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Old 03-31-2012, 10:29 PM   #1526
xluben
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^PM'd. Very interested in the details.

I decided to put my GFB Hybrid BOV back on today. I previously only had it on for a few days. I had the spring pre-load adjustment screw set to flush with the cap (where GFB recommends). At this setting it fully closed at itdle, drove fine, and blew of nicely under high boost, but it would create compressor surge (flutter) on partial boost lifts. GFB acknowledges that there may be slight flutter, and that it is nothing to worry about, but I didn't really like it.

The BOV has some external wear, but internally is perfect. I took it apart today and looked at the spring adjustments. I noticed you could back the adjustment screw out another 5-6 turns before the spring was fully extended into the housing. This made the screw stick way out. I decided to buy a shorter screw so it would have less pre-load and still be flush with the top of the cap. While I was at the hardware store I replaced all the screws with shiny new SS screws (the current ones had some corrosion).

I re-installed it (with the new screws installed). Now with the screw flush it had about 3/8" less pre-load on the spring. I started it up and was happy to find that the valve still closed at idle. Vacuum readings looked normal, and it idled smoothly. I took it for a drive and it blows off really nicely now. If I am barely, barely into boost and slowly let off, I can get a tiny amount of flutter, but hardly anything. Under normal driving (high or low boost) it opens with a nice "pssshhh".

There are some situations where it makes the "pssshhh" sound where the Forge wouldn't have made any sound. This makes me think that the Forge wasn't actually fully closed at that point. I think I'll give this valve a shot for a while although I am still considering trying a few other hybrid valves, just to see how they sound. I do like the idea of a sequential valve that would recirculate first (ie. low boost shifts) and only VTA if it was higher boost. I need to figure out which valves do this, but right now I'm pretty happy with the GFB.











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Old 04-01-2012, 05:53 PM   #1527
xluben
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Lovin' the BOV. Everyone should get one!
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:57 PM   #1528
rsutton1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
Lovin' the BOV. Everyone should get one!
I feel a video coming.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:06 PM   #1529
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Hmm. Maybe. I don't have a lot of free time right now...
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:40 PM   #1530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsutton1223 View Post
I feel a video coming.
+1 on the video
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:12 PM   #1531
besthaticouldo
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thats awesome. i love the things you do, your thread is awesome!

hahaha.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #1532
INKMAN
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Is there any tuning involved with the hybrid valve?
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:56 PM   #1533
smeerone
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@xluben, was that you that made a sleeve for the coils? I'm interested in making one.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #1534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsutton1223 View Post
I feel a video coming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olazy View Post
+1 on the video
Ask and you shall receive!


I took it easy on the shifting, so you could hopefully hear the valve better. I also did plenty of partial boost shifts so you could hear that it doesn't flutter (like I've had problems with). Unfortunately I had the driver's window up (and the other 3 cracked), so you can't really hear it as well as you could if they all were open. We'll see if I get tired of it or not. Right now I really like it. It seems very responsive, and really isn't all that loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by besthaticouldo View Post
thats awesome. i love the things you do, your thread is awesome!

hahaha.
Thanks. If only I had a better shift knob...

Quote:
Originally Posted by INKMAN View Post
Is there any tuning involved with the hybrid valve?
I just slapped it on.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:59 PM   #1535
xluben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeerone View Post
@xluben, was that you that made a sleeve for the coils? I'm interested in making one.
Yeah, I put covers on mine last fall. They worked very well.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=881
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&postcount=29
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:10 AM   #1536
besthaticouldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Ask and you shall receive!

2011 Subaru WRX - GFB 50/50 Hybrid BOV - YouTube

I took it easy on the shifting, so you could hopefully hear the valve better. I also did plenty of partial boost shifts so you could hear that it doesn't flutter (like I've had problems with). Unfortunately I had the driver's window up (and the other 3 cracked), so you can't really hear it as well as you could if they all were open. We'll see if I get tired of it or not. Right now I really like it. It seems very responsive, and really isn't all that loud.


Thanks. If only I had a better shift knob...


