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Old 09-04-2020, 10:15 AM   #151
RacecarWRX
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Ok with the grille done, its time to move onto the next phase of front end modifications to maximize air flow. Next up, ducting the bumper to the radiator.

I've purchased several 1/16 sheets of ABS plastic, and the idea is to create shrouding that will duct the bumper to the radiator and keep air flowing through it, vs around it. I did a few practice bend yesterday, and the ABS may prove to be a challenge for larger items, but I think much of this revolves around my inexperience with handling it. I'll reserve full judgement on whether or not it was the right material choice for when I'm done.

Here is the initial investigation around the radiator, and its not looking good. First there are massive holes around the radiator and ac condenser. Big enough that I would guess a lot of air is probably flowing around the radiator vs through the radiator. Makes me think that most of the air flowing over the radiator is being pull by the fan and not really being forced through it when coolant temps hit 212F.

Here are some photos of the gaps:








As you can see, they are pretty bad. Considering air is going to take the path of least resistance, these are so pretty big holes here.

I decided I'd cut my teeth on the passenger side of the radiator. After taking a few measurements, and a bit of trial and error, I produce the first piece out of cardboard. A good start.








I've got plenty of ideas and things to consider as the project moves forward, but instead of typing it all out, I'll just save you all from the trouble of watching me struggle through this project and only post when I've incrementally made successful designs.
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Old 09-10-2020, 03:53 PM   #152
tooler
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I registered just to say I'm amazed you're able to heel toe with the stock pedal configuration. I'm not even sure I can rotate my foot like that with the transmission tunnel in the way.

I use the left side / right side technique instead, with my heel firmly planted. I added an extended SRP throttle pedal cover to a spare throttle pedal assembly from eBay in order to decrease the distance between brake and throttle pedals. That helped, but there was still so much brake pedal travel under hard track braking that I couldn't keep enough of my foot on the brake to be confident in a high speed braking zone.

I just added a master cylinder brace and that was definitely what I was missing. To be honest, I thought for sure it was a useless part that people convinced themselves was worth it after spending a hundred dollars on a piece of metal. And yes, they don't really do anything on the street. But they definitely help on the track -- at my last event, I was finally heel-toeing with ease. Happy to be wrong about that one.

It does make me wonder: if I had started with the brace and/or switched to AP brakes, would I still need the pedal cover? I don't care to experiment because I really need track conditions to be sure, and I don't want to waste a session on it.

Anyway, I plan to do only a fraction of your mods (still debating the 17" AP kit) but keep up the good work here. You're a nerd of the best kind!
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Old 09-10-2020, 04:31 PM   #153
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Very Impressive. I campaigned a 2016 WRX Nationally in Autocross. so I can appreciate your build as it was very similar to my own Suspension wise.. I noticed you didn't mention anything about sway bars??? interesting.. as I ran without a rear for a while. but I was getting a midcorner Push on exit. fixed that with a Mann Engineering BRZ Rear adj bar.. PERFECT. I had similar spring rates to yours and was running Ohlins Road and Tracks.. MCS's are great. Following
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:02 AM   #154
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I registered just to say I'm amazed you're able to heel toe with the stock pedal configuration. I'm not even sure I can rotate my foot like that with the transmission tunnel in the way.

I use the left side / right side technique instead, with my heel firmly planted. I added an extended SRP throttle pedal cover to a spare throttle pedal assembly from eBay in order to decrease the distance between brake and throttle pedals. That helped, but there was still so much brake pedal travel under hard track braking that I couldn't keep enough of my foot on the brake to be confident in a high speed braking zone.

I just added a master cylinder brace and that was definitely what I was missing. To be honest, I thought for sure it was a useless part that people convinced themselves was worth it after spending a hundred dollars on a piece of metal. And yes, they don't really do anything on the street. But they definitely help on the track -- at my last event, I was finally heel-toeing with ease. Happy to be wrong about that one.

It does make me wonder: if I had started with the brace and/or switched to AP brakes, would I still need the pedal cover? I don't care to experiment because I really need track conditions to be sure, and I don't want to waste a session on it.

Anyway, I plan to do only a fraction of your mods (still debating the 17" AP kit) but keep up the good work here. You're a nerd of the best kind!
Heel toe in this car is rough. It's a lot more like a side step motion, just as you mentioned. Once you get enough practice, it seems to be more about controlling the clutch when you accidentally over or under rev. I also hear you about the braking travel, this was happening with my smaller BBK kit as it was undersized for the tires and power of the car. If you peep back at a lot of my track videos from last year, I'm DEEP into the brakes and there are huge dips, as I try to heel toe into a lower gear. I'd say 50/50 too deep in the brakes, and a function of poor technique.

