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Old 03-18-2018, 03:08 PM   #1
ARKTiKPENGUiN
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Default Carberry Big Injector Tuning

Hey guys, my name is Tom and I have been using Carberry/Romraider to tune my vehicle for about a year now. I started with a basic setup and have been slowly adding parts and fine tuning everything.

I recently installed an FP Green HTZ on my 02 WRX and complimented it with Five-O Motorsports Black Ops 1300cc injectors. My issue is that with the suggested latencies, scalar, and minimum pulsewidth my idle afrs are around 10.5-11:1. I have tried using low pulsewidth compensation to no avail, as putting negative fueling into the compensation table results in no changes in afr. I have my minimum pulsewidth set to .5ms for now to idle and cruise at 14.7:1, but it obviously results in hesitation/misfiring.

My injector settings are as follows in romraider:

Scalar: 1170cc
Latency: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Minimum Pulsewidth: .5ms
Max Base Pulsewidth: 3ms

I am on stock fuel rails, and have an AEM320 fuel pump. I'm just hoping I can get some guidance on learning to tune these injectors, or if anyone has data for me to input that would be helpful. Thank you.
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:41 PM   #2
jon7009
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for that size of injector, minimum pulse width is too high for typical pump gas idle

'max base pulse width' is not a thing, you must mean for low ipw compensation max BPW adder?

What you want is low pulse width compensation, but nobody has provided that information and there is no documentation from Five-O regarding this, as such I wouldn't recommend their injectors. Even DW puts out low ipw comp info now, and I don't even recommend their stuff.

I'm idling around 0.40 base pulse width for idle at fully warm on 828cc injectors, lets take 828/1170 and we get 0.707, times 0.40 and we get 0.2828ms for the same fuel injection (if low ipw was not needed, which arguably it is) where you say minimum IPW is set to 0.50ms.

Either 'fake it til you make it' without low ipw comp using a very interesting VE table to compensate, or get the right information on low ipw adder and min. ipw, or switch to injectors that come with this data, as supplied.

saving a couple of bucks on injectors usually means problems
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:49 AM   #3
mrsaturn7085
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the info provided by "Five-O Motorsports" is inadequate... but feel free to post it up and we can see what we can do to help. What you need here is small IPW compensation data - whether that was included in the following bit of jargon is up to you to show us:

Quote:
FLOW CHART: Each set is sold with a complete and unique flow-data chart indicating individual static flow rates at 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 BAR.
As well as 3.0 BAR dynamic pulse testing for idle (15% duty-cycle) and 50% duty-cycle.
Along with a complete dead time off-set (latency) table. Flow matching was done with industry-standard equipment of the highest quality.
The tests were performed at varying temperatures to achieve realistic results.
Linear tuning with excellent low-end, and idle rpm.
Fiveo is the only fuel injector seller that can claim this level of technology.
jon went into more detail, but he's talking about the same thing.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:51 AM   #4
no694terry
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I'd like to find out more about these Five-O Black-ops. I been running stock dark blue sti injectors with the tips ground off to flow 950cc for 3 years now at 4 bar and it runs and idles beautifully on pump gas. But at 28psi on E85, im pushing 100% duty cycle so 1200+ injectors have been on the wish list a while. Sorry but after my experience with my injectors I just cant believe that the twice as expensive ID1300 are that much better. What i can believe is a bunch of tuners recommending them because the data is there and its a quick on and off the dyno and cash in the pocket.

I'm a little sad reading above, especially from yinz guys and your influence on the open source community
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:39 AM   #5
Homemade WRX
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From numerous Subaru tuners I know personally, they all recommend Injector Dynamics over others (and modded) due to the consistent quality and performance of the injectors.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:08 AM   #6
no694terry
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but $900 better, i mean that's a lot of lunchables for my kids
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:40 PM   #7
JSR84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
but $900 better, i mean that's a lot of lunchables for my kids

Well that depends... Do you want you want an injector that is easy to tune with excellent streetability ?

I know I for one am now an ID customer for life after my experience with their products and customer service. In the automotive world you get what you pay for, and its usually not cheap.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:48 PM   #8
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Ill go ahead and add that I was a moron when tuning these injectors at first. My maf scaling was completely wacky and when I switched to ID1300s it was still poor drivability so that was my fault. I set everything to ID's recommendations and stock maf scaling and it became so much better.

My thought process is that they would've been okay, but not as good as the id1300s. The ID injectors installed SOOOOO much easier, with no leaks after installing. The Five-O Injectors leaked quite a few times on me, even with good lube. They also got stuck on something in my fuel rails, whereas the ID injectors slipped right in and just worked.

I'd say spend the extra 400 dollars and get ID injectors. Or hell, FIC 1300s. They also have great data and drivability as well.

FWIW, the five-o injectors were well matched. 2 of them were 1300cc and 2 were 1298cc so that was good.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:08 AM   #9
no694terry
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thanks. I emailed them (fiveO) early yesterday for data and havent heard back. Might be a sign
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:45 AM   #10
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Buy injector dynamics. I wont even put a car on my dyno if it has five 0 injectors. Tuning low ipw with them is near impossible on most sets.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:47 PM   #11
ARKTiKPENGUiN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
thanks. I emailed them (fiveO) early yesterday for data and havent heard back. Might be a sign

Funnily enough, I emailed them over a year ago and never heard back from them. Pretty saddening if you ask me.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:18 AM   #12
no694terry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARKTiKPENGUiN View Post
Funnily enough, I emailed them over a year ago and never heard back from them. Pretty saddening if you ask me.
Kirk emailed me back the next day. He wasn't pitchy, just sent over what i asked for. Couple data sheets on the Black-op 1300's. I emailed Six Star Performance too, formally Moore Performance, who works with JRtuned, naturally they said ID or nothing

Black-ops 1300cc Data

Black-Ops 1300cc Calibration
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:07 PM   #13
ARKTiKPENGUiN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
Kirk emailed me back the next day. He wasn't pitchy, just sent over what i asked for. Couple data sheets on the Black-op 1300's. I emailed Six Star Performance too, formally Moore Performance, who works with JRtuned, naturally they said ID or nothing

Black-ops 1300cc Data

Black-Ops 1300cc Calibration
The battery voltage offsets don't seem to match in both of those which really puzzles me.

Also I spoke with phatron and he used to say get these, but now he says just go with ID since they provide much better data.
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