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Old 02-07-2019, 01:02 PM   #101
neg_matnik
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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
No wagon, no manual AND slower than my 5MT 2002 WRX BY ALMOST TWO SECONDS despite a 50hp bump?!

I understand where the industry is headed and the direction Subaru has decided to take. I can't disagree with their logic, because obviously they're selling a lot of cars, but honestly, WTF... I have not had a new Subaru set my imagination aflutter since about... 2009? (S209 saw a blip in my interest, but production volume and MSRP quickly dampened my excitement...)
There's most likely a 600 to 700 lbs difference between our wagons and that new Legacy. So, I'd say that power-to-weight ratio favors our wagons.
Besides, from a dead stop, the HTCVT can't handle as much torque as a 5M/T or even an old 5EAT. So, IMO, that's mostly why 0-60 is no better than 6.1 secs despite the massive traction advantage of AWD.
In a parallel universe in which Subaru has made the choice of using a modern 7 to 10 speed auto, the Legacy 2.4T reaches 60 in around 5.5 secs .
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:04 PM   #102
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First off, the LGT never looked that hot. Always understated.

B-ly, no point in wishing for the old automatics as they're dead. I prefer the CVT over the 4EAT anyway. I disliked the shifting feel of traditional autos. I find the CVT to be very smooth and quiet. Plus they're more efficient.
The exterior, while modern-looking, is pretty bland by today's standards. The interior looks very nice for a Subaru though. I think they are really stepping up their game in that department; all the trim looks like leather and soft-touch materials with minimal hard plastics.

Not sure how I feel about the CVT over a traditional manual. They did mention that the CVT in the XT is a "high torque CVT", whatever that means. But I am happy that at least they gave it a decent motor with the XT.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:05 PM   #103
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When he said 'touring' I thought wagon, ha. Great car for the family eh?

I'll never understand how people can value the aesthetics of a shelf-shaped rear end more than the utility of a wagon.

Except.. they don't?

Sedan = yay! Sell 40k per year
Wagon, exact same car otherwise = boo! Not available but would probably sell 5k per year if it were
Wagon, exact same but slight lift and cladding etc = TAKE MY MONEY! Sell 180k per year

Just, wtf.

That 3 inch lift is all it took. I remember the days of Legacy Wagon test drives and then all they did was SIT in an Outback and they forgot the Legacy. Just much easier to get into. They don't race their cars; so, they don't need them soo low to the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
WTF is that naming? Touring XT?

They have a Limited XT as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
No wagon, no manual AND slower than my 5MT 2002 WRX BY ALMOST TWO SECONDS despite a 50hp bump?!

I understand where the industry is headed and the direction Subaru has decided to take. I can't disagree with their logic, because obviously they're selling a lot of cars, but honestly, WTF... I have not had a new Subaru set my imagination aflutter since about... 2009? (S209 saw a blip in my interest, but production volume and MSRP quickly dampened my excitement...)

Oh my goodness.......where to begin.........


More room. Bluetooth. Nicer ride. Quieter. More cargo. More tech. Memory seats. POWER seats. Better MPG on REGULAR gas. Yours is a tin can in an accident in comparison. I'd EASILY take this for a 2 second sacrifice. The Legacy is not a WRX/STI. Now, I'll join you if the next WRX is 2 seconds slower than your 2002.



But hey. You want what you want and you get to wait or go elsewhere I guess.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:08 PM   #104
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....Not sure how I feel about the CVT over a traditional manual. They did mention that the CVT in the XT is a "high torque CVT", whatever that means. But I am happy that at least they gave it a decent motor with the XT.
Been absent for a while? The HTCVT has been around since the 2014 FXT was introduced.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #105
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Been absent for a while? The HTCVT has been around since the 2014 FXT was introduced.
I haven't really looked much at their CVTs and their specs. So the "high torque" CVT is just a slightly beefed up version of their regular CVT, made for turbo engines?

From what I know with at least the WRX CVT, it's not really stout enough to handle more power without supporting mods i.e. CVT cooler, etc. Of course, I'd expect there to be significantly less amounts of people trying to mod a Legacy for power than a WRX, but still.

Waiting for the day they give us a robust CVT that can handle added power, since it seems they are hell-bent on continuing with CVTs over traditional ATs. I know the WRX S4 is CVT only and comes with 300hp (give or take) from the factory; I'd have to imagine that that one is a little beefier than the ones we get here.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:34 PM   #106
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More room. Bluetooth. Nicer ride. Quieter. More cargo. More tech. Memory seats. POWER seats. Better MPG on REGULAR gas. Yours is a tin can in an accident in comparison. I'd EASILY take this for a 2 second sacrifice. The Legacy is not a WRX/STI. Now, I'll join you if the next WRX is 2 seconds slower than your 2002.
I know Subaru isn't trying to sell me a car, they're trying to sell cars to my family/friends/neighbors. The Ascent and BRZ (and S209) are the only Subarus that I would currently consider owning, and the Ascent only makes the cut because it would be the wife's car.

