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Old 11-21-2020, 08:00 PM   #326
JP Chestnut
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Originally Posted by R P View Post
Except your description wasn't even remotely close to how it works in reality. I find the Subaru EyeSight is very precise, compared to other makes. I also have a Hyundai, and while it too, works much better than you described, it is not as good as Subaru's.


Makes me wonder how much you even drove with EyeSight and maybe just assuming or influenced by other fake internet anecdotes.
My wifeís 2018 outback freaks out anytime someone makes a left turn in front of me and I go around them rather than wait.

If that doesnít happen to you itís because you drive like a grandma.
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:53 PM   #327
R P
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Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
My wife***8217;s 2018 outback freaks out anytime someone makes a left turn in front of me and I go around them rather than wait.

If that doesn***8217;t happen to you it***8217;s because you drive like a grandma.
No, I know how to use my signal lights. Maybe you need a driver's refresher course?
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:05 PM   #328
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I follow a guy on Youtube and we happen to both be in the Subaru BRZ FB group and he just recently turbo'd his BRZ. He did a nice breakdown video of the costs and has done a few driving videos too. Overall I think his videos are worth a view if you're interested in the specific topics he brings up. I mostly follow him because he's in the process of swapping an SVX EG33 with a turbo into a VA STI, and I think it's gonna be nuts.

http://youtu.be/LMBxPI1Gb-0

When I had my BRZ I had zero desire to turbo it because I just didn't want the added cost, complexity and weight. I'm still overall iffy on Subaru engines with turbos. But I did look a lot into bolt-ons and a tune and felt those would be adequate for the BRZ. The 2022 BRZ pretty much addresses those issues. If you include bolt-ons, I don't see why the new BRZ won't make almost 250 HP.
Thanks for the link. I watched a number of his vids.
So, my first impression is F THAT at this point in my life, lol.
Ill wrench bolt-ons all day on factory FI cars, but that was a very good high-level reminder of why I really dont want to even go there on a BRZ at this point. I remember looking into it like 6-7 years ago.

It is pretty much what I needed to see.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:58 PM   #329
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The current BRZ is available with a Performance Package that includes Brembo brakes and other performance upgrades. A similar package for the 2022 model won't be available at launch, but one is coming.
-Car and Driver

Thought that was an interesting to know, while im rather pleased with the 18" wheels that come on the limited (huge improvement over the current gen imo) id be even more interest to see what Subaru adds to a PP. Probably just be brembos and BBS wheels, but id hope it was more extensive, like the club trim on the miatas
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Old 11-22-2020, 02:30 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by BlueCarGuy View Post
-Car and Driver

Thought that was an interesting to know, while im rather pleased with the 18" wheels that come on the limited (huge improvement over the current gen imo) id be even more interest to see what Subaru adds to a PP. Probably just be brembos and BBS wheels, but id hope it was more extensive, like the club trim on the miatas

The Miata club adds LSD and Recaros on top of the Brembos, BBS, and suspension tuning, IIRC. BRZ has LSD standard and the standard seats are great.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:10 AM   #331
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Why are you posting in a thread dedicated to an enthusiast car..or for that matter in an enthusiast forum at all? If a car is just an A to B device for you, then this car dies not make sense for you at all.
This forum is faking retarded sometimes. My 2020 Forester is one of the cars I own and I am allowed to have an A to B car if I please and post what I thought about it.


Zak - You're good, I know what you meant and I agree that sometimes it's just best not to have forced intervention. I like my STI too for it's old school pureness.
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:03 AM   #332
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Thanks for the link. I watched a number of his vids.
So, my first impression is F THAT at this point in my life, lol.
Ill wrench bolt-ons all day on factory FI cars, but that was a very good high-level reminder of why I really dont want to even go there on a BRZ at this point. I remember looking into it like 6-7 years ago.

It is pretty much what I needed to see.

$10k for 280whp. Yikes. The car would probably turn better lap times if I put that $10k toward suspension tuning and driver instruction.
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:51 PM   #333
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FI on the previous gen FA isn't worth it. There's a lot of horror stories. Bolt-ons and a tune (~190whp) on the previous generation fixed all my complaints on my '13 and made it a reliable track car. It fixed the torque dip and felt a solid bit quicker. Spend the rest of the money on tires/suspension and track days. This new version looks to have addressed alot of the previous gen's issues.
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:09 PM   #334
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FI on the previous gen FA isn't worth it. There's a lot of horror stories. Bolt-ons and a tune (~190whp) on the previous generation fixed all my complaints on my '13 and made it a reliable track car. It fixed the torque dip and felt a solid bit quicker. Spend the rest of the money on tires/suspension and track days. This new version looks to have addressed alot of the previous gen's issues.
Yeah the new motor is going to surprise people I think. It's not a necessarily big bump on paper, but it practice it will make a big difference. The broadness of the powerband and still low curb weight would seem to point to this car being faster than cars like the S2K and RX-8 thanks to all that area under the curve. If it can make a good 20hp on bolt-ons and tune, it would be at a very solid power/lb ratio despite the lack of a turbo; again, especially considering the torque curve.
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Old 11-23-2020, 07:38 AM   #335
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Yeah the new motor is going to surprise people I think. It's not a necessarily big bump on paper, but it practice it will make a big difference. The broadness of the powerband and still low curb weight would seem to point to this car being faster than cars like the S2K and RX-8 thanks to all that area under the curve. If it can make a good 20hp on bolt-ons and tune, it would be at a very solid power/lb ratio despite the lack of a turbo; again, especially considering the torque curve.
Subaru Says There's A Good Reason The 2022 BRZ Doesn't Have A Turbo

