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Old 08-24-2018, 06:30 PM   #51
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXREALTOR View Post
Is it an issue (to FHI) though? Why have a plug in the back of the head?

My thought was perhaps it was engineered that way and the per cylinder knock adjustment, regardless of cylinder, is just a compliment to the strategy of running number 4 with less cooling and placing just one knock sensor on top of it.

This would fall inline with your remarks regarding the bean counters but end like-

'more than one knock sensor is too much money - lower the knock threshold over cylinder 4 and place the one knock sensor you're getting there'

Again - just thinking out loud.
Having worked in manufacturing and many auto brands, sometimes a plug is a way to.......
Get casting material out
Do machining internally but we have to plug a hole.

Notice they're quite a few similar plugs in an EJ? Why make many parts (the plugs) when we can reuse the same one (bean counters) many times?
I don't have ready access to an EJ head, so I don't know what is internal in that spot.
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:32 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Having worked in manufacturing and many auto brands, sometimes a plug is a way to.......
Get casting material out
Do machining internally but we have to plug a hole.

Notice they're quite a few similar plugs in an EJ? Why make many parts (the plugs) when we can reuse the same one (bean counters) many times?
I don't have ready access to an EJ head, so I don't know what is internal in that spot.
Good info.....
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:50 AM   #53
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Has anyone else recorded their EGTs for comparison?

Here's what I recorded with EGT's an equal distance from the valve (not the ex. flange);
Cyl1 = 855*F
Cyl2 = 855*F
Cyl3 = 1065*F
Cyl4 = 993*F

I also noted that after ~4500 RPM the EGTs tended to even out a lot, albeit at much higher temps. These were with E85.
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Old 08-29-2018, 09:33 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by hamr View Post
Has anyone else recorded their EGTs for comparison?

Here's what I recorded with EGT's an equal distance from the valve (not the ex. flange);
Cyl1 = 855*F
Cyl2 = 855*F
Cyl3 = 1065*F
Cyl4 = 993*F

I also noted that after ~4500 RPM the EGTs tended to even out a lot, albeit at much higher temps. These were with E85.
I always thought cyl 3 would get the hottest, especially under load, due to its proximity to the up-pipe and turbo.

Is yours wrapped or bare?
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Old 08-29-2018, 12:55 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by DEANORS View Post
I always thought cyl 3 would get the hottest, especially under load, due to its proximity to the up-pipe and turbo.

Is yours wrapped or bare?
This was a problem with early attempts to hot rod the first WRX models that rolled out in the USA. Unshielded exhausts, big turbos and piping too close to the heads caused problems.

I believe most tuners design manifolds to be a little more conservative with the packaging these days. That said - still worth consideration (and as always, heat shielding).
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:03 PM   #56
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I think you guys are getting caught up in some wild speculation on cyl No 3 that's long been dismissed. This was also speculated to be the cause of many an exhaust bucket problem, but also nixed.

The exhaust has F-A-R to much aluminum (the head) between the cylinder and up-pipe to have any effect on the cylinder or EGTs.

hamr having a hot cyl #3 does raise questions for sure. Mine would be based on the fueling (injector reports, fuel system layout; pressure drop) as a starting point, since the right bank in running hot as a pair. I don't know what the manifold looks like, but many exhausts are not symmetrical and if scavenging is better on one bank than another, that will have an effect as well.
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:49 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEANORS View Post
I always thought cyl 3 would get the hottest, especially under load, due to its proximity to the up-pipe and turbo.

Is yours wrapped or bare?
Wrapped. They were ceramic coated (Cerakote 2400*F), but that flaked off almost immediately so wrapped in volcanic wrap.
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:22 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
hamr having a hot cyl #3 does raise questions for sure. Mine would be based on the fueling (injector reports, fuel system layout; pressure drop) as a starting point, since the right bank in running hot as a pair. I don't know what the manifold looks like, but many exhausts are not symmetrical and if scavenging is better on one bank than another, that will have an effect as well.
At the time, the injectors were new ID2000 injectors. The fuel system is dual parallel-fed AN-8 rails, but the fed does run from the front to back. I was running a base fuel pressure of 43.5 psi at the time. The AN-8 rails were fed from a AN-10 trunk that was serviced by parallel twin 044 Bosch pumps. The fuel pressure logs correctly correlate with manifold pressure. I could reverse the flow direction to see if that has an impact.