I'll always be a fan of Subaru and their heritage, but I'm really hoping they don't fumble on the next STI. If they hit the MT/5-door/fast-as-current-RS bullseye, they can have my money. If not, a used BRZ Performance Pack could very well be the last Subaru I ever add to the fleet, sad as that is.

If anyone remembers Subaru of the 90's, I think we're in the midst of another 10-year-plus performance drought.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:43 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I'd EASILY take this for a 2 second sacrifice. The Legacy is not a WRX/STI. Now, I'll join you if the next WRX is 2 seconds slower than your 2002.
But hey. You want what you want and you get to wait or go elsewhere I guess.
But it's not. Stock for Stock, the Legacy XT is about a half second slower than a bugeye (5.6ish with a tranny busting launch in the bugeye) vs 6.1 in the Legacy that's ~700lbs heavier than the bugeye to boot. Not quite sure where "2 seconds" comes from, unless modded.

Will be more interesting to see 5-60 or 30-60 numbers.

--kC
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:05 PM   #108
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That 3 inch lift is all it took. I remember the days of Legacy Wagon test drives and then all they did was SIT in an Outback and they forgot the Legacy. Just much easier to get into. They don't race their cars; so, they don't need them soo low to the ground.

They have a Limited XT as well.
But where’s the GT? Why XT?

As far as the people not racing their cars so they bought an Outback instead, FOR MORE MONEY BTW, who are all these people racing this Legacy sedan? It’s not raised 3 inches. Mini vans are not raised 3 inches for a logical reason of loading and unloading. That’s why they sell well enough. Why is Subaru still offering the Impreza 5 door if people NEED a Crosstrek? This is what you are saying. What makes the Legacy such a bastard and not the Impreza? I think this would be a perfect time to offer a Levorg btw.

I don’t need extra ground clearance but I do like the extra usable space while still handling like a car and not looking like a yuppy idiot in a wonky CUV. I’ll look like a yuppy idiot in my proper attractive GT wagon, thankyouverymuch.

Last edited by 4S-TURBO; 02-07-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:10 PM   #109
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I haven't really looked much at their CVTs and their specs. So the "high torque" CVT is just a slightly beefed up version of their regular CVT, made for turbo engines?

From what I know with at least the WRX CVT, it's not really stout enough to handle more power without supporting mods i.e. CVT cooler, etc. Of course, I'd expect there to be significantly less amounts of people trying to mod a Legacy for power than a WRX, but still.

Waiting for the day they give us a robust CVT that can handle added power, since it seems they are hell-bent on continuing with CVTs over traditional ATs. I know the WRX S4 is CVT only and comes with 300hp (give or take) from the factory; I'd have to imagine that that one is a little beefier than the ones we get here.

They are getting there. I think the next big step in the CVT will come with the next WRX(and even STI IMHO). Just a matter of time.


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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
I know Subaru isn't trying to sell me a car, they're trying to sell cars to my family/friends/neighbors. The Ascent and BRZ (and S209) are the only Subarus that I would currently consider owning, and the Ascent only makes the cut because it would be the wife's car.

I'll always be a fan of Subaru and their heritage, but I'm really hoping they don't fumble on the next STI. If they hit the MT/5-door/fast-as-current-RS bullseye, they can have my money. If not, a used BRZ Performance Pack could very well be the last Subaru I ever add to the fleet, sad as that is.

If anyone remembers Subaru of the 90's, I think we're in the midst of another 10-year-plus performance drought.

I hear ya; but, don't agree with your last sentence.


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Originally Posted by KC View Post
But it's not. Stock for Stock, the Legacy XT is about a half second slower than a bugeye (5.6ish with a tranny busting launch in the bugeye) vs 6.1 in the Legacy that's ~700lbs heavier than the bugeye to boot. Not quite sure where "2 seconds" comes from, unless modded.

Will be more interesting to see 5-60 or 30-60 numbers.

--kC

Yeah. Was just in reference to his comment. Minus only a "refreshed" look(that I do like), I can't really say anything negative about this Legacy yet. "Bland" is one of those subjective things and I happen to think this is the best looking Legacy yet. That's not saying it's better looking than it's competitors. I think the Accord is just OK and do really like the Camry's look.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:27 PM   #110
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It was a pleasant surprise to see the XT moniker back on an unlikely model. Gives me hope that the Forester will be XTed again soon and that there's possibility of the application elsewhere in the lineup. I'd totally go for a XVXT.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:48 PM   #111
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^In regards to the CVT, I hope so. I suppose they would not want to have a traditional AT in the performance-oriented trims in order to save costs, although one can dream. Do any other brands use CVTs in their performance trim cars?