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar190327.html

They could of made Two models. Non Turbo other Turbo.
They could spread out costs with Toyota.
There is other choices to Turbo Set Up. super charger maybe.
How about a dealer installed package for people who don't care about weight, center gravity. Well, it comes down down to profits. I think a lot Manufactures are having tough time going forward. Environment, Pandemic, economy, every day is new report contradicting the prior report.

This article from autonews, Sub required

Quote:
Subaru boosts sports car feel in 2022 BRZ
Jack Walsworth
THERMAL, Calif. ***8212; Take one glance at the redesigned 2022 Subaru BRZ and it's clear the coupe remains unlike anything else in the automaker's crossover-heavy lineup.

The elements that defined the original BRZ are still there: rear-wheel drive, a low center of gravity and an emphasis on the driver.

But Subaru has addressed one common BRZ gripe ***8212; lack of power***8212; with a new, naturally aspirated 2.4-liter engine with 228 hp and 184 pound-feet of torque. The engine replaces the coupe's previous 2.0-liter, four-cylinder engine with 205 hp and 156 pound-feet of torque.

The newest BRZ is the first Subaru in the U.S. to get the naturally aspirated version of the 2.4-liter engine. A six-speed manual transmission remains standard, while a six-speed automatic transmission with a sport mode will be available.

"This new BRZ just continues to show our commitment to having an ultra-pure sports car in our lineup," Michael Redic, car line planning manager at Subaru of America, said on the sidelines of the vehicle's debut here last week.

The BRZ, developed with partner Toyota Motor Corp., launched in 2012 and was beginning to show its age. It was freshened for the 2017 model year. The exterior design of the second-generation BRZ is much smoother compared with the outgoing model. The coupe gains functioning front and side vents and a ducktail spoiler, which replaces a pedestal spoiler.

Beyond the uptick in power, the redesign focuses on the cockpit. It's more refined compared with the outgoing model's, Redic said. A 7-inch digital dashboard replaces a physical gauge cluster. The BRZ is the first Subaru model in the U.S. to get the feature.

Also, BRZs with an automatic transmission will now come with Subaru's EyeSight safety equipment as standard. EyeSight is not compatible with a manual transmission.

Subaru, which skipped a 2021 model year BRZ, said U.S. deliveries of the 2022 model will begin in fall 2021. Pricing was not announced.

Last edited by AVANTI R5; 11-23-2020 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:36 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Subaru Says There's A Good Reason The 2022 BRZ Doesn't Have A Turbo

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar190327.html

They could of made Two models. Non Turbo other Turbo.
They could spread out costs with Toyota.
There is other choices to Turbo Set Up. super charger maybe.
How about a dealer installed package for people who don't care about weight, center gravity. Well, it comes down down to profits. I think a lot Manufactures are having tough time going forward. Environment, Pandemic, economy, every day is new report contradicting the prior report.

This article from autonews, Sub required
ain't happening. Ultimately this car is for Toyota and it fills out Toyota's sports car lineup. 86 @ ~$30k, 4 cyl Supra @ ~$40k, 6 cyl Supra @ ~$50k... and gives each a $10k buffer to play with for options and incentives. Subaru is little brother in this partnership and Japan is all about hierarchy. Even if only the Subaru model got forced induction, that would be stepping on Toyota's toes. Subaru won't do that.
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:40 AM   #337
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Aftermarket forced induction is going to be tough with the higher 13.5:1 compression ratio. It will require E85 or race fuel to safely add meaningful boost.

The naturally aspirated engine should respond well to bolt-ons and E85. We'll likely see well tuned versions in the 220-240 whp range depending on the dyno.

Gains of ~30 whp +/- was common with the FA20D with full bolt-ons, E85 and tune. We might see a bit more from the FA24D with its increased displacement and higher compression ratio.

I suspect it will get a power bump or two throughout its life cycle. For the ~20% increase in displacement and higher compression ratio, Subaru is only claiming a ~12% gain in horsepower, but an ~18% bump in torque.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 11-23-2020 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:01 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
ain't happening. Ultimately this car is for Toyota and it fills out Toyota's sports car lineup. 86 @ ~$30k, 4 cyl Supra @ ~$40k, 6 cyl Supra @ ~$50k... and gives each a $10k buffer to play with for options and incentives. Subaru is little brother in this partnership and Japan is all about hierarchy. Even if only the Subaru model got forced induction, that would be stepping on Toyota's toes. Subaru won't do that.
And don't forget that Toyota will be coming out with the GR Corolla to fill in as a turbo compact in their lineup.

