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Old 04-22-2017, 05:56 PM   #1
albersondh
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Default Home lathe and mill reccomendations and tips?

Im sick of driving all over the place and begging machine shops to do my little one off BS projects. Its getting harder and harder to find a good machine shop that is willing to take on less than production volume work... Been looking at bench top lathes and mills, like this. http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=4841

At the moment I need to make some small bushings and hold an id/od to +/- .0005 and Im at a stand still until I get this done.

Anybody using these bench top lathes and/or mills for DIY stuff? What about combo lathe+mill/drill machines? From what I understand getting the combo machines set up is a PIA and they require frequent readjustment. Is it even possible to hold .0005 facing, boring, ect, with one of these machines?
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:01 PM   #2
ALOKIN
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I started with machines like that. Now I have a decent size cnc shop. You wont repeat 5 tenths on any those bench top chinese machines.

Depending on the size of work you do, a used hardinge collet lathe would be my first choice for small accurate parts.

Mass and rigidity is what you need for accuracy. If a lathe weighs less than 3000lbs its a toy.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:06 PM   #3
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Look for a tool room lathe.

Hardinge, southbend, monarch, le blonde, clark etc.
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:38 PM   #4
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^ what these guys said ^

If you going to do mostly turning projects then a lathe is more what you want. ( like what you linked ) If your planing on doing little brackets, plate bits and brace ends, then a drill mill is more likely what you want. It will let you do some straight pass milling and straight accurate holes. If you get one with a long throat combined with a good machinist angle vice it should let you figure out you actually want to get into doing your own little machined bits for under $1200. That price is far from a good long term setup if you really get into projects that you want to repeat with accuracy.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:47 AM   #5
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Good suggestions thus far.

Keep in mind, most larger machines (used tool room stuff) usually takes three phase (AKA 3ph) power which is VERY uncommon in a house, usually you only have single phase (AKA 1ph, 220VAC max) in the US.
A search on the Internet will yield using another motor to generate three phase power.
It gets expensive if not impossible to convert the machine to single phase.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:03 AM   #6
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I'd recommend looking in to a Smithy/Midas 3-in-1, unless you're looking to do large parts.
Well maintained I could easily hold ±0.001 in. with those tabletop units.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATMINSIDE View Post
I'd recommend looking in to a Smithy/Midas 3-in-1, unless you're looking to do large parts.
Well maintained I could easily hold ±0.001 in. with those tabletop units.
Well thats double the tolerance hes asking for lol.

When you get into wanting to repeat tenths for production, the toy machines arent going to do it. You need mass and rigidity and ideally a probing system to track cutter wear. A collet chuck is a must.

I have 2 cnc lathes ones a haas tl2 engine type cnc lathe. Weighs ~4k lbs. It'll wont reliably repeat to half a thou unless you give it lots of attention. My 15,000 lb st30ssy will hold that all day with no worries
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:42 AM   #8
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^^^all great suggestions! great point about the power requirements too.

i would tend to agree to stay away from chinese junk, if possible, and look for better quality used equipment. try checking the inventories with various used equipment dealers in your region, such as http://www.mwmachinery.com/

however, this site is dedicated to tweaking and improving the low cost chinese machines sold by Little Machine Shop, etc.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm

USA-made micro and mini mills:
http://www.taigtools.com/index.html
http://sherline.com/

+/- .0005 is pretty tight. on a lathe, that means you need the machine to hold within .00025". the temperature of the day could easily change the outcome of your precision.

good luck!
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALOKIN View Post
Well thats double the tolerance hes asking for lol.

When you get into wanting to repeat tenths for production, the toy machines arent going to do it. You need mass and rigidity and ideally a probing system to track cutter wear. A collet chuck is a must.

I have 2 cnc lathes ones a haas tl2 engine type cnc lathe. Weighs ~4k lbs. It'll wont reliably repeat to half a thou unless you give it lots of attention. My 15,000 lb st30ssy will hold that all day with no worries
Well he was addressing the tabletop combo units in his initial post, so I was giving my personal experience with the Smithy tabletop combo unit.

Not all of us have the money/space for a 15,000 lb, $100K, CNC lathe.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATMINSIDE View Post
Well he was addressing the tabletop combo units in his initial post, so I was giving my personal experience with the Smithy tabletop combo unit.

Not all of us have the money/space for a 15,000 lb, $100K, CNC lathe.
Im just giving an example of what it takes to repeat the tolerances he wants, Im not being an *******

Like I said in my first response those chincy table tops wont do it. A decent hardinge with collet closer should be in the $5k range. That'll get him were he wants .

Now if in reality he really only needs 5 thouish tolerances then a table top should do it.

Repeating tenths in production is not cheap.

Last edited by ALOKIN; 04-24-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALOKIN View Post
Repeating tenths in production is not cheap.
+.0001"
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Good suggestions thus far.

