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Old 07-14-2018, 07:00 PM   #26
Dadswrxnc
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There is a fantastic channel called Engineering explained. Here is a sample of one of his videos. Just check out the ones he did about rev matching, manual transmission bad habits and since this is your first turbo car here is one I think you should check out.

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Old 07-16-2018, 12:52 PM   #27
SirBrass
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I've watched a few Engineering Explained videos before. They're quite good, not just for car stuff.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humpthebobcat View Post
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=587096

That thread help me a lot learning from scratch 3 years ago...a great driver once told me the difference in someone who can drive a manual and a great driver is the same as a weekend hack golfer and a professional golfer, I feel this is true.

Best advice I can give is learn to feel when the syncros let the shifter in gear while up shifting and don't over power them...two controversial points I believe are correct is giving a little gas to get going, not just using the clutch, and learning to double clutch downshift (since I was learning from scratch I decided to learn the hard way/right way/better way)
I don't know about the need to double clutch downshift, as that's only beneficial on dog-geared cars. But rev-match downshift absolutely (difference between the two is double clutching requires multiple pumps of the clutch pedal per gear shift change, while rev-matching is done while the clutch is disengaged, so only one down-up motion on the clutch pedal per gear shift change is required).
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:36 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
I don't know about the need to double clutch downshift, as that's only beneficial on dog-geared cars. But rev-match downshift absolutely (difference between the two is double clutching requires multiple pumps of the clutch pedal per gear shift change, while rev-matching is done while the clutch is disengaged, so only one down-up motion on the clutch pedal per gear shift change is required).


Yeah but isnít the point of double clutching to downshift so you donít burn up your clutch reving while it pushed in?
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadswrxnc View Post
Yeah but isnít the point of double clutching to downshift so you donít burn up your clutch reving while it is pushed in?
I would say it is more to lessen wear on synchros for a synchro trans. It saves some gear wear on a dog box.
Rev matching can do similar, but some electronic/DBW systems have rev hang issues stock.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
I would say it is more to lessen wear on synchros for a synchro trans. It saves some gear wear on a dog box.
Rev matching can do similar, but some electronic/DBW systems have rev hang issues stock.
Except you're not really saving them for anything. You're simply doing the thing synchros were designed to do in the first place. They're going to last just fine without double clutching. Rev matching is far simpler and saves excessive wear on the clutch and eliminates driveline shock. Double clutching does the same thing but makes the process more complicated. There's really no benefit unless you lack synchros.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadswrxnc View Post
Yeah but isnít the point of double clutching to downshift so you donít burn up your clutch reving while it pushed in?
Huh?????^^^^^^^^^^

burn up a clutch revving while it's pushed in? When it's disengaged?
So that's a no on that one.

And then drawing some connection between that and double clutching regarding clutch wear?
What.
Double clutching is for Tractors hauling 40 ton trailers that have input shafts so heavy they can't be synchronized!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's it. It has ZERO bearing on a transmission for a dinky little car with synchros. And it sure as heck has nothing to do with clutch wear, it is for NON SYNCHRONIZED transmissions where you either grind into gear or you double clutch.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
Double clutching does the same thing but makes the process more complicated. There's really no benefit unless you lack synchros.
^exactly

Talk about a painful waste of time double clutching in a stinking modern car.
That's like rolling your car downhill every morning and kick starting it by popping it into 1st so you don't have to use your starter motor.
No doubt, it will save your starter and you can rest assured your starter will last for eternity.
but THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:42 PM   #34
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Are you sure? I have pushed my clutch all the way and Reved it to rev match a downshift and smelled burning clutch.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Dadswrxnc View Post
Are you sure? I have pushed my clutch all the way and Reved it to rev match a downshift and smelled burning clutch.
well then you have a problem with your clutch setup.

What exactly do you think is supposed to happen when a clutch is pushed in if not to disengage it?
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:21 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dadswrxnc View Post
Are you sure? I have pushed my clutch all the way and Reved it to rev match a downshift and smelled burning clutch.
Then your technique needs work. Or you're releasing too slowly and the clutch is burning because you haven't let it fully re-engage by the time it is touching the flywheel but the pressure plate hasn't asserted full clamp pressure yet (because you are releasing the clutch too slowly).

The key to all shifting is to do it fast but do it smooth. Do it jerky, drive line shock will jerk you around. Do it slowly (specifically releasing the clutch and balancing the throttle input), and you'll get eau de embrayage brŻlant
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:33 PM   #37
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Double clutching is more precise, for me...just like you know exactly when to let the clutch out up-shifting by when the syncros let the shifter in the gear, when you double clutch, you can feel the shifter drop into gear when the rpm's are at the right spot without looking...rev matching you are just guessing and hoping you're close or watching the tachometer and not the road...also, 41k miles and zero TOB noise...maybe cause I'm just pressing the clutch in and out and not spending time with it held in...for me double clutching up 500-1000 rpm is faster and easier and less upsetting to the car than rev matching up 3500 rpm on big downshifts...
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
Do it slowly (specifically releasing the clutch and balancing the throttle input), and you'll get eau de embrayage brŻlant


I'm tempted to use this line when I'll speak again with a friend of mine
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:28 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humpthebobcat View Post
Double clutching is more precise, for me...just like you know exactly when to let the clutch out up-shifting by when the syncros let the shifter in the gear, when you double clutch, you can feel the shifter drop into gear when the rpm's are at the right spot without looking...rev matching you are just guessing and hoping you're close or watching the tachometer and not the road...also, 41k miles and zero TOB noise...maybe cause I'm just pressing the clutch in and out and not spending time with it held in...for me double clutching up 500-1000 rpm is faster and easier and less upsetting to the car than rev matching up 3500 rpm on big downshifts...
Well, yeah, if you already know how to do it correctly and its most comfortable for you then there's no reason you shouldn't keep doing it.

It's just that for the rest of us, there's just not much point to it compared to simple rev-matching and heel-toe.
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