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Old 03-26-2005, 11:53 PM   #1
bottlediger
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Default EM for 450 WHP STI dyno tuned Utec or Cobb AP AT

Ok guys I currently have both a Utec (not hooked up) and a Cobb AP. Now right now I have cobb stage 2 on my car. but I have sitting here my 450 whp set up. Now I was planning on selling the Accessport and hooking up the utec to get a dyno tune for the 450whp set up. Which do you think would be better engine managment wise to use, the utec or the cobb AP with Access tuner softwear for such high horse power. I know the utec has been around a while and a lot of tuners know how to tune it. And the AP is a very new guy so Im worried that I wouldnt get as good of a tune as i would with the utec. I just love how the AP gets ride of the speedo rev limiter (147mpg) and gets rid of the DAM exaust cel's. Let me know what you think. I need to have everything squared away by MAY.
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Old 03-27-2005, 08:35 AM   #2
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bump guys this is a question I really need to figure out
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Old 03-27-2005, 09:25 AM   #3
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If there are any tuners around where you live that can tune the ST, I'd stick with what you got. I will say this though, you won't go wrong with either choice. It's all in the hands of the tuner, really.

(obligatory chop busting) So, you get 147mpg? Dang, what kind of gas do you run?


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Old 03-27-2005, 01:46 PM   #4
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Are you nuts? (no offense)

Sell both your AccessPort and your UTEC and get a Hydra. I don't understand people who put together a 450whp car and dilly dally with cheap EMS solutions. Also, why would you want to screw around with MAF crap when you can get rid of it with the Hydra.

Unless your around 350whp or under, I see no reason why you would want to run anything else except full stand alone. And if it is due to emissions, 450whp won't pass anyways.
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Old 03-27-2005, 01:56 PM   #5
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Well some people want a car that's scary fast AND has cruise control, lol.

I hope the Hydra people can get cruise working at some point!
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:15 PM   #6
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utec will do it as will ST

any one that can do tuning shoudl be able to do ST
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:32 PM   #7
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You can use both. I use a UTEC over ECUTek Reflash. The reflash is a safe safe baseline tune that scales the injectors and sets baseline timing and fuel maps. The UTEC is then used for more agressive tunes for different types of gas and conditions.

Good Luck.
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Are you nuts? (no offense)

Sell both your AccessPort and your UTEC and get a Hydra. I don't understand people who put together a 450whp car and dilly dally with cheap EMS solutions. Also, why would you want to screw around with MAF crap when you can get rid of it with the Hydra.

Unless your around 350whp or under, I see no reason why you would want to run anything else except full stand alone. And if it is due to emissions, 450whp won't pass anyways.
i second going with the hydra!!! otherwise go with a ecutek reflash and utec combo. imo...
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:57 PM   #9
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I run AP in the background to hide the rear O2 CEL and ditch the speed limiter, The UTEC does the rest.
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Old 03-27-2005, 08:42 PM   #10
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yeah I know you use both 2phless, I just have to sell one so I can get some money for tunning. And I would love to go with a hydra or AEM, but 1. I dont know much about them. 2. They are very expensive. 3. I dont know where I could get one tuned around here. 4. I cant pass emissions. 5. I really dont know what a MAP is all about etc.

Now if theres a way to pass enmissions with a standalone, please let me in on it and I would highly consider getting one.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottlediger
yeah I know you use both 2phless, I just have to sell one so I can get some money for tunning. And I would love to go with a hydra or AEM, but 1. I dont know much about them. 2. They are very expensive. 3. I dont know where I could get one tuned around here. 4. I cant pass emissions. 5. I really dont know what a MAP is all about etc.

Now if theres a way to pass enmissions with a standalone, please let me in on it and I would highly consider getting one.
Price wise they aren't significantly much more than most EMSs, although since you have both the AccessPort and the UTEC, the price would have been close.

Tuning wise you can ask around, I'm sure there are some good places to tune it where you are and now a days for someone to pick up an EMS and tune it shouldn't be a big deal as long as they've used other comparable EMSs before.

Emissions wise, you won't pass with a stand alone, as it doesn't use OBDII any more. Although you still have a chance of not passing with 450whp on any setup!

Now why I suggested the Hydra was because it is a little more adaptable to different situations (gas, weather, altitude) so you don't need to tinker with it if it has been tuned correctly. The way you are talking sounds like you want to hit 450whp safely ad not have to monkey around with the tuning on your own. If that is your case, I would not aim for 450whp, but a safe 400whp. It's not fun having a car, although fast, that you have to have tuned everytime some variable changes.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:13 AM   #12
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Good read optiums thanks
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinguskahn
You can use both. I use a UTEC over ECUTek Reflash. The reflash is a safe safe baseline tune that scales the injectors and sets baseline timing and fuel maps. The UTEC is then used for more agressive tunes for different types of gas and conditions.