Bland is a relative term. I think we've just gotten to the point where even "boring" cars look really cool. The Camry is a good example and I think the new Civics have pretty aggressive and sporty styling for what they are. The new Legacy is definitely a good looking car but then again, so are most econoboxes nowadays.

You know what it DOES remind me a little bit of? The Chevy SS.


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Old 02-07-2019, 02:55 PM   #112
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You know what it DOES remind me a little bit of? The Chevy SS.
And that might mean something, if it moved like an SS...
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:04 PM   #113
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Not having CVT ruined the SS.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:18 PM   #114
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Not having CVT ruined the SS.


--kC
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:18 PM   #115
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2.4 liter turbo, YAY! 0-60 6.1 sec... too slow, not interested.
V6 Camry is at 5.8s
2.0T Accord is at 5.7s

That's with journalists DUMPING the gas pedal. Every day you probably get 6s acceleration which is way more than enough for me.

I already thought the H6 was pretty fast, now it's 1s faster? Sign me up!
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:01 PM   #116
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Now, what I need to know is whether or not there's a viscous LSD in the rear.
You already know the answer...
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:11 PM   #117
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I'll wait to trade my '15 Legacy 2.5i until they ditch the stupid XT and give us a proper 2.5i Sport, with something wild, like orange highlights and stitching!

/pipe dream

J/K, can't wait to buy the first refresh, 3-years-used!

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Not having CVT ruined the SS.


...Agreed
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:20 PM   #118
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You know what it DOES remind me a little bit of? The Chevy SS.
Cover up the badge and just about nobody would be able to tell what it is, same as almost every other mid-sized sedan on the market.
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:29 PM   #119
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Cover up the badge and just about nobody would be able to tell what it is, same as almost every other mid-sized sedan on the market.
I would! I'd say it looks awfully similar to my '15 Leggy....
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:33 PM   #120
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I'm probably the only person who loves the current Legacy/Outback design. Still a head-turner for me. This 2020 is even better. *shrug*

My least favorite is still 2010-2014. Yuck.
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:40 PM   #121
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But it's not. Stock for Stock, the Legacy XT is about a half second slower than a bugeye (5.6ish with a tranny busting launch in the bugeye) vs 6.1 in the Legacy that's ~700lbs heavier than the bugeye to boot. Not quite sure where "2 seconds" comes from, unless modded.

Will be more interesting to see 5-60 or 30-60 numbers.

--kC
I doubt its 700# difference in weight difference unless the old bugeyes weight less than 3000#.
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:44 PM   #122
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~3100->~3800 = ~700
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:52 PM   #123
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:15 PM   #124
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But where’s the GT? Why XT?

As far as the people not racing their cars so they bought an Outback instead, FOR MORE MONEY BTW, who are all these people racing this Legacy sedan? It’s not raised 3 inches. Mini vans are not raised 3 inches for a logical reason of loading and unloading. That’s why they sell well enough. Why is Subaru still offering the Impreza 5 door if people NEED a Crosstrek? This is what you are saying. What makes the Legacy such a bastard and not the Impreza? I think this would be a perfect time to offer a Levorg btw.

I don’t need extra ground clearance but I do like the extra usable space while still handling like a car and not looking like a yuppy idiot in a wonky CUV. I’ll look like a yuppy idiot in my proper attractive GT wagon, thankyouverymuch.

When did I mention Impreza or Crosstrek? I was talking about Legacy Wagon and Outback. Those are other models that have their own statistics. Crosstrek was surpassing Impreza 4 AND 5 door sales combined before it's 2nd full year of sales. Kinda like the Outback did. % wise, I don't know the numbers that make keeping the Impreza viable with the Crosstrek around. All I remember is the Legacy Wagons rotting on the lot. For us, Impreza sales stagnate, then fly off the lots(not in big numbers. We'll just run out). It's a bit weird.

I asked about "XT" versus "GT". There wasn't an answer available yet. Maybe we'll get one as it comes to sale and we get training. I guess it doesn't really matter what it's called. Will just take some time to get used to.

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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I'm probably the only person who loves the current Legacy/Outback design. Still a head-turner for me. This 2020 is even better. *shrug*

My least favorite is still 2010-2014. Yuck.

I liked the 2013 refresh. This new one is nice; though, now that I am seeing more in different angles, I hate to say that rear end may have me mistaking it for a 2 gen ago Camry. Still nice looking though. I was really enjoying it when it was driven out for the reveal.

Last edited by JustyWRC; 02-07-2019 at 06:24 PM. Reason: forgot a word
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:36 PM   #125
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You already know the answer...
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