Here's the intake manifold.

https://ibb.co/jnOgcp


The exhaust manifold is a Full-Race twin scroll header and I believe that this is where the problem lies. Cylinders 3 and 4 are paired to one part of the turbine wheel and 1 and 2 are paired to another. If there is more low airspeed resistance for the 3-4 scroll path, then it would potentially create more EBP and more heat. I've yet to find anyone who has actually measured this, so I'll be doing it in the next few months. I'll also be using 4-channel lambda probes so see what's actually going on.

Cheers,
HamR
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:19 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I think you guys are getting caught up in some wild speculation on cyl No 3 that's long been dismissed. This was also speculated to be the cause of many an exhaust bucket problem, but also nixed.

The exhaust has F-A-R to much aluminum (the head) between the cylinder and up-pipe to have any effect on the cylinder or EGTs.

hamr having a hot cyl #3 does raise questions for sure. Mine would be based on the fueling (injector reports, fuel system layout; pressure drop) as a starting point, since the right bank in running hot as a pair. I don't know what the manifold looks like, but many exhausts are not symmetrical and if scavenging is better on one bank than another, that will have an effect as well.
Bingo. Also combined with the amount of air flowing through the engine bay would as a lot of cooling as well. Not to mention the oil and coolant flowing through the head and Air is a pretty bad medium to transfer heat through.
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:13 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Delphi View Post
...the amount of air flowing through the engine bay...
Our engine bays are so crammed full of junk that I don't believe there really is very good airflow through the engine bay. You've got air in through the rad, down through the scoop and all of that has to fight past the engine/trans/steering/DP to dump out the bottom rear of the engine bay. No hood vents, no vents into the wheel wells, nothing...
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:41 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by hamr View Post
The exhaust manifold is a Full-Race twin scroll header and I believe that this is where the problem lies. Cylinders 3 and 4 are paired to one part of the turbine wheel and 1 and 2 are paired to another. If there is more low airspeed resistance for the 3-4 scroll path, then it would potentially create more EBP and more heat. I've yet to find anyone who has actually measured this, so I'll be doing it in the next few months. I'll also be using 4-channel lambda probes so see what's actually going on.
Fuel system looks good. Is the regulator dual in or are you running a 'Y' and then in?

I can't answer you on the F-R stuff, but I would think they should have those answers for you in regards to EGB (Exhaust Gas Backpressure). You can just look at it and see the paths are different from bank-to-bank, but I'd be surprised if that added up to that significant of a difference in EGB. As far as the scrolls (when twin scroll) they do feed into different areas on the turbine wheel, but I have no data in regards to what that mean for EGB for each scroll.
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Old 08-30-2018, 01:03 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
Our engine bays are so crammed full of junk that I don't believe there really is very good airflow through the engine bay. You've got air in through the rad, down through the scoop and all of that has to fight past the engine/trans/steering/DP to dump out the bottom rear of the engine bay. No hood vents, no vents into the wheel wells, nothing...
You'd be surprised. Having the bellypan really helps with underhood airflow, as does the hood scoop since it's wider and directs some additional airflow through the exhaust tunnel.

Like any car, sitting still, it's terrible. Going 50+ MPH it's good.
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Old 08-30-2018, 01:51 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The exhaust has F-A-R to much aluminum (the head) between the cylinder and up-pipe to have any effect on the cylinder or EGTs.
I agree that this has always been speculative - it was an idea (i.e. blind guess) spawned by some of the early US-based WRX tuners that were first hitting the 500-600 hp mark with big turbos and tightly packaged one-off manifolds on an engine they had relatively zero experience with.

All the modern manifold packaging is well-spaced but some of the early-2000's magazine shots showed some really stupid designs that looked like the engine was sitting on a messy pile of garden hose.
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:08 AM   #64
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When will the GD kits be available?
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:15 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ImprezziveRS View Post
When will the GD kits be available?
Brrrrrrrbbbb, here comes the airplane!

https://www.iagperformance.com/GDT-C...p/gdt-1000.htm
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:23 AM   #66
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I was over there but didn't find it. I was also looking at domtune site no preorder or order button.