Good Luck.
Hahahha, you are not doing anything special by having that ecutek reflash other than 'hidding CEL codes' maybe speed limiter...!!! ...your UTEC WILL OVERRIDE/ IS OVERRIDING every attempt the ecutek reflash does to adjust itselt (meaning any internal ecu adjustment to compensate for humidity, temperature, altitude, etc.)

UTEC produces the 'output signal' it is set for by the user/tuner regardless of the input signals it receives from the stock ecu....reflashed or not.

Sooo, you just wasted ~$700 on a ecutek reflash.
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Old 03-28-2005, 01:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottlediger
Good read optiums thanks
Thanks. If you are going for ultra reliabiility on pump gas with the parts you have, I would recommend a safe EcuTek (and just EcuTek, not the UTEC piggybacking it) tune on pump gas...probably cost as little as 750 with the tuning (that's what I was quoted). I am aiming for 350 awhp and this is what I have chosen (with a 20G or green, still haven't decided).
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:10 PM   #15
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I would say screw the $400 ur gonna get for selling the AP, or the $600 for the utec. for now what you should do is buy the Street Tuner, set up a low whp tune as a base that way you could always just unplug the utec when variables change, or you need to pass emissions. then take your utec and tune it to 450whp...

you could always learn to tune it yourself ... or not
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:39 PM   #16
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Optimus/Boxer--Have you guys used the hydra? I'm just asking because recommending a standalone based on second hand info. (even one as 'potentially' good as the hydra) can get a bit hairy...it is still a standalone. I think for 95% of applications the ST/Ecutek/UTEC will work fine for people and the need for the hydra is minimized. I'm in no way saying it's a bad EM solution, it's just that it's not as 'proven' as the other solutions. (although slowly gaining accolades)

P.S. You would probably get more adaptability out of the ecutek/utec than a hydra in terms of weather corrections altitude etc. btw.
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:42 PM   #17
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im thinkin ill just stick with the utec tune then huh? Any way to beat that speedo limiter or passing emssions like the AP?
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GameOver
Hahahha, you are not doing anything special by having that ecutek reflash other than 'hidding CEL codes' maybe speed limiter...!!! ...your UTEC WILL OVERRIDE/ IS OVERRIDING every attempt the ecutek reflash does to adjust itselt (meaning any internal ecu adjustment to compensate for humidity, temperature, altitude, etc.)

UTEC produces the 'output signal' it is set for by the user/tuner regardless of the input signals it receives from the stock ecu....reflashed or not.

Sooo, you just wasted ~$700 on a ecutek reflash.
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
Optimus/Boxer--Have you guys used the hydra? I'm just asking because recommending a standalone based on second hand info. (even one as 'potentially' good as the hydra) can get a bit hairy...it is still a standalone. I think for 95% of applications the ST/Ecutek/UTEC will work fine for people and the need for the hydra is minimized. I'm in no way saying it's a bad EM solution, it's just that it's not as 'proven' as the other solutions. (although slowly gaining accolades)

P.S. You would probably get more adaptability out of the ecutek/utec than a hydra in terms of weather corrections altitude etc. btw.
I haven't worked with a Hydra, but I have worked with an Accel Gen 7(which in my opinion, is better than the Hydra). And what do you consider the upper 5% who need a stand alone? 700whp? 1500whp? What's the number that is in that upper 5%? I personally wouldn't want a piggyback controlling my engine when it's at it's limit...and 450whp on a stock motor is pretty close to the limit.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:15 PM   #20
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like i said, just trying to make sure people fully understand what they are jumping into with a standalone and make sure that it's truly the best solution for them.
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
like i said, just trying to make sure people fully understand what they are jumping into with a standalone and make sure that it's truly the best solution for them.
But it is better to jump to stand-alone before you push the limits of a piggyback.
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Old 03-29-2005, 08:24 AM   #22
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Yes but i'm not sure why you consider ecutek/utec/st a piggyback when they are not. This has all been discussed before, pm me if you want to discuss it in more detail.
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Old 03-30-2005, 11:23 AM   #23
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What variable is a hydra going to be able to do that a Utec cannot?
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Old 03-30-2005, 11:37 AM   #24
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The guys in Puerto Rico are currently using the UTEC to tune an STi that was 591whp the last I read.
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC_Obsessed
The guys in Puerto Rico are currently using the UTEC to tune an STi that was 591whp the last I read.
Yeah is that the guys that ran 10.4 in the 1/4? I heard they were on Utec too...that should speak wonders in itself.

I heard people bagging on the Utec all the time (never utec owners of course) and I've never understood it. What is the huge improvement a stand alone is going to have?
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