Keep in mind, most larger machines (used tool room stuff) usually takes three phase (AKA 3ph) power which is VERY uncommon in a house, usually you only have single phase (AKA 1ph, 220VAC max) in the US.
A search on the Internet will yield using another motor to generate three phase power.
It gets expensive if not impossible to convert the machine to single phase.
Converting a three phase machine to single phase is essentially impossible, but you can get three phase converters for a residential set up and they aren't expensive at all.

Just to throw it out there, that cheapo toy lathe you linked was over $2 grand.
A few months back I picked up a small cnc gang lathe from a guy closing up shop for $1000, and it doesn't hold 5 tenths easily, it holds ONE tenth easily.
Machine tools are up for auction literally non stop, shops are always going bankrupt despite morons who will pretend it's a piece of cake making money in machining. Basically those are the morons who's equipment you can pick up for pennies on the dollar because it was so easy to make money they folded.
Look online at auction sites and in the paper and you'll find machines on a whole different level of quality for less money.

Also, if you want bushing to hold 5 tenths you should be turning them down to a thou, and then honing if you are working on lesser equipment.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:55 PM   #13
Wayne Suhrbier
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If you use a phase converter find a rotary one, not a static. You could also look into a Variable Frequency Drive.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
Converting a three phase machine to single phase is essentially impossible, but you can get three phase converters for a residential set up and they aren't expensive at all.

Just to throw it out there, that cheapo toy lathe you linked was over $2 grand.
A few months back I picked up a small cnc gang lathe from a guy closing up shop for $1000, and it doesn't hold 5 tenths easily, it holds ONE tenth easily.
Machine tools are up for auction literally non stop, shops are always going bankrupt despite morons who will pretend it's a piece of cake making money in machining. Basically those are the morons who's equipment you can pick up for pennies on the dollar because it was so easy to make money they folded.
Look online at auction sites and in the paper and you'll find machines on a whole different level of quality for less money.

Also, if you want bushing to hold 5 tenths you should be turning them down to a thou, and then honing if you are working on lesser equipment.
Whats the make and model of said lathe?
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:42 AM   #15
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Eguro Nuclet-10
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
Eguro Nuclet-10
not familiar with that brand, but looks like a pretty rad machine tool! plus, made in japan! nice.

OP, a used one of those^^^ is up for sale on this site, which is based in MN:
https://www.machinesused.com/machine...ls.cfm?ID=9893
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotopesope View Post
not familiar with that brand, but looks like a pretty rad machine tool! plus, made in japan! nice.

OP, a used one of those^^^ is up for sale on this site, which is based in MN:
https://www.machinesused.com/machine...ls.cfm?ID=9893
yeah I never heard of it either until I went through the guys shop but i took his word when he said it holds tenths all day and he was honest. Great machine for small parts, not much floor space. Spindle can go from 4000 rpm's CCW to 4000 rpm's CW in about two seconds.
Fanuc control too.

The guy was an exceptional machinist.
Businessman. . . .not so good.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:59 PM   #18
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Pics or vids of it running?

Gang tool lathes are a no no for a job shop, turrets absolutely crush them for setup speed.
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:49 PM   #19
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no videos i've taken but it's identical to all the gangs online.
And I've got three turrets already for big stuff, up to 50" length and 26" diameter.

agreed set up and offsets are super fast but they are big machines and suck for tiny parts simply due to having to reach into them so far
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:22 PM   #20
ALOKIN
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I thought so....

So you spout off/rant on about how you paid a grand for a lathe that can hold ONE tenth all day long that you purchased from a "moron" (your term) that was going out of business because he thought making money was going to be really easy. Then you mention in passing you were just taking this "morons" word for it that this clapped out +20 year old gang lathe could hold a tenth all day. So if you really did buy it (doubtful) you've never really run it.

Just another baseless post with garbage information from a windbag who has no real experience with anything. 99% your posts on here have no substance at all and when you do try to add something it's usually wrong and gets shot down quickly. You know dick about subarus and even less about machines and/or machining. Hows that spring tensioner on our cars work again or how about explaining what a compressor is again

Heres a pic of one of the machines I ACTUALLY own and operate, Enjoy:




Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
Converting a three phase machine to single phase is essentially impossible, but you can get three phase converters for a residential set up and they aren't expensive at all.

Just to throw it out there, that cheapo toy lathe you linked was over $2 grand.
A few months back I picked up a small cnc gang lathe from a guy closing up shop for $1000, and it doesn't hold 5 tenths easily, it holds ONE tenth easily.
Machine tools are up for auction literally non stop, shops are always going bankrupt despite morons who will pretend it's a piece of cake making money in machining. Basically those are the morons who's equipment you can pick up for pennies on the dollar because it was so easy to make money they folded.
Look online at auction sites and in the paper and you'll find machines on a whole different level of quality for less money.

