Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday December 16, 2017
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Miscellaneous > Off-Topic

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2010, 10:07 AM   #1
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default OT Photographers - Indoor Pics : Moving Subject

I'm working with a nikon d5000 and I'm wondering if it's possible to take good pictures of a moving subject indoors without an upgraded flash.

I set my aperture to as big as possible
I set the exposure to the lowest possible that will get enough light for a clear picture.

Still objects come out great. Moving wife does not. Are there any tricks to getting a good pic of a moving subject indoors?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Bad Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-04-2010, 10:11 AM   #2
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

If you are trying to give the effect of motion, then panning with a slightly lower shutter speed might get it done. What lens are you using? Aperture?

Sounds like you need a flash. Only other option is to get a lens that opens up to 1.8, or 1.4 which will allow your shutter speed to be fast enough to freeze it.

What exactly are you trying to take pictures of?
Neek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:11 AM   #3
maxQ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2446
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: limbo
Vehicle:
'11 Alfa Cloverleaf
grise

Default

Spend money.
maxQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:19 AM   #4
SCMedic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 148369
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2011 STi Sedan
www.gregfmoore.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
I'm working with a nikon d5000 and I'm wondering if it's possible to take good pictures of a moving subject indoors without an upgraded flash.

I set my aperture to as big as possible
I set the exposure to the lowest possible that will get enough light for a clear picture.

Still objects come out great. Moving wife does not. Are there any tricks to getting a good pic of a moving subject indoors?

Fast primes are great for this. Otherwise, get an external flash, and bounce it off stuff. Aim at at the ceiling, opposite walls, etc. Use a diffuser as well to keep the light natural and not harsh.
SCMedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:20 AM   #5
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

More details on the setup:

Nikon d5000 with 18mm-55mm lens and all compensations/corrections turned off. i have it zoomed out so 18mm focal length for now.

For this image, I have the camera set at f5.6 and 1/2 exposure

At these settings, the background comes out clear and bright, but obviously anything moving comes out blurred.

I'm trying to get the same thing but with a much shorter exposure so I can shoot moving subjects.
Bad Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #6
SCMedic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 148369
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2011 STi Sedan
www.gregfmoore.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
More details on the setup:

Nikon d5000 with 18mm-55mm lens and all compensations/corrections turned off. i have it zoomed out so 18mm focal length for now.

For this image, I have the camera set at f5.6 and 1/2 exposure

At these settings, the background comes out clear and bright, but obviously anything moving comes out blurred.

I'm trying to get the same thing but with a much shorter exposure so I can shoot moving subjects.

You'll have close to NO luck shooting a moving subject indoors at 5.6 without a flash.

I can shoot kids inside, during the day, at F2.8 with my 5DII, but 5.6 would be a stretch even at higher ISO's to compensate for the faster shutter speeds.
SCMedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #7
maxQ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2446
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: limbo
Vehicle:
'11 Alfa Cloverleaf
grise

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
More details on the setup:

Nikon d5000 with 18mm-55mm lens and all compensations/corrections turned off. i have it zoomed out so 18mm focal length for now.

For this image, I have the camera set at f5.6 and 1/2 exposure

At these settings, the background comes out clear and bright, but obviously anything moving comes out blurred.

I'm trying to get the same thing but with a much shorter exposure so I can shoot moving subjects.

what do you mean by 1/2 exposure? 1/2 second shutter? 'cause that's incredibly slow.
maxQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:25 AM   #8
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxQ View Post
what do you mean by 1/2 exposure? 1/2 second shutter? 'cause that's incredibly slow.

yup 1/2 sec exposure. Iso is set at 200 but can be adjusted to 3200. But I don't want to introduce too much noise into the picture.

What's a good iso setting to try?
Bad Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:32 AM   #9
maxQ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2446
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: limbo
Vehicle:
'11 Alfa Cloverleaf
grise

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
yup 1/2 sec exposure. Iso is set at 200 but can be adjusted to 3200. But I don't want to introduce too much noise into the picture.