I just slapped it on.
HAHA, soon man. honestly, soon. i am hoping by the end of next week i should have them ready to ship.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:11 AM   #1537
PROcede
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holy eff. You have a beast sir.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:16 AM   #1538
smeerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
Thank u sir.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:17 AM   #1539
nighthawk06si
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sounds good Ben. Even with the driver window up! I feel like it's more pronounce than the Forge bpv
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:21 AM   #1540
xluben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk06si View Post
sounds good Ben. Even with the driver window up! I feel like it's more pronounce than the Forge bpv
Yeah, you really can't even hear the Forge. At low boost it doesn't even blow (I believe it's open the whole time), and at high boost the EWG drowns it put. Mid level boost you can hear it a little, but not too much. I like how this valve crisply blows off, even at 0-5psi. This tells me it is fully closed, yet still very responsive.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:13 AM   #1541
ofspunk7
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Wow, sounds good Ben. I think I might have to swap out my Forge for something better.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:36 AM   #1542
J_Maher_WRX
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In xlubens case, he really can benefit from halving a BOV that vents either 50/50 or 100 to the atmosphere. It is beneficial for him considering how much boost he's running and the amount of power, and the need to hold boost consistently and be able to release it quickly is crucial at those kind of power levels.

For the others though, chances are if you get any type of valve that is not 100% recirc, your car will not run at 100% efficiency. For most of us at either stock or near stock power levels, getting a bov that utilizes a VTA setup is quite literally just a noise maker and only acts to decrease the performance and efficiency of our cars.

I'm a Function > Form kinda guy, and obviously I'd like to have a BOV that sounds awesome! But until I get to a point where that BOV actually makes sense to use, I'll stick with my Forge unit. When you start making that kind of power where a BOV would actually benefit your car, then you have the luxury of being able to choose the coolest sounding valve you can find
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:30 AM   #1543
olazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Ask and you shall receive!

Yeah, you really can't even hear the Forge. At low boost it doesn't even blow (I believe it's open the whole time), and at high boost the EWG drowns it put. Mid level boost you can hear it a little, but not too much. I like how this valve crisply blows off, even at 0-5psi. This tells me it is fully closed, yet still very responsive.
thanks x, sounds great.

i feel like i'm getting the opposite results with my forge. i found mine to be a lot louder than stock too. i'll try to get some vids (won't nearly be as quick as you)

also would the gfb valve fit on the stock wrx tmic due to the diamond shaped gasket? i noticed the gfb comes with a metal plate and assume that should help with mating the fitting the two together. also is the gfb respons just a relabeled version of your gt hybrid?
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:37 AM   #1544
Dale2011WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olazy View Post
i feel like i'm getting the opposite results with my forge. i found mine to be a lot louder than stock too.
I installed a Forge a couple weeks ago, and I also found it to be a lot louder than the OEM BPV. I also have a CAI, probably makes some difference as well. I wonder how much difference the FMIC makes, compared to TMIC.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:40 AM   #1545
olazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Maher_WRX View Post
I'm a Function > Form kinda guy, and obviously I'd like to have a BOV that sounds awesome! But until I get to a point where that BOV actually makes sense to use, I'll stick with my Forge unit. When you start making that kind of power where a BOV would actually benefit your car, then you have the luxury of being able to choose the coolest sounding valve you can find
i'd have to agree, not everyone is at xluben status

can't beat the forge for its function and price point, but it's nice to see what else is out there even if it's not for the common folk.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:41 AM   #1546
xluben
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I don't know if it's necessarily a case of power level requiring a BOV, but more so just trying to get the most responsive setup. I would argue that a recirculating valve is theoretically best for a MAF based system. All metered air should technically stay within the system. It is more that the VTA valve isn't really that bad, and that this valve is able to adjust more than the Forge.

The Forge valve has a piston design that has much greater area on the top side. This results in a net force downward (closing the valve) under boost. Really, no matter how light your spring is, the valve will still close tightly and hold boost. The downside with that is that it is always open under vacuum, and even very low boost. You could get it to close with a very stiff spring (stiffer than they include), but it would have a lot of compressor surge.

