Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday November 29, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2020, 04:41 PM   #51
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Yup. I understand that, for the 1st gen, Subaru had no suitable N/A engines AND no suitable turbo engines (Toyota was never going to allow dinosaur EJ25 turbo into a GT86).
They HAD TO destroke FB20 to get a reliable higher rev'ing engine (FB20 had too much stroke to rev comfortably and 129.X mm rods are not helping either).
But, today, we have FA20DIT and FA24DIT; seems like re-engineering FA24DIT to make good NA power is just costly masochism, IMO.
I'd drop the 205-hp FA20 as is into the 2nd gen for those who demand uncorrupted NA power and then I'd drop either FA20DIT or FA24DIT as an optional engine for those who don't mind turbo power delivery.
But, then again, maybe it just doesn't make financial sense to offer 2 engines in a car like this. Don't know.
I recall Subaru having said (pretty sure it was when the fa20dit released in the WRX) that they could not just drop this motor into the BRZ because the placement of everything would drop the turbo too low in relation to the ground.

whether that was an excuse from a marketing team so they didn't have to give a real answer, who knows, but that's what they said.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
samagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-07-2020, 04:55 PM   #52
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
Yeah, unfortunately sometimes overwhelming cost kills dreams.
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 05:00 PM   #53
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
He was talking about offering 2 engines, NA and Turbo. That requires certifying 2 completely different cars even though it might be the same car otherwise. That just adds cost.

Plus Toyota apparently didn't want turbo on the 86 (?) so why not just keep it all the same for the BRZ.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 05:02 PM   #54
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

If one's looking for a >300hp/300lb-ft car, stick with the 400Z thread. This thread is for BRZ folks and no need to ruin their excitement.

I'm actually pretty excited myself to drive the next BRZ to see what it is all about. So far the car looks 100x better than the Z.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 05:38 PM   #55
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

So ruining the excitement for the Z in the Z thread by saying it***8217;s ugly over and over again is ok but discussing the BRZ isn***8217;t ok here? You brought up the Z in this thread and had to call it ugly to prove what exactly?
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 06:10 PM   #56
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
I didn't even consider the cost of the manual and auto Aisin trannies; thanks for calling it out.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 07:07 PM   #57
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
So ruining the excitement for the Z in the Z thread by saying it***8217;s ugly over and over again is ok but discussing the BRZ isn***8217;t ok here? You brought up the Z in this thread and had to call it ugly to prove what exactly?
You should read the post again. My point was if you want more power keep it in the 400Z thread as Nissan is willing to offer power in the 400HP range (I guess).

BRZ will never reach 300hp/300lb-ft in stock form so why bother complaining about power here.

I have more interest in the BRZ (buy or not is another story) to see what this new engine and car can do as far as perceived speed, and the better appearance is a plus.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 07:40 PM   #58
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
You should read the post again. My point was if you want more power keep it in the 400Z thread as Nissan is willing to offer power in the 400HP range (I guess).

BRZ will never reach 300hp/300lb-ft in stock form so why bother complaining about power here.

I have more interest in the BRZ (buy or not is another story) to see what this new engine and car can do as far as perceived speed, and the better appearance is a plus.
Who said this?

Not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Turbo boost is not equivalent to NA bump. That's the entire argument for wanting a tunable turbo engine vs. a meh starting point with meager bumps in output over a couple decades. See Z.
Subaru could have gone with an FA20DIT pumping out 210 hp and 200 tq and made a lot more people happy IMO. Settling for x because the expectation that y won't ever happen so z is justified is a perfectly acceptable opinion for owners to have. There'd just be infinitely more owners if y happened.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 08:18 PM   #59
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Who said this?

Not me.





Subaru could have gone with an FA20DIT pumping out 210 hp and 200 tq and made a lot more people happy IMO. Settling for x because the expectation that y won't ever happen so z is justified is a perfectly acceptable opinion for owners to have. There'd just be infinitely more owners if y happened.
Im not sure a 200/200 DIT BRZ would actually be better than whatever the NA BRZ ends up being - at least stock. Youd get all the crap tuning, weight, and complexity of a Subaru turbo motor yet it would still be underpowered.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 09:22 PM   #60
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
I***8217;m not sure a 200/200 DIT BRZ would actually be better than whatever the NA BRZ ends up being - at least stock. You***8217;d get all the crap tuning, weight, and complexity of a Subaru turbo motor yet it would still be underpowered.
Disagree. I'd rather work with 5k rpms than 3k rpms. And I can't stand the minivan moaning fro another decade.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 09:35 PM   #61
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
** LP640
575M DMC-12

Default

Looks like it needs a turbo.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 10:53 PM   #62
fredzy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317270
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PA
Vehicle:
15 WRX
and a Sienna

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Disagree. I'd rather work with 5k rpms than 3k rpms. And I can't stand the minivan moaning fro another decade.
Hey hey, my minivan sounds quite a lot better than even my WRX, thank you.
fredzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 01:14 AM   #63
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

It needs a Yamaha-tuned Toyota I4 mounted at 30deg to the passenger side (a la old BMWs) and some longer (bespoke) front control arms. That would be super easy to boost and relatively cheap to upgrade the internals for reliability under boost, but also provide an excellent tuner platform.

