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Old 04-17-2020, 02:26 AM   #451
jskar89
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Strongly considering picking up this kit and have one question:

I am running a rotated Precision 6062. Because this turbo is oil-cooled and the cylinder 3 port is plugged now, would cylinder 3 now theoretically be running at a higher temp just like cylinder 4?

This is where my ignorance shines through. I lack the knowledge on how the coolant loop now functions when cylinder 3 is plugged due to an oil-cooled turbo. If this area is now at a reduced flow like cylinder 4, I am wondering what the fix would be for cylinder 3.

Appreciate any help on this and apologies for my lack of knowledge on this particular subject.
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Old 04-17-2020, 02:48 AM   #452
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
The real question is how can they prove the parts you put on caused the failure. And is it legitimate.
Like Car_freak85 said earlier, MMA only covers direct replacement parts. So unless it is a direct replacement, they donít have to. In this situation, regardless how great the part is, you are adding an aftermarket part and altering what is the original design of the engine. Which is why I am wondering if anyone happens to know of any conversation off the record.
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Old 04-17-2020, 06:48 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by TifosiWA View Post
Like Car_freak85 said earlier, MMA only covers direct replacement parts. So unless it is a direct replacement, they donít have to. In this situation, regardless how great the part is, you are adding an aftermarket part and altering what is the original design of the engine. Which is why I am wondering if anyone happens to know of any conversation off the record.
It really depends on the dealership. A long time ago my car needed a wheel bearing. And it was still under warranty. But the car had 500whp. They could've easily said the added power strained it. But they replaced it and told me dude your car is awesome!
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:14 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by TifosiWA View Post
Like Car_freak85 said earlier, MMA only covers direct replacement parts. So unless it is a direct replacement, they don't have to. In this situation, regardless how great the part is, you are adding an aftermarket part and altering what is the original design of the engine. Which is why I am wondering if anyone happens to know of any conversation off the record.
Bingo. You'd have to know the Japanese engineer who designed the twin-turbo EJ engine's cooling circuit to really know the inside scoop (the theory being Dom modeled his part on the cooling circuit nipple present on these TT engines). Maybe @teshimades, the styling designer of the original Impreza, could give us the powertrain engineer's contact information so we could get the final word on all of this?

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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
It really depends on the dealership.
Partly on the dealer's reporting to the mothership, but the final say lies with the OEM. On a piddling warranty request like a wheel bearing, yeah, probably not a big deal and it'll get pencil whipped. But this cooling mod doesn't mount to a low-buck assembly like the spindle. Anything funny about a dusted engine under warranty is going to draw the Eye of Sauron before the mothership cuts a check to the dealership for the warranty repair.
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Old 04-17-2020, 04:15 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
/\ Only applies to direct replacement parts like tires, brake pads, piston rings, etc., not hot rodding parts. If you knowingly modify an assembly using parts that were never installed in the first place, that is what voids your warranty.
Not how I remember it, but in all honesty I haven't reviewed that document in probably over 10 years. Sounds like I need to review.
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Old 04-17-2020, 04:27 PM   #456
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Basically you can use whatever brand of air filter you prefer, any oil that is the correct grade, silicone wiper blades, etc. <-- It would be on them to prove a like-for-like part caused the failure.

What you can't do is install a Spoolinator turbo kit under warranty and expect Subaru to cover your ring lands. <--Not hard to prove you intentionally modified the warranted assembly with the intent to alter it from its intended design/purpose/whathaveyou, regardless if the part/modification actually caused the failure.

Maintenance is protected under the MMA, hotrodding is not.
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:23 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
Bingo. You'd have to know the Japanese engineer who designed the twin-turbo EJ engine's cooling circuit to really know the inside scoop (the theory being Dom modeled his part on the cooling circuit nipple present on these TT engines). Maybe @teshimades, the styling designer of the original Impreza, could give us the powertrain engineer's contact information so we could get the final word on all of this?