I will say if you only get from calipers, there still is some pedal feel left to be desired. You'll also want fix calipers on the rear too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Very Impressive. I campaigned a 2016 WRX Nationally in Autocross. so I can appreciate your build as it was very similar to my own Suspension wise.. I noticed you didn't mention anything about sway bars??? interesting.. as I ran without a rear for a while. but I was getting a midcorner Push on exit. fixed that with a Mann Engineering BRZ Rear adj bar.. PERFECT. I had similar spring rates to yours and was running Ohlins Road and Tracks.. MCS's are great. Following
Ohhh autoxed a boosted car. From the few times I got the WRX on a cone course, it was always a riot in the least controlled way. Lag lag lag, power, slam on the brakes for the corner. Never tried the whole left foot brake thing.

The car as it sits its on stock bars, with custom drop links to remove any preload. I'm trying the whole keep the stock bar, up the spring rate idea. And all the aftermarket options for droplinks/endlinks are terrible, and it from everything I've seen you just preload the sway bar anyway which defeats its purpose. I will say my car is pretty good entry, mid, with a small push on exit. The push is very very manageable, and I don't have enough power to make the understeer excessively wild. Chalk this up to relatively lower power, sticky tires, and open front diff vs the lsd on the STi which will lock under power.

Sway bars are a big plus for autox, especially when it comes to points, class, and avoiding coilovers. It's a very very cost effective, in both points and actual dollars, way to to reduce roll, and increase effective spring rate. As a result, I have this "working" theory that "get a sway bar" or "i got a sway bar and its loads better", is almost like an old wives tale. Most people think ahh, my car rotates better and now its faster, vs ahh my car rotates better but did I just decrease the total rear end grip to achieve that?



In any case, glad to see others who share the same interesting in how I tinker with cars. Seems like there are fewer and fewer of us these days.

Last edited by RacecarWRX; 09-15-2020 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:32 AM   #155
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Ok couple of quick updates here. The radiator shroud or ducting is done. I didn't record the process, and actually didn't take very many photos. The entire thing is relatively boring and tedious, and trust me I hope I never have to do it again. Hell I hope it freaking works!

Here what I learned, in no practical order.
1. Use cardboard to prototype pieces.

2. From the factory, there are a crap load of holes for the air to escape around the radiator. They try to use foam, but it eventually gets pushed out of the way.

3. The hood latch support bar is not removable! Although there are bolts on the top and the bottom of the support, it seems to be stamped or tacked onto the radiator support. With the hood latch support unbolted, the radiator support is VERY flimsy. Makes me wish subaru took a more BMW approach, two bars supporting the radiator support vs one super unaerodynamic hood latch support.

4. Its really obvious after starring at the front of this car for hours, then starring at a bunch of other cars parked around the neighborhood that Subaru put very little effort into making sure air gets to the radiator. The pieces all around the radiator are not designed to promote airflow to the radiator, and the measures taken to seal everything are relatively poor. Seriously go look at the front of a new bmw or benz, you can tell a lot of care has been taken to ensure the air is flowing into the radiator.

5. In the custom grille I made, I cut the lower portion of the grille off. This may have been a mistake. The crash beam is right behind this, which I leads me to believe this is why the grille was not open here. I had to make a curved surface that attached onto the crash beam here, and I don't think it will be very effective, so I suggest you leave this area of the grille alone if you are doing something similar.

6. I understand why the 2018 bumper was redesigned! Part of it is because of the above (#5), the crash beam, and grille. The grille on the 2018 bumper doesn't extend down as far, and as a result only open to above the crash beam. Also in this entire process I learned that a rule of thumb is to have a duct opening of 1/3 to 1/2 the surface area of the radiator. As a result, I suspect that subaru is trying to take in air from the bottom of the bumper, and reduce air coming in through the top grille. I think the stock 2018 grille is even more closed than the 15-17 grilles.

7. The AC condenser lines are a challenge to duct around. Ideally you should eliminate the AC, and also cut the bumper supports. The bumper supports have a very odd shape, which is difficult to duct around. In the future, the goal would be to remove or cut anything in the way, so I can create a duct that is completely square against the radiator.

8. The crash beam is totally in the way. If you want to follow the 1/3 to 1/2 duct opening to radiator rule then you have to ax the crash beam. Otherwise the space between the radiator to the crash beam is too tight, and fitting a duct would be very difficult. Duct like this: : https://pitstopusa.com/i-7820151-fiv...ategory:132046

9. Use lots of foam tape, and metal duct tape to help seal off gaps and hard edges.

10. Because of the crash beam, the ducting running up and down on either side of the radiator are made of two pieces. As a result, the bottoms seem to be a bit more flimsy and may bow out if enough pressure builds up infront of the radiator. I hope pressure isn't building up in front of the radiator though, that would be a terrible thing. I think a little l bracket, and some hole into the crash bar would help reinforce these piece, but I never got around to it.