Subaru's junky engine is just going to be the same old Achilles heel in a new wrapper.

Or hell, just throw a fancy electronic rear diff and some over-active yaw control on it.. that's all the kids really want these days... a drift mode they can use on the street with no talent.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 08:25 AM   #64
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

Ah, CJ. Sounding grumpier each day. Don't ever change, homie. Don't ever change.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 11:15 AM   #65
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

hell, if we're making bespoke engines for this thing, why not a small displacement (something in the 2.4 liter range) i6 with a closed deck, D4S injection, and a 48v mild hybrid?
samagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 04:34 PM   #66
Goempie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 166202
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
hell, if we're making bespoke engines for this thing, why not a small displacement (something in the 2.4 liter range) i6 with a closed deck, D4S injection, and a 48v mild hybrid?
A tuned version of the 1.8 would have been a nice option too
Goempie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 12:43 AM   #67
boxerinside
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191994
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YungBoba View Post
$30K sounds about right (sadly) given that they already start at around $28K right now.

A base MX-5 starts at $26.5K and can get up to mid-30s with options. I haven't driven either car so I can't compare driving dynamics (aka the main and probably only reason you'd buy one of these things) but the new BRZ better be damn good if it's gonna start at that much higher than the MX-5.
you don't want a base Mx-5, you need the club if you want a suspension that doesn't feel like a yaris and it comes with LSD plus other goodies.
boxerinside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2020, 06:27 PM   #68
bugatti0628
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447323
Join Date: May 2016
Default

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...ine-japan/amp/
wait a minute, did someone give away the reveal date by mistake or is it for something else even bigger
"When contacted for this story, a spokesperson said the American arm of the company had "no comment on future product" and that its "next big news will be on November 17." So, watch this space."

Last edited by bugatti0628; 10-26-2020 at 06:36 PM.
bugatti0628 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 09:11 AM   #69
Snow Drift
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:
'19 xvPHEV,Tesla MY
05 08 11 WRX 18 STI 18TM3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugatti0628 View Post
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...ine-japan/amp/
wait a minute, did someone give away the reveal date by mistake or is it for something else even bigger
"When contacted for this story, a spokesperson said the American arm of the company had "no comment on future product" and that its "next big news will be on November 17." So, watch this space."
Makes sense. Nov 17 is just days before the original date of the 2020 LA Autoshow, which is the perfect place for the BRZ reveal.

Subaru_USA instagram said the 2022 reveal would be "this fall."
Snow Drift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 11:39 AM   #70
Stickee
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 530
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: I wonder how long you could ma
Vehicle:
2005 9-2x Aero
FastAr Red

Default

https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/futu...20-teaser.html

Quote:
The all-new 2022 Subaru BRZ - World Premiere coming this Fall.
The all-new 2022 BRZ is coming, and the countdown has already started. Sign up to be one of the first to receive the latest updates on the world premiere on November 18.

Lucky attendees to the 2020 Subiefest World Record Attempt and Charity Drive got a sneak-peek of the 2022 BRZ on October 4, but the official reveal is right around the corner.
Stickee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 12:22 PM   #71
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Hard to tell based on a tiny picture, but it looks good to me. Of course, the old one looks good too, so for me it's going to come down to the weight, interior, and engine.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 12:45 PM   #72
gathermewool
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 143624
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New England
Vehicle:
14 FXTT (hers)
15 Legacy 2.5i Prem (his)

Default

It will likely weigh too much for its engine (according to most here) and have a dated interior, although I thought the interior and instrument cluster was neat when the 1st gen first came out.
gathermewool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 03:14 PM   #73
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

I don't get anyone saying that it has a dated interior. it's a functional interior, offering everything I need very close at hand, and the seats are amazingly snug.
samagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 03:38 PM   #74
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
I don't get anyone saying that it has a dated interior. it's a functional interior, offering everything I need very close at hand, and the seats are amazingly snug.
The interior looks like it was designed two generations ago. Same as the STI. That***8217;s to be expected when your interiors are average at best and you go so long between generations.

Last edited by JP Chestnut; 11-04-2020 at 03:39 PM. Reason: What the hell is wrong with apostrophes on this forum?
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 04:35 PM   #75
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
18 Highlander
Yami XSR

Default

That photo looks great. Combined with those rear quarter shots we've seen previously, it's gonna be a good looking car. Would be nice if they could give it some more power for additional appeal.
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.