You can also see that the feed is not restricted like the LH head.


See how much more room there is at this supply port?



This is the path I'm adding. The size of the hole in the fitting at the back of the head is much smaller than the available diameter because I don't want to remove flow from other cylinders or make your heater core ineffective by reducing the DP across the heater core dramatically. Testing has shown that this is made at the correct size and is doing everything I wanted it to do and more.

Please watch my video on the product release.

Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of the intake manifold used.
Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of the exhaust manifold used.
Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of IAT, Intercooling, tuning etc.
Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of EMS or fuel setup.

*unless you intentionally add more fuel and remove timing from cylinder 4 of course. You'd have to give it more fuel than other cylinders and less timing.

That all proves a huge imbalance. What's the source of the imbalance? Inadequate Cooling.
Which I fixed.


Last edited by MPS-Dom; 08-22-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrexmeister View Post
I also have GR. Would you please take a few pictures of the reverse cooling hose installed on your vehicle. I'd like to see exactly where they t-spliced in the cooling line as well as the other end which screws into the engine block. Thanks!
I'm not sure if you can actually see it unless you remove the intercooler. I haven't been able to find an angle where it's visible at least. Next time I have my intercooler off I'll snap a photo. Otherwise, I saw a photo of this installed somewhere online. I'll see if I can find it.
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Old 08-23-2018, 09:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
Did you watch the video? I was alone.
Watch every video. I was just saying this in jest
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:43 AM   #22
Charlie-III
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OK, I am not an ME or similar.
Most of your videos, make sense.

I have a sorta built 2.5L 98 MAF based NA Legacy using an STi block with higher CR pistons. Mostly for mid range power since pulling 1200+lb trailers. No real tuning available unless change ECU, piggyback or standalone.
Son has a 04 RS with full 05 STi swap, mild mods.
What kit should we look at?
As I said before, does not look like it hurts, may be worth looking at.
Son will have engine out next week.
I can pull mine anytime.

Didn't see install directions, no clue what is involved in installing your mod.

Curious, more for my son.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:59 AM   #23
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Any plans to make these kits fit MY's earlier than 08.
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger1138 View Post
Any plans to make these kits fit MY's earlier than 08.
http://shop.getadomtune.com/shop.get...-lgt-up-to-07/
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Didn't see install directions, no clue what is involved in installing your mod.
Install instructions are there. Take a look over in the version for pre-2008 models. His videos are there as well. You just need a magnifying glass to read it on-line.

Dom -
If I am reading your graphs correctly, while you kit brings down the cylinder #4 temp, it also causes the temps to rise in cylinders #1, #2, & #3. Looks like your kit is bring all cylinder temps in alignment with each other to reduce "spots" of hot & cold.

Is this correct or am I reading your chart wrong?

This looks like a worthy mod, especially for the price
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