Partly on the dealer's reporting to the mothership, but the final say lies with the OEM. On a piddling warranty request like a wheel bearing, yeah, probably not a big deal and it'll get pencil whipped. But this cooling mod doesn't mount to a low-buck assembly like the spindle. Anything funny about a dusted engine under warranty is going to draw the Eye of Sauron before the mothership cuts a check to the dealership for the warranty repair.
I can understand if the car came in with no coolant in it. Or a blockage in the added part. But I really don't see them glancing at that and saying nope take it out of here.
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Old 04-17-2020, 08:07 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
I can understand if the car came in with no coolant in it. Or a blockage in the added part. But I really don't see them glancing at that and saying nope take it out of here.
If we are talking about a $200 repair, maybe not. If we are talking about a >$2,000 repair bill, you can almost certainly bet that they will.
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:37 PM   #459
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If we are talking about a $200 repair, maybe not. If we are talking about a >$2,000 repair bill, you can almost certainly bet that they will.
Idk I bought my car from dealer and it's never been back **** them they're crooks. Even if they do a warranty job on a full engine rebuild they will most likely do a **** job granted it depends on the tech and how he takes pride in his work. But it'll also come down to what the dealers willing to replace. If it's worn out but in spec you better believe they will use it. Me on the other hand no. If I can afford it it's getting replaced if not cars sitting while I daily my nice comfy ua6 Acura lol and I'll still walk all over a wrx on the highway with that to boot!
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:07 PM   #460
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Originally Posted by jskar89 View Post
Strongly considering picking up this kit and have one question:



I am running a rotated Precision 6062. Because this turbo is oil-cooled and the cylinder 3 port is plugged now, would cylinder 3 now theoretically be running at a higher temp just like cylinder 4?



This is where my ignorance shines through. I lack the knowledge on how the coolant loop now functions when cylinder 3 is plugged due to an oil-cooled turbo. If this area is now at a reduced flow like cylinder 4, I am wondering what the fix would be for cylinder 3.



Appreciate any help on this and apologies for my lack of knowledge on this particular subject.


Iíd be really curious about this as well.
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:17 AM   #461
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Iíd be really curious about this as well.
Bearing in mind the block isn't completely symmetrical, but broadly speaking yes - you're correct - it would make sense to add an outlet to the back side of each block, in order to ensure similar coolant flow past each of the rear cylinders.
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Old 07-03-2020, 04:00 AM   #462
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I was taking a look at the cooling diagram:

https://i.imgur.com/sCbV9gA.jpg

With our without this mod, it looks like coolant flow on the LHS never gets routed through the radiator, so the hot coolant coming from the LHS is cooled down by the cooler coolant coming from the radiator.

So if the mod adds the new flow path indicated by the green path, you're effectively lowering the temperature of (14) LHS Cylinder Head over cylinder #4 by not allowing all the hot coolant that passed through cylinder #2 to pass through the LHS head over cylinder #4.

This looks like it mimics what the turbo line does for the RHS, except the redirected coolant doesn't flow through the radiator.

The EGT balancing out post-mod seem to make sense. Cylinder 4 still should have the hottest EGT since some coolant flow from Cylinder 2 passes through the Cylinder 4 channel.

Without the mod, I don't know how much the coolant cools down on the LHS after leaving the LHS head and before reaching the water pump again. With the mod, the coolant would have less time to cool down since it gets redirected to the water pump faster, making the coolant temperature at the water pump higher as well, which also explains the higher EGT for Cylinder's 1,2,3. Although, given this line of thought, I would expect Cylinder 3's EGT to be higher than Cylinder 1 (assuming all other factors held equal).

Perhaps "increasing coolant flow" isn't the most accurate description?

The net effect seems desirable! I'm wondering what people's experience with this mod has been long-term as it sounds interesting!
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:39 AM   #463
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I've been in another thread discussing this topic as well. I just bought the Vems kit and am toying with the idea of modifying it to flow into the upper res via the coolant outlet from the turbo.

Based on the above diagram, it does appear this may produce the best results since it will go directly to the radiator. However, will it be too much coolant for those small diameter lines? It does appear to be the same path Subaru used for the TT Legacy's.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:34 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokem View Post
I was taking a look at the cooling diagram:

With our without this mod, it looks like coolant flow on the LHS never gets routed through the radiator, so the hot coolant coming from the LHS is cooled down by the cooler coolant coming from the radiator.