11. There are tons of pre drilled holes in the crash beam, so using a rivnut you can get very creative on how to mounting things.

I think that's it. Given its cooling down, I doubt I'll get a chance to truly test the effectiveness of the ducting. Hopefully it doesn't cause any cooling issues. Next up will be a event at Sonoma raceway in early October. We'll see how the ducting holds up.;
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:04 AM   #156
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I also hear you about the braking travel, this was happening with my smaller BBK kit as it was undersized for the tires and power of the car. If you peep back at a lot of my track videos from last year, I'm DEEP into the brakes and there are huge dips, as I try to heel toe into a lower gear. I'd say 50/50 too deep in the brakes, and a function of poor technique.

I will say if you only get from calipers, there still is some pedal feel left to be desired. You'll also want fix calipers on the rear too.
Would you say the AP Racing CP8350 kit made pedal travel worse than stock? The piston area appears to be smaller than stock, so I'd think that would reduce travel. I'm actually satisfied with it now -- or at least I think I am. I'm half expecting the pedal travel to be terrible again at my next event. After all the struggle, I don't trust that it's fixed!

Honestly the real reason I want that kit is because I'm lazy and drop-in brake pads seem like magic. I'm swapping all 4 pads and rotors now. It's not difficult and it only takes 2 hours, but part of me would love to cut that down to almost nothing.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:36 AM   #157
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Would you say the AP Racing CP8350 kit made pedal travel worse than stock? The piston area appears to be smaller than stock, so I'd think that would reduce travel. I'm actually satisfied with it now -- or at least I think I am. I'm half expecting the pedal travel to be terrible again at my next event. After all the struggle, I don't trust that it's fixed!

Honestly the real reason I want that kit is because I'm lazy and drop-in brake pads seem like magic. I'm swapping all 4 pads and rotors now. It's not difficult and it only takes 2 hours, but part of me would love to cut that down to almost nothing.
Honestly, that kit went on pretty quickly after I got the car. I can't remember what the stock pedal feels like anymore. What was wrong with your brakes? Also why do you keep swapping rotors too?

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Old 09-17-2020, 10:36 AM   #158
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Discussing fuel starvation on the car, and the plan to address it moving forward.
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:44 PM   #159
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Default Love the build

Iíve the build man! I ish I could take my wrx to the track
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:52 PM   #160
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What was wrong with your brakes?
Excessive pedal travel until I put a master cylinder brace on there.
Quote:
Also why do you keep swapping rotors too?
I figured I'd keep them separate so I could tear up the track rotors and to avoid having incompatible pad compounds mixed on there. It's not clear which brands will let me swap pad compounds on the same rotor. I know I can clean the street compound off by driving around with race pads, but it always sounded fussy to me.

If I got the AP kit, I wouldn't bother swapping rotors of course.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:34 AM   #161
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Excessive pedal travel until I put a master cylinder brace on there.

I figured I'd keep them separate so I could tear up the track rotors and to avoid having incompatible pad compounds mixed on there. It's not clear which brands will let me swap pad compounds on the same rotor. I know I can clean the street compound off by driving around with race pads, but it always sounded fussy to me.

If I got the AP kit, I wouldn't bother swapping rotors of course.

Ahh got it. I'm not sure how far you are driving to and from the the track, but on the more aggressive pads, I completely scrub off any transfer layer by the time I get home. Its usually like a 2-2.5 hour drive, and when I finally hit traffic about an hour or so away from home, the first brake application is a screeeeeeetching howl. Same applies to the drive to the track. I literally can't keep a transfer layer on it because it just scrubs it off. I'm sure it won't matter when you switch to a bbk in the future.
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:11 PM   #162
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Ahh got it. I'm not sure how far you are driving to and from the the track, but on the more aggressive pads, I completely scrub off any transfer layer by the time I get home. Its usually like a 2-2.5 hour drive, and when I finally hit traffic about an hour or so away from home, the first brake application is a screeeeeeetching howl. Same applies to the drive to the track. I literally can't keep a transfer layer on it because it just scrubs it off. I'm sure it won't matter when you switch to a bbk in the future.
What street/track pad combinations have you had good luck swapping between?