Thanks
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Old 09-01-2018, 12:33 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Titter View Post
3/8 threaded NPT fitting - $3.99
Coolant safe heater hose - $1.39/ft
3/8 T fitting - $8.49
Crush clamps - $5.49/ bag of 10
(all prices in canadian dollars)

guess iíll make my own. anyone want one? iíll cut you a deal $88USD

i mean, thanks for solving a known issue and all, but $89USD is robbery. if it was like $40-$50 i might have bought one. but instead, corporate greed opens the door for ppl to steal your idea and make their own and thus you losing sales.

but what do i know, iím just some dude on the internet.
Not much, apparently. Corporate greed?!?!? I'm one dude who's putting all the profits into the other projects I'm working on. Each kit comes with a thank you letter that describes where I'm putting all the money. I'm so greedy! **** YOU.

It's M20x1.5, not 3/8 NPT.

You can't get a fitting with the right internal diameter.

My fitting is gold anodized 6061 Aluminum that I have made custom, right here in the USA. You aren't getting custom, short run parts like that for 3.99. If there was a shelf alternative that worked effectively, why the **** would I have spent tens of thousands of dollars making fittings?

Brass and aluminum don't get along.

Make the fitting too long and it will hit the steering shaft.

Make the internal diameter too big and you reduce cooling to the other cylinders and make the heater core hardly work. But hey, since I did all the work for you, you can just steal my diameter right? Nothing ethically wrong with that.... All the damn hours spent on the dyno, making various temp probe setups work, buying all sorts of RTD drivers, different fittings etc etc., logging temps at various loads and rpms with and without fans etc etc.

I'm using high quality silicon hose that's $6 a foot.

The hose clamps I use are a high quality clamp. The worm drive are non-perforated, stainless steel, rolled edge clamps. If you knew what the hell I've been through just to get the right clamps so that there isn't a lot of hangover once you tighten it... ****... It's a size that isn't available without special order of thousands of dollars in ****ing worm drive clamps that cost a buck each.

My price is 89 and includes Priority Mail shipping.

If it's too much for you, maybe you need another hobby.
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Old 09-01-2018, 12:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ImprezziveRS View Post
I was over there but didn't find it. I was also looking at domtune site no preorder or order button.

Thanks
Maybe your browser is having issues.

The pre-order button on my site works fine. I received 3 orders today.

Regardless, IAG, Phatbotti, Six Star and a few others have them in stock.
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:22 AM   #69
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Not much, apparently. Corporate greed?!?!? I'm one dude who's putting all the profits into the other projects I'm working on. Each kit comes with a thank you letter that describes where I'm putting all the money. I'm so greedy! **** YOU.



It's M20x1.5, not 3/8 NPT.



You can't get a fitting with the right internal diameter.



My fitting is gold anodized 6061 Aluminum that I have made custom, right here in the USA. You aren't getting custom, short run parts like that for 3.99. If there was a shelf alternative that worked effectively, why the **** would I have spent tens of thousands of dollars making fittings?



Brass and aluminum don't get along.



Make the fitting too long and it will hit the steering shaft.



Make the internal diameter too big and you reduce cooling to the other cylinders and make the heater core hardly work. But hey, since I did all the work for you, you can just steal my diameter right? Nothing ethically wrong with that.... All the damn hours spent on the dyno, making various temp probe setups work, buying all sorts of RTD drivers, different fittings etc etc., logging temps at various loads and rpms with and without fans etc etc.



I'm using high quality silicon hose that's $6 a foot.



The hose clamps I use are a high quality clamp. The worm drive are non-perforated, stainless steel, rolled edge clamps. If you knew what the hell I've been through just to get the right clamps so that there isn't a lot of hangover once you tighten it... ****... It's a size that isn't available without special order of thousands of dollars in ****ing worm drive clamps that cost a buck each.



My price is 89 and includes Priority Mail shipping.



If it's too much for you, maybe you need another hobby.


Wow. If I had a product I did that much work to create to help other people I would not have been able to say it so nicely as that.
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Old 09-01-2018, 06:05 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
Not much, apparently. Corporate greed?!?!? I'm one dude who's putting all the profits into the other projects I'm working on. Each kit comes with a thank you letter that describes where I'm putting all the money. I'm so greedy! **** YOU.