So if the mod adds the new flow path indicated by the green path, you're effectively lowering the temperature of (14) LHS Cylinder Head over cylinder #4 by not allowing all the hot coolant that passed through cylinder #2 to pass through the LHS head over cylinder #4.

This looks like it mimics what the turbo line does for the RHS, except the redirected coolant doesn't flow through the radiator.

The EGT balancing out post-mod seem to make sense. Cylinder 4 still should have the hottest EGT since some coolant flow from Cylinder 2 passes through the Cylinder 4 channel.

Without the mod, I don't know how much the coolant cools down on the LHS after leaving the LHS head and before reaching the water pump again. With the mod, the coolant would have less time to cool down since it gets redirected to the water pump faster, making the coolant temperature at the water pump higher as well, which also explains the higher EGT for Cylinder's 1,2,3. Although, given this line of thought, I would expect Cylinder 3's EGT to be higher than Cylinder 1 (assuming all other factors held equal).

Perhaps "increasing coolant flow" isn't the most accurate description?

The net effect seems desirable! I'm wondering what people's experience with this mod has been long-term as it sounds interesting!

The left side, 2&4, has worse coolant flow than the right side, 1&3. Thatís why this exists. Go to post #19. The right side doesnít really need this. The main thing is youíre getting heat OUT of cylinder 4 and more coolant flow around it.

It doesnít really matter that the hot coolant gets redirected back into water pump. The oil cooler, and most of the upper reservoir already flow back to the water pump. Thatís a non-issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
I've been in another thread discussing this topic as well. I just bought the Vems kit and am toying with the idea of modifying it to flow into the upper res via the coolant outlet from the turbo.

Based on the above diagram, it does appear this may produce the best results since it will go directly to the radiator. However, will it be too much coolant for those small diameter lines? It does appear to be the same path Subaru used for the TT Legacy's.

Not all of the upper reservoir flows through the radiator. Looking at hose size, most of it flows back into the water pump. There would probably be no difference between doing that, or just going into the heater core return.

Last edited by RavensFan7; 07-04-2020 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 07-04-2020, 10:47 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by jokem View Post
I was taking a look at the cooling diagram:...
With our without this mod, it looks like coolant flow on the LHS never gets routed through the radiator, so the hot coolant coming from the LHS is cooled down by the cooler coolant coming from the radiator. So if the mod adds the new flow path indicated by the green path, you're effectively lowering the temperature of (14) LHS Cylinder Head over cylinder #4 by not allowing all the hot coolant that passed through cylinder #2 to pass through the LHS head over cylinder #4. This looks like it mimics what the turbo line does for the RHS, except the redirected coolant doesn't flow through the radiator. The EGT balancing out post-mod seem to make sense. Cylinder 4 still should have the hottest EGT since some coolant flow from Cylinder 2 passes through the Cylinder 4 channel. Without the mod, I don't know how much the coolant cools down on the LHS after leaving the LHS head and before reaching the water pump again. With the mod, the coolant would have less time to cool down since it gets redirected to the water pump faster, making the coolant temperature at the water pump higher as well, which also explains the higher EGT for Cylinder's 1,2,3. Although, given this line of thought, I would expect Cylinder 3's EGT to be higher than Cylinder 1 (assuming all other factors held equal)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
I've been in another thread discussing this topic as well. I just bought the Vems kit and am toying with the idea of modifying it to flow into the upper res via the coolant outlet from the turbo.
Based on the above diagram, it does appear this may produce the best results since it will go directly to the radiator. However, will it be too much coolant for those small diameter lines? It does appear to be the same path Subaru used for the TT Legacy's.
Yes that is the same routing used on the JDM TT Legacy by way of formed steel pipe across the engine. So you "want" an additional rubber hose cooling circuit across your engine? Sounds like a risky coolant leak failure someday. Just saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavensFan7 View Post
...Not all of the upper reservoir flows through the radiator. Looking at hose size, most of it flows back into the water pump. There would probably be no difference between doing that, or just going into the heater core return.
Thank you! Glad somebody knows how to correctly interpret a cooling diagram. That small-ish "direct to radiator" hose is nothing more than a de-aeration circuit. As you said the main flow from the upper tank is back to the same location these mod kits are placing the tees. So same task accomplished one with a shorter circuit and one with a longer circuit across the engine.