What's a good iso setting to try?

at f5.6, 1600 is probably still optimistic.

Do you want some noise or a blurry wife?

Ultimately, your choice is a flash or faster, $$ lens.
maxQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:38 AM   #10
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

with a iso of 3200 I still need 1/30s exposure

looks like it's a flash or nothing
Bad Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:48 AM   #11
maxQ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2446
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: limbo
Vehicle:
'11 Alfa Cloverleaf
grise

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
with a iso of 3200 I still need 1/30s exposure

looks like it's a flash or nothing

If you have an external flash and are inside, point the flash at the ceiling. The light will be more flattering than pointed right at the subject.
maxQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 10:57 AM   #12
SimonJ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135309
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default

With that lens, you will need a flash - full stop.

If you don't want to use a flash, then you need a faster lens, such as a 50mm f1.4 - and then crank up the ISO. Noise is just a fact of life for low light shooting.

Unfortunately, your choices are limited because you have a d5000. Only one of the Nikon 50mm will autofocus on your camera, the AF-S version, which is quite expensive ($5-600).
SimonJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:12 AM   #13
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

^ good advice, thanks
Bad Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #14
LokiV7
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30636
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Naperville, IL
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy GT Ltd
Obs Black Pearl

Default

Yeah, I laughed when I saw the 1/2 second exposure at 200iso. For indoor stuff, there's just no way -- I'm actually a little surprised you even managed to get still shots to come out without looking blurry if it's handheld. Far higher iso, and a wider aperture will both help get faster shutter speeds, but obviously you're limited by what the lens lets you do. Flash, as others've said is ultimately a solution too, but I personally never like the way that looks -- often times what I see with the existing light is what I wanted a picture of - flash usually changes the scene completely.

I have Canon's 50mm 1.8 prime, and it absolutely helps with this sort of thing, but it's still not a miracle of science. At the end of the day, you're still indoors without enough light to truly capture something fast.

For others with prime lenses -- is there one you use for indoors that's more of a wideangle than the 50? I struggle a lot with always feeling like I'm too zoomed in for indoor situations if I want something other than an in-your-face portrait all the time
LokiV7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:34 AM   #15
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

f5.6? No way you'll be able to shoot moving subjects indoors without a flash. Period.

Faster glass. My fastest lens is a 50mm/1.4 and I adore it for indoors use.

I totally disagree with LokiV7 about flash. While I try to avoid it whenever possible, there are ways to use a flash in ways that appear more natural. With the fixed forward onboard or popup flashes there is nothing you can do. But a separate flash with a movable head that allows you to reflect the light off the ceiling or wall makes a huge difference. Even better, get the flash off the camera. There is a reason why pro wedding photographers use that big bracket that gets the flash way off the camera. The worst kind of light is flash directed straight at your subjects and in line with the lens axis of the camera.
Neek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #16
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

1/2 second exposure...think about that for a second. Read this sentence in a basic normal speed:

I suck.

That took you a half a second to say. Think about all the moving that goes on in that time. It's an absolutely gigantically huge amount of time to have the shutter open and expect to freeze any motion.
Neek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:43 AM   #17
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

^ yeah I get that

I was wondering if these cameras have some kind of magic photoshop/picasa way of iauto adjusting exposure brightness.

Like if the image doesn't have enough variance or most of the pixels are below a theshold, the whole image gets brightened.

The camera has a ton stuff like flash compensation/exposure compensations/ other magic stuff. Kinda wondering if any of it is known to be useful
Bad Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:44 AM   #18
iguanamafia
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23426
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: NH USA
Vehicle:
2010 Forester
Streetfighter

Default

I'm no photographer, but wouldn't increasing the ambient light help in this situation?
iguanamafia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 11:57 AM   #19
hatchd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 201307
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2002 wrx
wrb

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iguanamafia View Post
I'm no photographer, but wouldn't increasing the ambient light help in this situation?
It would, but even at that with a ****ty lens (he said 18-55, I'm assuming it was the kit lens that came with it) it's still damn near impossible to get enough light indoors to shoot something like this.

