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11-19-2008, 12:31 PM | #1 | |
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6 myths about the Detroit 3
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11-19-2008, 12:46 PM | #2 |
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So based on "reality" #1, GM is the stupidest car company.
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11-19-2008, 12:52 PM | #3 |
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They do, however, don't build cars that appeal to a lot of the up and coming generation and a lot of those in their 20's. They're getting better, but not great. Interiors aren't very inspiring and their best efforts lately seem to have been retro styled bits while the more affordable cars tend to be bland in comparison to similar import offerings.
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11-19-2008, 12:54 PM | #4 | |||
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From GM's site, for sales in Oct 2008: GM hybrids continue to build sales momentum and the company has broken through the 10-thousand vehicle sales mark. A total of 1,496 hybrid vehicles were delivered in the month. Hybrid sales included: 372 hybrid Chevrolet Tahoe, 193 GMC Yukon and 230 Cadillac Escalade 2-mode SUVs delivered. There were 325 Chevrolet Malibu, 22 Saturn Aura and 354 Vue hybrids sold in October. GM has sold 10,549 hybrids so far in 2008. Meanwhile, in October alone, Toyota sold 11,804 Priuses. I think that the "Detroit 3's" reliance on model numbers is also misleading. Yes, they have more models in raw numbers.. but all of the models are basically the same thing with different badges. The hybrid Yukon, Tahoe, and Escalade are technically three models, but they're the same car underneath. |
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11-19-2008, 01:02 PM | #5 |
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^^^
Like the Aveo,Now they could of done better than that.Then they slap a rebadge and call it a G3 or something for the Pontiac Division. |
11-19-2008, 01:05 PM | #6 | |
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Hmm. Looks liek a dead heat. And since GM can barely keep afloat and is begging for gov't help, i think that puts toyota very well on par to demolish GM this year. If GM is even around by next year. How about some overall 2007 sales growth? Chrysler Group -3.4% at 2,076,650 (2006: 2,142,505) Ford Motor Co -12.1% at 2,572,599 (2006: 2,918,674) General Motors -6.5% at 3,866,620 (2006: 4,124,645) Honda America 2.5% at 1,551,542 (2006: 1,509,358) Nissan North America 4.5% at 1,068,238 (2006: 1,019,249) Toyota Motor Co. 2.7% at 2,620,825 (2006: 2,542,524) Who's selling more? who's selling less? seems pretty clear cut to me. Wanna claim a domestic is reliable? ask anyone with one. Why did the camry take the #1 selling vehicle car spot away from the Taurus years ago, and hasn't let up since? Aww. Give up domestics, roll over in your grave and go back to sleep. Last edited by neko; 11-19-2008 at 01:12 PM. |
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11-19-2008, 01:12 PM | #7 | |
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11-19-2008, 01:12 PM | #8 |
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The Baby Boomers which seem to be the core Big Three buyers have defected to Camry's and Accords et al, and there's only so many 20- somethings that want a Cobalt or the like.
My wife and I (mid 30's) went to find a replacement for her 04 FXT. Her stipulations were 1) Fun to drive, 2) stick shift, 3) AWD. I did my best to find an American car to test drive, but alas NONE existed with that combination. NONE. We tested Asian, German and Swedish cars. My sig tells the story of which one won the test. So, to recap, non-enthusiast folks around 16-25 don't want domestic cars because the stigma is that they suck. Unless their baby boomer parents are devoted domestic fans, they head to asia or germany for their rides. Some younger enthusiasts accept the few "inexpensive" domestic options like the SRT-4 and the Cobalt SS and Mustang GT because they can afford to buy them and mod them. There's really very few domestic choices available for the enthusiast. Even less for those folks that see snow near their house. People in my "seasoned" age group that want a performance car won't consider the domestics I mentioned because our peer group thinks those cars are for "kids" AND think they suck. Of course I am open-minded, not rich and appreciate that the domestics have at least something to offer. Unfortunately until they bring something that has all the things my wife (and me too!) wants they won't be on my menu of car choices. Ever. I hope the domestics can survive this, but I fear for their future. How does one write GM or Chrysler in chinese? |
11-19-2008, 01:15 PM | #9 |
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How many of those sales were government vehicles? They sell an astronomical amount of vehicles to all branches of the government.
Also, "Initial Quality" means the door didn't fall off your Ford Focus in the first 3 months of owning it. They are still very far behind in the reliability sector over the long term, which is what reliability really is. |
11-19-2008, 01:18 PM | #10 |
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Yup, see how well Chrysler will do after the gov't finally pulls their contracts one day and switches over to toyota or honda. That should be a final bullet to the head if they're not already gone of their own mistakes.
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11-19-2008, 01:24 PM | #11 |
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A big problem with the Big 3 is that the cars they sell are UGLY!