Also dumb question, but do you know the name of your windshield phone mount? I'm looking for a low profile one that doesn't get in the way of my vision too much.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:50 AM   #163
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What street/track pad combinations have you had good luck swapping between?

Also dumb question, but do you know the name of your windshield phone mount? I'm looking for a low profile one that doesn't get in the way of my vision too much.
Previously, I just stock with Gloc pads. I know their pads are compatible across the board. However with the new BBK, I got a set of pads included with the purchase. Now I'm using Ferodo 3.12s up front and Raybesto ST45s in the rear. Then I use Hawk HPS? or HP 5.0? I forget as drive around town pads.

I'm not super worried because the 3.12 and ST45s are pretty freaking aggressive pads. They will chew off anything that the Hawk pads lay down on the rotor.

I would say if you are truly concerned, you can try contacting the brake pad manufacturer, or just stick to known combinations like only using Gloc GS1 (daily pads) with whatever track pad you want.

Note: Gloc and Carbotech are nearly identical formulations. Apparently the guy who was the "brains" behind the Carbotech operation, left and started Gloc.

As for the phone mount, I had some random one from Amazon. But in the heat the sticky part of the suction cup would just melt. Now I use a RAM mount. Its pretty good except due to the design of the mount, it is free to rotate a few degrees in either direction. I have it pushed up close to the dash hump and center gauge hump so that the phone doesn't really rotate in the car on track.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:26 PM   #164
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Did you ever have trouble bedding the G-loc pads? They have a very strange bedding process listed on their website.

With the Carbotechs, I just drove around deserted roads and did 6-7 stops from 60-15 mph, let the pads cool 5-10 minutes driving around, then did it again. They always seemed fine. Trailbraking seemed natural with them.

Maybe I did it wrong. (Or maybe that's why I only get 2 track days out of XP12 front pads!)
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:13 AM   #165
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Did you ever have trouble bedding the G-loc pads? They have a very strange bedding process listed on their website.

With the Carbotechs, I just drove around deserted roads and did 6-7 stops from 60-15 mph, let the pads cool 5-10 minutes driving around, then did it again. They always seemed fine. Trailbraking seemed natural with them.

Maybe I did it wrong. (Or maybe that's why I only get 2 track days out of XP12 front pads!)
Open area is hard to find for me and the more aggressive pads are difficult to get a lot of heat into. There is a nice spot 10 mins away, but sometimes its full of people enjoying the view of San Francisco. If I manage to get the spot to myself, I'll do as many runs back and forth, as needed, until the pads fade. First the sniff test, then the fade test. Once I get some good fade, say on 3 of the brake applications. I park the car and wait 30 mins. Don't over do it when the pad is fading, otherwise you might glaze them over.

For me bedding is not so much about laying down a transfer layer, because that layer is gone by the time I get to the track. Its very much more about getting the pads up to temperature so I bake off anything that was in/on the pad from the manufacturing process.

I had a very very tough time with the Ferodo 3.12s, coupled with the new rotors and calipers. Luckily, after checking, those pads comes prebaked from the factory to gas off the pad.

Can you tell me more about your car setup? I think on our heavy cars, XP12s should last 3-4 events, depending on the track and the tires you are using. The stickier the tire, the more you can take advantage of the pad before locking up the wheel. Additionally, you might just be over heating the pad completely, which is a possibility with smaller rotors.

I was using Glocs R20? (one of their highest temp pads), and I would eat half the pad within a day at Laguna. This was with the CP8350 AP BBK. I think this was more about over heating the pads than it was the setup of the car.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:58 PM   #166
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The car is stock. I'm using dba blank rotors on RS4 tires. My last track event was in the evening and the corner workers said my rotors were glowing red. I've installed the Verus brake duct kit -- I saw your thread and thought that was way too much work for me! We'll see if it helps with pad wear.

I have a 2-day Sebring event up next. If I can make it through that with still more than half the pad left, I'll be thrilled.

I may eventually end up with the basic AP Racing kit. I want to do some more experiments first with the stock system and brake ducts. (I also need to do a 5-lug conversion and Cobra brakes on my 92 Mustang, so I'd rather avoid the $2600 up front right now!)
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:47 AM   #167
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The car is stock. I'm using dba blank rotors on RS4 tires. My last track event was in the evening and the corner workers said my rotors were glowing red. I've installed the Verus brake duct kit -- I saw your thread and thought that was way too much work for me! We'll see if it helps with pad wear.

I have a 2-day Sebring event up next. If I can make it through that with still more than half the pad left, I'll be thrilled.