Is it just me...the topic of this coolant mod is most like reality show entertainment. Just plain silly.
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:04 PM   #466
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Yes that is the same routing used on the JDM TT Legacy by way of formed steel pipe across the engine. So you "want" an additional rubber hose cooling circuit across your engine? Sounds like a risky coolant leak failure someday. Just saying.
You do realize this mod adds 4 connection points to the coolant system all with the potential to leak down the road, whether it's routed to the heater core lines or the upper tank. It is totally and completely possible to route a coolant hose and properly secure it in a way that it will last many, many years before a leak may occur. Idk what redneck rigging you have in mind but anyone who can think outside the box and do it properly...well, I'll digress...

"Just saying."
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:35 PM   #467
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You do realize this mod adds 4 connection points to the coolant system all with the potential to leak down the road, whether it's routed to the heater core lines or the upper tank. It is totally and completely possible to route a coolant hose and properly secure it in a way that it will last many, many years before a leak may occur. Idk what redneck rigging you have in mind but anyone who can think outside the box and do it properly...well, I'll digress...

"Just saying."
Yes, I am capable of grasping that concept. I can also tie my own shoe laces but what does such a lame internet dig accomplish here? Both routing methods have the same number of added leak paths. No one method wins in that regard. So...are you suggesting adding a 2-3 foot length of rubber coolant hose securely across the engine is a great idea? Yea maybe for some and not for others. I am sure that anyone capable of tying their own shoe laces should be able to handle routing and securing rubber hose in their engine bay. That is hardly what I would call either redneck rigging or thinking outside the box.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:40 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Yes, I am capable of grasping that concept. I can also tie my own shoe laces but what does such a lame internet dig accomplish here? Both routing methods have the same number of added leak paths. No one method wins in that regard. So...are you suggesting adding a 2-3 foot length of rubber coolant hose securely across the engine is a great idea? Yea maybe for some and not for others. I am sure that anyone capable of tying their own shoe laces should be able to handle routing and securing rubber hose in their engine bay. That is hardly what I would call either redneck rigging or thinking outside the box.
So, your concerns over where the mod is routed is basically a moot point...

Why did you even bring it up as a concern in the first place???
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Old 07-05-2020, 06:10 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Yes, I am capable of grasping that concept. I can also tie my own shoe laces but what does such a lame internet dig accomplish here? Both routing methods have the same number of added leak paths. No one method wins in that regard. So...are you suggesting adding a 2-3 foot length of rubber coolant hose securely across the engine is a great idea? Yea maybe for some and not for others. I am sure that anyone capable of tying their own shoe laces should be able to handle routing and securing rubber hose in their engine bay. That is hardly what I would call either redneck rigging or thinking outside the box.


Definitely not thinking outside the box since it was OEM for a specific model anyway. But without having OEM pipe/hose diameters available, I just want to make sure I'm not trying to force too much fluid through a bottle necked area.
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Old 07-06-2020, 10:49 AM   #470
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Is it just me...the topic of this coolant mod is most like reality show entertainment. Just plain silly.
It's interesting you say this topic is 'just plain silly' yet have been contributing to it here and in the one about the various kits out there.

If I get first pick of reality show character, I'll pick Scott with the best looking 'ex'
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:09 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
But without having OEM pipe/hose diameters available, I just want to make sure I'm not trying to force too much fluid through a bottle necked area.

Again, most of that upper reservoir will NOT flow through the radiator. It will go right back to the water pump. Same as the cyl4 kit that uses the heater core return. Itís pointless to do it the way youíre thinking of.
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:14 PM   #472
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Iíd like to preface this by saying I donít have any of the kits, and donít really plan to buy one anytime soon. That being said, either buy Domís kit and install the way he intended, or donít do anything at all. He made and tested it this way for very specific reasons. Read posts #16 and #19 from him, or the watch the videos. People in this thread are way overthinking it, and trying to change things they donít understand.