The GFB valve has similar area on the top and bottom side (possibly slightly more on the top). This essentially means the piston is neutral based on air pressure. The spring holds it closed. Correct spring pressure is much more crucial here. If you have it set up correctly, it will close at idle (unlike the Forge), and still blow of very rapidly. Another side benefit of the 50/50 Hybrid valve is that there is essentially twice as much flow area (so it vents more quickly).

Really the Forge valve (or similar design) is probably best for the vast majority of people. It is essentially plug and play. You really should be able to install just about any spring, and it will function fine. It will always close tightly (and always hold boost unless the piston sealing surface is dirty or damaged). Other valves simply offer more options for adjustability (which for some people could just be more ways to screw them up). A recirculating valve that closes at idle may actually be the best option (as long as you take the time to set it up correctly), but for now the GFB valve seems to be doing the job.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:44 AM   #1547
ofspunk7
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^ stop making me want more parts
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:50 AM   #1548
xluben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olazy View Post
thanks x, sounds great.

i feel like i'm getting the opposite results with my forge. i found mine to be a lot louder than stock too. i'll try to get some vids (won't nearly be as quick as you)

also would the gfb valve fit on the stock wrx tmic due to the diamond shaped gasket? i noticed the gfb comes with a metal plate and assume that should help with mating the fitting the two together. also is the gfb respons just a relabeled version of your gt hybrid?
I think the GFB BOV's (that are sold for the WRX) will come with a flat paper gasket, that will work with the diamond shaped TMIC hole. I got the valve used and had to cut my own paper gasket.

The newer GFB Respons valve has a feature where you can adjust the amount of VTA vs. recirculate on the fly. You have to turn the outer housing, and it rotates a collar inside that directs air one way or the other. It's a very nifty feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale2011WRX View Post
I installed a Forge a couple weeks ago, and I also found it to be a lot louder than the OEM BPV. I also have a CAI, probably makes some difference as well. I wonder how much difference the FMIC makes, compared to TMIC.
Maybe it's just been so long since I installed the Forge valve that I don't remember what the stock valve sounds like. Maybe I'll have to try it again someday. It should be noted that the stock valve has a slightly different operation than the Forge. It is a similar design physically, but the stock valve has an internal port that feeds air from the TMIC side of the valve to the other side the of the piston/diaphragm. I think this makes the spring hold the valve shut, instead of the boost pressure, but it could be a combination of the two. I would have to do some more research to find out for sure.

One noteable difference between a TMIC and a FMIC is the difference in stored air volume. I would think that the BOV would need to vent a lot more air volume with a FMIC, in order to avoid compressor surge. This may be why I'm favoring quick venting valves. I'm not sure how this would change the sound though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olazy View Post
i'd have to agree, not everyone is at xluben status

can't beat the forge for its function and price point, but it's nice to see what else is out there even if it's not for the common folk.
I agree, the Forge is still a great choice and works as intended on all setups. It's a very robust design. As long as you mount it properly, you really can't screw it. I still do want to try out other valves, but I don't know if I'll have the funding to just play around with this, especially when I have two working valves already, lol.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #1549
J_Maher_WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olazy

i'd have to agree, not everyone is at xluben status

can't beat the forge for its function and price point, but it's nice to see what else is out there even if it's not for the common folk.
Yeah very few of us are at xlubens level :P lol

And I agree, the Forge unit is awesome in my opinion, so well made and does the job beautifully. I found that the forge unit was a bit louder than the stock BPV, although I did have a Cobb SF intake on as well. Back to stock for a while until my downpipe and tactrix cable come in (sold my AP) and I noticed the sound level of the Forge unit to drop off significantly with the stock airbox.

That GFB hybrid unit sounds good though man, and I hear ya, hard to find something that's going to be heard over the 44mm EWG :P absolute monster of a car man, good work!

All you need now is a ppg 1-4 gearset and it's time to take it to the drag strip
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:03 PM   #1550
olazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I still do want to try out other valves, but I don't know if I'll have the funding to just play around with this, especially when I have two working valves already, lol.
i mod vicariously through you, don't stop
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