U-G-L-Y You ain't got no alibi! |
11-19-2008, 01:49 PM | #12 |
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Right, it's a guaranteed sale of a gajillion vehicles. Think about EVERY little sector of government. Parks services, public works, police, environmental vehicles, livery and on and on and on in every single town in America. Cars, trucks and vans, oh my! It's mind-boggling.
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11-19-2008, 01:57 PM | #13 | |
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11-19-2008, 01:58 PM | #14 |
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How about a few TRUTHS:
1) The list of "6 myths" demonstrates Americans PERCEPTION of the big 3. They created that perception over YEARS of non-competitive products. These are AMERICAN's perceptions of AMERICAN companies. 2) The RESALE value of US vehicles are HORRIBLE compared to most non-American brands. (Again, perception = POOR RESALE) 3) They bought all the failing or failed automakers they could in the 80-90's. Instead of investing in progress, they wanted to buy established/ failing companies which sucked more money out of them. 4) Ford shut-down its 2000 Blue Project within about 12-18 mos. It was put together to develop fuel-efficient, environmentaly conscientious vehicles. The project was basically supposed to develop the new millenium vehicle. Ford decided that these vehicles didn't have good profit margins. Trucks and SUV's were the way to go to get MOOLAH. 5) How many saw "Who Killed the Electric Car?" GM squashed EV-1 >>> No clear reason ever identified >>> Most believe PROFIT MARGIN again being the issue. Disregard the fact that the EV-1 had the highest customer satisfaction in GM history (See the Toyota Prius today). 6) How about GM and "HUMMER?"? The epitome of GM GREED. |
11-19-2008, 01:58 PM | #15 |
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You forgot a myth; According to the big three it's extremely expensive to build cars/trucks in the US.
But Toyota, honda and some subies (well mine was at least) built (or assembled) in the US. I think the ethics of the big three is what makes it expensive for them. IMO They have a lot of nerve begging for money. You know that their exec's, CFO's and CEO's are still getting mad money. That's their downfall, the whole AIG mentality. Just my opiinion though. FYI, I just couldnt buy a GM anything. Myth or no myth, everyone I know who bought a tahoe, suberban, etc are always in the shop. |
11-19-2008, 02:03 PM | #16 | |
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11-19-2008, 02:06 PM | #17 | |
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I personally believe the Oil companies paid them off to kill it. Again, GM greed wound up burning them in the end. Exxon has no problem making $100 billion + in quarterly profits while the companies that helped get them all that money (GM, Ford, etc) by building non-fuel efficient SUV's goes under. |
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11-19-2008, 02:14 PM | #18 |
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cant believe there were 17 posts before someone mentioned the UAW.
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11-19-2008, 02:18 PM | #19 |
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I think you are off by a generation. From what I see the "greatest" generation are the biggest Detroit flag wavers. Remember who ushered in the age of the Yuppie, they were boomers.
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11-19-2008, 02:25 PM | #20 |
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Like AVOID92x and others said, none of those things matter if long-term reliability and resale value are rock-bottom. Perception is 90% of reality, and even if LTR numbers are up, people still have the impression that they're still terrible. I haven't really seen anything in the Big 3's advertising to tell me any differently. That being said, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the Aura, Enclave, Acadia and Malibu are all American cars that are very appealing to me. It's just tough to pull the trigger in this economy.
-Mike |
11-19-2008, 02:46 PM | #21 | |
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GM did make people but Fuel efficient trucks and SUVs that is what people wanted at the time. Profit margin is that the purpose of selling things anyways. |
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11-19-2008, 04:33 PM | #22 |
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Mark Phelan is an ass, every "article" of his that I have read has been nothing but praise for the domestics and finger waving at anything not American.
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11-19-2008, 04:58 PM | #23 |
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Myth 6
They will get 25 billion of the gov. |
11-19-2008, 06:21 PM | #24 | |
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(incidentally, so does microsoft.) |
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11-19-2008, 06:42 PM | #25 | |
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A brief history... Cobasys obtained the patents on large-format NiMH batteries from the inventor, Ovonics. GM sold control of Cobasys to Chevron. Chevron sued Panasonic for patent violation. Panasonic made large-format NiMH batteries for Toyota. Panasonic believed their chemistry was different enough from Cobasys' but the court battle eventually (apparently, the judgement is sealed) awarded damages to Cobasys and ordered Panasonic to cease and desist production & sales of large-format NiMH batteries. I believe they were allowed to supply some for warranty work, but that's it. It may also be that Toyota was enjoined from producing any electric car using NiMH batteries, we really don't know and Toyota can't say without presumably paying big penalties... So long story short: Toyota suddenly had no batteries they could use. Cobasys wouldn't sell them to Toyota, nor would they license the patents to Panasonic or anyone else. So the technology sits dormant until the patents expire... This is probably part of the reason why Toyota is so shy on a plug-in Prius as well. Don't expect to see one from them until they have confidence in lithium batteries... BTW, most of the surviving RAV4 EV's are still running fine and still have around 100 miles range per charge, a few have sold for big money on Ebay in the past year. |
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