OP - like everyone else has said, get something that stops down to about 1.8 and bump the iso up. That's your only chance without a flash. I have the 50mm 1.8 for my Canon and I've shot decent action shots of my ex's dog indoors, but there was a lot of noise in the background. You can PS away noise somewhat, you can't PS away blurry subjects.
hatchd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 12:00 PM   #20
ForceFed4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7370
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Deep into felonious speeds
Vehicle:
2013 5.0
SGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonJ View Post
With that lens, you will need a flash - full stop.
Agreed. With the kit lens, you have no other option, really.

If you want a flash that isn't so obvious, the cheapest hotshoe flash you can bounce would be the Nikon SB400, at a little over $120. Cheaper than any lens upgrade.

Quote:
If you don't want to use a flash, then you need a faster lens...Unfortunately, your choices are limited because you have a d5000. Only one of the Nikon 50mm will autofocus on your camera, the AF-S version, which is quite expensive ($5-600).
Or he can buy the Nikkor 35mm f1.8G AF-S DX for under $200, basically tailor-made for what he wants to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
I was wondering if these cameras have some kind of magic photoshop/picasa way of iauto adjusting exposure brightness.

Like if the image doesn't have enough variance or most of the pixels are below a theshold, the whole image gets brightened.

The camera has a ton stuff like flash compensation/exposure compensations/ other magic stuff. Kinda wondering if any of it is known to be useful
Uh sure; may I ask why you (seem to be) using fully manual mode? Try Aperature/shutter priority, or even program mode, with auto ISO "On" and VR set to "On" as well. You'll almost certainly get better pictures, unless you really know what you're doing in "M".
ForceFed4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 12:01 PM   #21
jacobsen1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 16711
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: N. Kingstown RI
Vehicle:
2011 forester
2015 legacy

Default

you need more light. options:
  • flash (expensive and annoying to your subjects)
  • fast glass (f/1.4~1.8), expensive, but less annoying
  • more ISO (fugly, get some noise reduction software to go with it)
  • RAWs (yes, I said it, much easier to clean up the noise in post with a RAW, plus WB issues are common in low light inside)

I've been shooting inside for ~2.5 years now (since I started my PAD in 2008). I HATE flash, and so does my kid. So I've gone the fast primes route with a 50mm 1.4 and 24mm 1.4. I also use a FF sensor camera because they're at least a stop better with noise. I then run all my shots through NN in post to help.

If you're using a DX sensor (you are) get a fast lens pronto. The siggy 30mm or nikon 35 would be my top 2 suggestions, but sigma's 20 and 24mm 1.8s are also not bad. Expect to spend ~$500. Then crank your ISO up to 1600, or maybe even 3200. Put your camera in Av, set it to 1.8 or 1.4 (the smallest number the lens has) and set auto ISO up with a 3200 ceiling and a minimum shutter speed of 1/125th. THIS IS HOW I'VE SHOT YEARS OF INDOORS PICTURES! Then when you process the pics, run them through NN and you're set.

With my D700, I can get to 6400, 9000 and even 12800 and get shots when needed. Yes you can use 2.8 zooms if you want, but even after going from a 5D to a 5Dii to a D700, I've NEVER stopped using my fast primes because I'm always at the lowest possible ISO I can get to.

And if you miss on your exposures, miss with it OVER exposed unless it means super low shutters, bringing shots down in post lessens the noise.