Also, if you want bushing to hold 5 tenths you should be turning them down to a thou, and then honing if you are working on lesser equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
yeah I never heard of it either until I went through the guys shop but i took his word when he said it holds tenths all day and he was honest. Great machine for small parts, not much floor space. Spindle can go from 4000 rpm's CCW to 4000 rpm's CW in about two seconds.
Fanuc control too.

The guy was an exceptional machinist.
Businessman. . . .not so good.
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:03 AM   #21
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^still mad I called you out on your fake story about how you made your money aye?
4 possibilities
Inherited
Married into it
Won in injury lawsuit
lottery


I bet that lathe you stood in front of collects dust 29 days a month. Mine run all day 5 days a week, and they aren't showroom clean either, they look like machines that get used.

Great bitter rant though BTW, really made me look stupid.
I actually gave that guy good advice.
All you had to say was, "uhhh, if you want to do that you need a $200,000 bran new cnc, and me super rich so me have one."

And again, the fact that you think a 20 year old cnc makes it junk PROVES with ZERO doubt you have never run any kind of business whatsoever. Plain and simple.
You are a cheeseball guy who got handed a ton of money you didn't earn, bought ultra expensive equipment that noone who earned their money would have done because used equipment can do the same job for 1/10th the cost, and you are SUPER bent that I called you out on your fake story.

I hope you didn't think it wasn't obvious you were fishing me with your lame questions either. Made it even funnier for me because it proves how bitter you are I called BS on your made up story.
People with real lives that aren't made up wouldn't still be furious a month later about an anonymous internet user.
And you took the time to take a pic calling me gay? Do you think that makes me look bad?? Or maybe you?
Maybe I am gay. I guess you have a problem with that.

Funny how every thread you are in you immediately find an excuse to talk about your 6 figure shop toys to humbly brag.
Again, boy you sure made me look dumb!!! nice work

edit: when i said i took his word and he was honest i meant it turned out he was honest and it runs fantastic, we've done business with him for years and know him, he's an honest guy.

Last edited by rtv900; 05-01-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albersondh View Post
At the moment I need to make some small bushings and hold an id/od to +/- .0005 and Im at a stand still until I get this done.
Why do you need that tight of a tolerance? Sounds like poor design if you need it to be that tight.

Relax the tolerance spec and your manufacturing options are much more open.
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Old 05-05-2017, 08:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman358 View Post
Why do you need that tight of a tolerance?.
Im with this guy.

But in all seriousness, a worn out forgotten, put in an out building with a leaky roof 3 winters ago crap lathe will cut .0005. I just wouldn't want to make 100 of something on one. Just buy a cheapy jet or whatever you can find on CL.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:03 AM   #24
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman358 View Post
Why do you need that tight of a tolerance? Sounds like poor design if you need it to be that tight.

Relax the tolerance spec and your manufacturing options are much more open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvangelder View Post
Im with this guy.

But in all seriousness, a worn out forgotten, put in an out building with a leaky roof 3 winters ago crap lathe will cut .0005. I just wouldn't want to make 100 of something on one. Just buy a cheapy jet or whatever you can find on CL.
Agreed, tolerance costs time and money. When I did drawings for parts for others to make, I left larger tolerances where I could (even +/- 1/16") but tighter where needed.
I usually got better than the drawings since the shop needed it as a reference for critical dimensions, but I paid by what I listed.

Making a few pieces allows you to use a worn machine and sneak up on a dimension, production runs are different, it takes too long.
I have a Southbend flat belt drive 3' long x 4" swing lathe. The ways are worn such that the carriage is tight in spots and loose in others. I can still do small bushings, etc. just have to take my time.
I have a floor stand heavy Delta drill press for mill type work, amazing what you can do with inventive fixturing.

Worst case, 30 miles away I have access to a real mill and lathe.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:51 PM   #25
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FWIW, I had a limited budget so was only able to get a South Bend 9", and a reaaallly old one at that (1922). It came with tooling (like 3&4-jaw, tailstock drill chuck, HSS cutting tools, steady/follow rests, etc), but ultimately it's really old. (in retrospect, I still would have bought it - just no budget for something newer)

That being said, I'm still able to indicate within 1 thou (ok, just within ) on the 4-jaw, and can now do a lot of work that was impossible otherwise. This will provide a good learning experience, but that's mostly what I was in it for.

I would advise spending at least 2-3k (usd) for the lathe, esp if you plan on doing anything serious with it (like you know you want sub 1-thou tolerances, and repeatable). If you are in it for the learning and enhanced fabrication abilities, then pretty much anything will get you there.

The rule of thumb I saw was 'if you can pick it up by yourself, it's probably not quite enough'. My engine hoist came in handy when I got mine home.
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