It's a pretty good extensive lineup of performance cars where coupes / sports cars just don't sell outside of pony cars.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:05 PM   #339
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Yeah the new motor is going to surprise people I think. It's not a necessarily big bump on paper, but it practice it will make a big difference. The broadness of the powerband and still low curb weight would seem to point to this car being faster than cars like the S2K and RX-8 thanks to all that area under the curve. If it can make a good 20hp on bolt-ons and tune, it would be at a very solid power/lb ratio despite the lack of a turbo; again, especially considering the torque curve.
184lb/ft is nothing. My FiST has more torque even running regular gas. The new BRZ will be (will need to be) faster than a RX8 because those things were stupid slow, but doubt it can beat a S2K... I'd be pleasantly surprised if it does.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:16 PM   #340
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If they'd made a turbo option, it would cost $36-38k and all we'd hear about it how the PP Ecoboost Mustang, base Mustang GT, Camaro, TypeR or Supra is more car for the money. Plus, they'd probably have had to upgrade a lot of components throughout the drivetrain.

If they'd made it turbo only, it still would probably be $35k base and would still get compared with other cars.

I think $30k is the sweet spot where even someone like me, who leans more towards the Mustang option, is willing to give the BRZ a look, due to the sharper reflexes and lighter feel. If that were taken away, due to the trade-offs needed to make the car turbocharged, I'd probably just get the Mustang.

TLDR: I think Subaru did the right thing with this gen. 2 BRZ, keeping it non-turbo. In addition, I think the fenders will look good in person and I think the tail lights look sharp.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:35 PM   #341
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I don***8217;t buy the addition of a turbo forcing the price up to $35-$40k.
The base AWD WRX is $27k. That***8217;s a turbo and all the cost of AWD, yeah shared components, economies of scale blah blah.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:57 PM   #342
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How they turbo when engine is already sitting on the ground and firewall y0.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:59 PM   #343
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I don***8217;t buy the addition of a turbo forcing the price up to $35-$40k.
The base AWD WRX is $27k. That***8217;s a turbo and all the cost of AWD, yeah shared components, economies of scale blah blah.
WRX is amortized by Impreza, Crosstrek, and Forester. BRZ is its own unique thing and has to pay back its development with far less volume.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:59 PM   #344
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I don***8217;t buy the addition of a turbo forcing the price up to $35-$40k.
The base AWD WRX is $27k. That***8217;s a turbo and all the cost of AWD, yeah shared components, economies of scale blah blah.
That's fair. Counterpoint would be, then why does the BRZ currently cost more than the base WRX?
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Old 11-23-2020, 03:33 PM   #345
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That's fair. Counterpoint would be, then why does the BRZ currently cost more than the base WRX?
In terms of features and amenities, the "base" BRZ is the limited model. So it has a lot of features that the WRX lacks (dual zone climate control, leather seats, heated seats, keyless entry and start, auto headlamps, etc. So features comparable to a premium / limited WRX. That's the price point to be making a comparison against.

Aside from that, the BRZ is a lower production car. The WRX sold about 10x what the BRZ has sold (using 2019 numbers). Additionally, the VA being a derivative platform of the GR, helps lower parts and manufacturing costs a bit.
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Old 11-23-2020, 03:45 PM   #346
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If it were that easy to just slap a turbo on it and give "people what they want" then it would've been done already.

How many sub-$30k, sub-3k lbs, RWD, turbo, Japanese sport coupes have ever been made? Legit question as I'm not well-versed in such things.
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Old 11-23-2020, 04:11 PM   #347
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I'd buy a skunk RWD WRX from Subaru. Make it.
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Old 11-23-2020, 04:21 PM   #348
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How many sub-$30k, sub-3k lbs, RWD, turbo, Japanese sport coupes have ever been made? Legit question as I'm not well-versed in such things.
Depends on how you want to count it. Each gen as its own? Not adjusted for inflation? Not limited to having been available in the US? Like... 20 nissan "z/sx/silvia" variants, ~4 RX7s (the FD turbo was over 30k even in the 90s IIRC), 3 MR2s.

On topic: Do we have any info on if they added eccentric bolts/camber adjustment at all?
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Old 11-23-2020, 04:34 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
Depends on how you want to count it. Each gen as its own? Not adjusted for inflation? Not limited to having been available in the US? Like... 20 nissan "z/sx/silvia" variants, ~4 RX7s (the FD turbo was over 30k even in the 90s IIRC), 3 MR2s.

On topic: Do we have any info on if they added eccentric bolts/camber adjustment at all?
Limited to North America, not adjusted for inflation. I've read that the FD RX-7 and turbo MR2 were closer to $40k at the time. I'm not familiar with Nissan offerings, but I was under the impression that there really haven't been any turbo RWD coupes from Japan for under $30k ever.
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Old 11-23-2020, 05:33 PM   #350
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90s Turbo MR2 MSRPd for mid 20s.
FB turbo RX7s were 15-20k.
FC turbo RX7s were 20-27k.
Late 80s 300zx turbo was 26k.
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