12800, 1/8th, f/2.8


that's with my 28-75mm 2.8 which I HATE using inside, but it makes testing high ISOs a bit easier.
jacobsen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #22
jacobsen1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 16711
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: N. Kingstown RI
Vehicle:
2011 forester
2015 legacy

Default

here's why I don't like flash, especially with kids BTW:
http://newschoolofphotography.com/li...ing-flash.html


they hate it and it draws attention (so you get less candid shots).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
If you want a flash that isn't so obvious, the cheapest hotshoe flash you can bounce would be the Nikon SB400, at a little over $120. Cheaper than any lens upgrade.
the SB-24 can be had for ~$50 and will work with some automation in the hotshoe or with a nikon cord. Yes it's almost a manual flash (why I have and love mine) but on a budget it works pretty damn well. But for the OP, if you're going to go down this road, AT LEAST BOUNCE IT, but I'd highly suggest an off camera cord as it makes it much easier to not blind people.

Elias is a year older now and likes playing with my softboxes a bit more:




but they're... ummmm, what's the word I'm looking for here...... Oh yeah, SOFTER!


I'll take dealing with noise anyday over flashes for casual around the house shooting. Flashes have their place, sure, but they're just such a PITA to deal with.
jacobsen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 12:44 PM   #23
aubsxc
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 91476
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2005 9-2x Aero
Black

Default

You need to buy a flash unit. Period. You can make very natural looking images with flash lighting if you know what you are doing.

Or you need to invest in very big glass (large aperture equals more light reaching the sensor, also equals more dollars) and shoot at very high ISO's.

In short, you have to either add light to the scene, or increase the light gathering ability of your equipment. Step 1 is less expensive and will get you "better" results in most cases.
aubsxc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 12:48 PM   #24
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'18 Pacifica PHEV
'12 RAV4 EV

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
you need more light. options:
  • flash (expensive and annoying to your subjects)
  • fast glass (f/1.4~1.8), expensive, but less annoying
  • more ISO (fugly, get some noise reduction software to go with it)
  • RAWs (yes, I said it, much easier to clean up the noise in post with a RAW, plus WB issues are common in low light inside)
This. Teh OP is doing it all wrong at ISO 200, 1/2 sec, f/5.6.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 12:53 PM   #25
edkwon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 453
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: 小さいӔ
Vehicle:
2017 Kia Niro
2016 Porsche Cayman GTS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
More details on the setup:

Nikon d5000 with 18mm-55mm lens and all compensations/corrections turned off. i have it zoomed out so 18mm focal length for now.

For this image, I have the camera set at f5.6 and 1/2 exposure

At these settings, the background comes out clear and bright, but obviously anything moving comes out blurred.

I'm trying to get the same thing but with a much shorter exposure so I can shoot moving subjects.

1. the kit lens is crap and i'll suited to shoot moving subjects indoors without motion blur and without the benefit of an external flash

2. f5.6 is WAY TOO NARROW at apeture, you need to open it up all the way and even the kit lens sucks as its max apeture is only 3.5 i believe, you need to buy a fast prime lens as suggested before with an apeture closer to 1.7-2.0

3. a 1/2 sec exposure is an eternity in photography terms, you want the avoid motion blur? exposure has to be at LEAST 1/100 sec but ideally much more

4. increase your ISO to at least 800, i'm assuming the D5000 has the same sensitivity range as the D90 which I own which can comfortably take decent high ISO shots up to 1600, you didn't mention what your ISO settings were

5. increase EV compensation up 1/3 - 1.0 stops of light to brighten the shot

and OP, read some basic books/magazines on basic photography, you clearly need to be versed in some of the fundamentals.

Last edited by edkwon; 06-04-2010 at 01:25 PM.
edkwon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT photographers. How do I take a pic that looks like this (pic) plunk10 Off-Topic 6 03-17-2006 04:16 PM
OT photographers, choose which pics I add to my portfolio book. Protege Menace Off-Topic 31 01-17-2006 03:03 AM
Attn: OT Photographers...wth do I do with this? DrDRum Off-Topic 30 12-14-2005 11:59 PM
OT photographers, need some advice (making a portfolio to floss) Protege Menace Off-Topic 6 06-14-2005 11:43 AM
OT photographers. Who here's been paid for it? chyisan Off-Topic 5 12-21-2003 03:55 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.