Doing it any other way....larger ID fitting, different flow path, etc....will change things. Are there other ways to do it that could work? Sure...but unless you plan on testing with individial EGT sensors and various coolant probes, youíll never actually know how things are effected.

Last edited by RavensFan7; 07-06-2020 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 07-06-2020, 05:33 PM   #473
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I know Dom would have a field day with the way this thread went.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:24 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by jokem View Post
I was taking a look at the cooling diagram:

https://i.imgur.com/sCbV9gA.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by RavensFan7 View Post
Again,
most
of that upper reservoir will NOT flow through the radiator. It will go right back to the water pump. Same as the cyl4 kit that uses the heater core return. Itís pointless to do it the way youíre thinking of.
Most, but not all. Do you know how much will flow through the radiator vs water pump? I'm being genuinely curious here. I'm getting the impression that your saying 99% does not flow through to rad from the upper tank. I can confidently say I don't know but I doubt very much that "it's pointless to do it the way you're thinking of". Referencing #6 in the coolant flow pic above, there's two hoses that run from the turbo tank to the radiator. One runs to the overflow tank and the other runs to the upper radiator end tank. That's how it's setup on my 2008 WRX at least. So, there would also be flow to the radiator from the turbo tank as well as to the water pump.

I've skipped a few posts, so idk if there was someone thinking it was better to route directly/only to the radiator but that's less than ideal as that offers no flow until the thermostat starts opening. Even then, the flow from the rad would be variable as the thermostat is increasing and reducing flow the hotter and cooler the coolant temps become. Conversely, routing the mod to a water pump return offers flow the second the car is started. Once the car warms up, coolant from the radiator is flowing through the water pump mixing with the coolant lines that directly feed the water pump, but again that's variable. Routing to the turbo tank would likely allow a reduced amount of hot coolant directly feedind the water pump (whick pumps right back into the engine) which would arguably allow for more efficient cooling. Best of both worlds considering the coolant from the TT setup would likely have been heated further when flowing through the turbo. To further support this, why did Subaru run their single turbo return to the upper turbo tank (which has a path to the rad) and not to a line that only leads back to the water pump? Dom may have been knowledgeable to a level to use this information and accurately show positive and highly favorable results. I'll give him that credit at the very least. But until he lands a job at Subaru, in my opinion, his kit is only good enough, which may be satisfactory for 70% of people out there.

The idea of routing to the turbo coolant tank was brought up for a few reasons, iirc. 1) that was the factory routing for the TT setup, 2) there was some concern over heater core performance in colder climates, and 3) some worked on the assumption that Subaru engineers are better at their designs than Dom is (what an absurd notion, right? ). Add those reasons together and some figured there's a reason why Subaru added 2-3 feet of extra coolant line that T'ed in to he right side turbo coolant return and not either of the heater core lines.

But then again, I don't have EGT sensors to pair with my laser thermometer and other various sensors, so I guess I'm not able to understand or think as critically as Dom.
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:46 AM   #475
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Default DOHC EJ Cylinder 4 Combustion Chamber Cooling kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_crazy View Post
Most, but not all. Do you know how much will flow through the radiator vs water pump? I'm being genuinely curious here. I'm getting the impression that your saying 99% does not flow through to rad from the upper tank. I can confidently say I don't know but I doubt very much that "it's pointless to do it the way you're thinking of". Referencing #6 in the coolant flow pic above, there's two hoses that run from the turbo tank to the radiator. One runs to the overflow tank and the other runs to the upper radiator end tank. That's how it's setup on my 2008 WRX at least. So, there would also be flow to the radiator from the turbo tank as well as to the water pump.
Iíd say just based off looking at the port/hose sizes, atleast 75% to the water pump, 25% to the radiator. Maybe 80/20. Not really sure. Definitely most.

The amount that would actually make it through the radiator would be so small, I canít see it making any difference over the normal routing into the heater core return.




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