I may eventually end up with the basic AP Racing kit. I want to do some more experiments first with the stock system and brake ducts. (I also need to do a 5-lug conversion and Cobra brakes on my 92 Mustang, so I'd rather avoid the $2600 up front right now!)
Yeaaa baby! Doing it right! Well at least you got stock calipers, an autozone, orileys, kragen etc etc is probably just a quick drive away from sebring. Worst case, you just buy 1 set per session and then go back to claim they didn't work before the next one. I think they have a limited lifetime warranty

Well, keep an eye out for the kit used. I sold mine dirt cheap with spare rotors and tons of pads. I've seen one other kit come up in the 1300 range. Might be worth picking it up used, then sending it to Essex for some preventative maintenance.

Let me know how Sebring goes!
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:46 PM   #168
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Hit the track again and here are some videos.

Back to back PB laps:

Playlist for the day: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...SjRCwO65pgNIIs

Radiator ducting worked out really well, as in nothing fell off the car. LOL. The weather was cool, so I didn't see it challenging the radiator at all. It did hold temps in the low 190s so perhaps this is a sign that when temps reach over 100F the coolant temps will stay down.

Given my experience with the HPDE 3 traffic, I opted to leave the brake duct closed this time around hoping it would help warm up the pads. The combination of this and being in HPDE4 worked out well.

Overall the car is doing really well, and I think there is at least a second maybe two seconds more as it sits. There are plenty of errors in my PBs laps so I suspect with some more adjusting to the new brakes and refining my working knowledge of Sonoma I can knock off more time.

This might have been the last event for this car this year. It was suppose to go back to the shop for fueling mods on Monday, this has been pushed back two weeks which might mean the car won't be back in my possession till December.

I'll post back when the car returns from the shop with the new fueling system.
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:34 PM   #169
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Always in for a good track chronicle! Subscribed!
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:52 AM   #170
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Always in for a good track chronicle! Subscribed!
Thanks!!
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Old 11-01-2020, 11:23 PM   #171
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Let me know how Sebring goes!
It was a great time! That was my first NASA event and I liked the family/racing atmosphere. I only had a few clear flying laps but I ended up with a 2:51. That's pretty slow, but I'm happy with it, and a 2:49 should be no problem next time. I passed a newer STI a couple times so I should probably stop beating up on the HPDE1 folks.

I put some Genesis temperature paint on my rotor and it maxed out the chart (over 800C). I guess the brake ducts didn't work miracles. Maybe it's time for that AP kit...

My biggest concern is I developed a pretty bad clunk from the right front when I hit the brakes sometimes. The lug nuts are torqued down, although maybe I stripped one again. Or maybe I broke something by driving over the curbs. It could be anything I guess.

Ever run into anything like that? I'll be tearing into it tomorrow.
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Old 11-03-2020, 11:37 AM   #172
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It was a great time! That was my first NASA event and I liked the family/racing atmosphere. I only had a few clear flying laps but I ended up with a 2:51. That's pretty slow, but I'm happy with it, and a 2:49 should be no problem next time. I passed a newer STI a couple times so I should probably stop beating up on the HPDE1 folks.

I put some Genesis temperature paint on my rotor and it maxed out the chart (over 800C). I guess the brake ducts didn't work miracles. Maybe it's time for that AP kit...

My biggest concern is I developed a pretty bad clunk from the right front when I hit the brakes sometimes. The lug nuts are torqued down, although maybe I stripped one again. Or maybe I broke something by driving over the curbs. It could be anything I guess.

Ever run into anything like that? I'll be tearing into it tomorrow.
Clunk under braking? I'm not going to lie my brakes can be really clunky because the pads are loose in the caliper. Honestly it could be all sorts of things. Might be the rotor moving on the stud, or pads moving in the caliper.

Or a balljoint, or bushing. It really could be anything. Inspection is probably your only way to determine what might be causing the sound.
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Old 11-03-2020, 07:12 PM   #173
tooler
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Originally Posted by RacecarWRX View Post
I'm not going to lie my brakes can be really clunky because the pads are loose in the caliper.
It was the Carbotech XP12 pads on the stock floating calipers. I swapped back to the stock pads with the backing plates and there's no more noise. It's very strange because this is my third set and probably the 7th or 8th time I've had this kind installed, and I've never heard a thing from them.

I did have 1.5mm of pad taper on the inner pads, and the outer pad material happened to be a little misaligned on the backing plate, so maybe it was catching in a weird way.

Anyway, glad it's sorted. Perhaps one day someone will find this discussion in Google.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:52 PM   #174
RacecarWRX
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2015 WRX

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Wow its been awhile. I've got two videos here:

1. Extended wheel stud install for the rear of the car:


2. A quick update covering the battery relocation and the fuel surge tank that have been added:
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