It's M20x1.5, not 3/8 NPT.

You can't get a fitting with the right internal diameter.

My fitting is gold anodized 6061 Aluminum that I have made custom, right here in the USA. You aren't getting custom, short run parts like that for 3.99. If there was a shelf alternative that worked effectively, why the **** would I have spent tens of thousands of dollars making fittings?

Brass and aluminum don't get along.

Make the fitting too long and it will hit the steering shaft.

Make the internal diameter too big and you reduce cooling to the other cylinders and make the heater core hardly work. But hey, since I did all the work for you, you can just steal my diameter right? Nothing ethically wrong with that.... All the damn hours spent on the dyno, making various temp probe setups work, buying all sorts of RTD drivers, different fittings etc etc., logging temps at various loads and rpms with and without fans etc etc.

I'm using high quality silicon hose that's $6 a foot.

The hose clamps I use are a high quality clamp. The worm drive are non-perforated, stainless steel, rolled edge clamps. If you knew what the hell I've been through just to get the right clamps so that there isn't a lot of hangover once you tighten it... ****... It's a size that isn't available without special order of thousands of dollars in ****ing worm drive clamps that cost a buck each.

My price is 89 and includes Priority Mail shipping.

If it's too much for you, maybe you need another hobby.
Amen.
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:45 PM   #71
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To all the complainers in here go somewhere else. Dom knows his ****.
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Old 09-01-2018, 04:03 PM   #72
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I've got no issues with paying the guy that designed the kit... but this response is a little overboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
The hose clamps I use are a high quality clamp. The worm drive are non-perforated, stainless steel, rolled edge clamps. If you knew what the hell I've been through just to get the right clamps so that there isn't a lot of hangover once you tighten it... ****... It's a size that isn't available without special order of thousands of dollars in ****ing worm drive clamps that cost a buck each.
The clamps in the images are Oetiker's clamps - nothing special about those. They are commonly sold as pressurized soda machine hose clamps to the fast food industry. In the last decade, OEM's have been using them on emissions hoses to prevent unintended tampering/removal. The sizing for these is incredibly generous with one size of clamp being suitable for a 5 mm O.D. spread or better, in most cases.



If you are including worm drive clamps for the rubber coolant heater core hose you're cutting... why? Oetiker clamps would work great here but given most people wouldn't want to buy the $5 tool to install them right, two OEM-size heater hose spring clamps are dirt cheap and pretty much last forever if you don't remove/reinstall them more than a few times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
I'm using high quality silicon hose that's $6 a foot.
Again... why? The hose being silicone is probably not what I would have chosen given the permeability and the fact that most buyers are just doing street driving. All rubber coolant hoses are EDPM now anyhow, so the durability against tearing really makes them a better choice unless you need a crazy fitted shape.

Your R&D time is well worth $90 for the kit but the honest answer would have been:

"I knew my kit would be copied within a month so the initial price was set intentionally high to recoup a slight profit given my development time and manufacturing costs on the fitting." This kit is a get-in, get-out quick product.

I am very familiar with paying crazy costs for custom fittings (FHS Racing, etc.), but your custom fitting is only worth the money you put into it until Kinugawa (or similar) puts in a 3000 pc. MOQ with a factory in China. This isn't some crazy dry break fitting, swivel banjo, or anything else that requires a ton of design work to manufacture.

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 09-01-2018 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:04 PM   #73
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I've got one in the cart, but not paying until most of the engine parts are installed, to be sure it was wiggle room for hose routing. The clamps are fixed, so once it's tightened there is no rotating, and you definitely don't want the hose kinking.
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:43 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
Maybe your browser is having issues.

The pre-order button on my site works fine. I received 3 orders today.

Regardless, IAG, Phatbotti, Six Star and a few others have them in stock.
Just checked your site Dom and on the GD up to 07 you can only add to wish list. No option to buy or preorder. Just wanted to let you know.

I did order one from IAG. THANKS FOR YOUR WORK!
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:54 PM   #75
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No one wants to pay, but everyone wants the item.

Everyone wants cheap when they mean inexpensive. When you want cheap, you usually end-up with poor quality.

The cheap will push-out the higher-priced good quality items.

Buy it or don't buy it.
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