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Old 12-07-2021, 02:27 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Honestly, I can't get over the juvenile styling of the Corolla. As much as this car would tick pretty much all of the boxes, I don't think I could spend the kind of money that this will demand. I'm usually function over form and I can overlook minor styling issues that I don't quite like, but I think this is just one that I won't be able to get over.

Still eyeing up a third car in the 2-3 year timeline, but I think I'll be looking more towards a brz/86 or a used M2. Or maybe if they keep this around through a refresh things will improve?
Civic Type R is on one over-styled/boy racer extreme, with the Golf R on the under-styled/bland side. GR Corolla lands somewhere in the middle. Not that I want the Type R (because FF), but there aren't many hot hatches to compare, and it's the best of the FF offerings. Worth noting styling, even if it doesn't change does tend to become easier on the eyes over time, especially if it's a trend that catches on (Predator grill on Lexus products looked atrocious back in 2014, now it's comparatively reserved).

BRZ is a different animal, and the M2 is a completely different beast. If I didn't have kids/need four doors I wouldn't bother with the AWD hot hatches and I'd stick to RWD fun machines. I might even try to make a 2+2 work, but that would necessitate increasing the fleet.. The ~7k miles a year I do isn't really enough to merit having multiple cars (for me anyways). Maybe I can talk the wife into a GR Corolla, I'll get something 2+2, and we'll get a Ridgeline/something similar for family hauling & house duties; it's not the cheaper way by any stretch.
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Old 12-07-2021, 03:36 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Civic Type R is on one over-styled/boy racer extreme, with the Golf R on the under-styled/bland side. GR Corolla lands somewhere in the middle. Not that I want the Type R (because FF), but there aren't many hot hatches to compare, and it's the best of the FF offerings. Worth noting styling, even if it doesn't change does tend to become easier on the eyes over time, especially if it's a trend that catches on (Predator grill on Lexus products looked atrocious back in 2014, now it's comparatively reserved).

BRZ is a different animal, and the M2 is a completely different beast. If I didn't have kids/need four doors I wouldn't bother with the AWD hot hatches and I'd stick to RWD fun machines. I might even try to make a 2+2 work, but that would necessitate increasing the fleet.. The ~7k miles a year I do isn't really enough to merit having multiple cars (for me anyways). Maybe I can talk the wife into a GR Corolla, I'll get something 2+2, and we'll get a Ridgeline/something similar for family hauling & house duties; it's not the cheaper way by any stretch.
The CTR (outgoing gen) is definitely boy-racer and I'm not a huge fan of that, but honestly it bothers me less than just the overall design of the Corolla. I don't like any aspect of the Corolla styling. At least with the CTR I like aspects of the car but think that some of the add-ons are over-styled. With the Corolla, the headlights are like triple wide and just odd. The way the rear hatch slopes reminds me of the old mazda 3 hatchbacks as well. Wasn't a terrible design, but just outdated. The only other word I can use to define it is what I mentioned earlier, juvenile. It looks like a kids car. GR updates might make it look a little better, but it's just the overall styling that I don't like. I usually can overlook these things, but I'm struggling to with the Corolla. Just can't picture myself driving around in one, regardless of how good it is...

I'm eyeing up a 3rd car to be only driven by me. We have the highlander which is a great family car and perfect for driving to the mountains for biking and snowboarding. We're getting a Leaf as our practical commuter car. BRZ/M2 would be a car for just me, but I'm looking 2+2 so that I could still drop kids off at daycare on days when I take my car. Hence why I've tossed the BRZ and M2 into that list. I feel it'll be a tradeoff of speed vs cost/maintenance, and I'll just have to make the call when I get there. I'm still 2-3 years out from that decision I think. 2+2 format will only really work once both kids are forward facing. I might be able to flip our daughter forward if I convince my wife that the only time she'll be in the car is for daycare dropoff which is right around the corner from our house, but who knows... Either way, I'm going to let this car market settle down a little since I have no trade-in, so 2-3 years seems about right.
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Old 12-07-2021, 03:56 PM   #303
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The CTR (outgoing gen) is definitely boy-racer and I'm not a huge fan of that, but honestly it bothers me less than just the overall design of the Corolla. I don't like any aspect of the Corolla styling. At least with the CTR I like aspects of the car but think that some of the add-ons are over-styled. With the Corolla, the headlights are like triple wide and just odd. The way the rear hatch slopes reminds me of the old mazda 3 hatchbacks as well. Wasn't a terrible design, but just outdated. The only other word I can use to define it is what I mentioned earlier, juvenile. It looks like a kids car. GR updates might make it look a little better, but it's just the overall styling that I don't like. I usually can overlook these things, but I'm struggling to with the Corolla. Just can't picture myself driving around in one, regardless of how good it is...

I'm eyeing up a 3rd car to be only driven by me. We have the highlander which is a great family car and perfect for driving to the mountains for biking and snowboarding. We're getting a Leaf as our practical commuter car. BRZ/M2 would be a car for just me, but I'm looking 2+2 so that I could still drop kids off at daycare on days when I take my car. Hence why I've tossed the BRZ and M2 into that list. I feel it'll be a tradeoff of speed vs cost/maintenance, and I'll just have to make the call when I get there. I'm still 2-3 years out from that decision I think. 2+2 format will only really work once both kids are forward facing. I might be able to flip our daughter forward if I convince my wife that the only time she'll be in the car is for daycare dropoff which is right around the corner from our house, but who knows... Either way, I'm going to let this car market settle down a little since I have no trade-in, so 2-3 years seems about right.
Alright I gotcha, similar situation here, except we don't have that family hauler right now - My IS350 is pulling that duty & there just isn't enough space for long haul travel with a 7yo & 1yo and all the stuff that comes along with it. Wife's corolla iM hatch is good enough as a commuter, but it's too boring for her, even though it's a 6mt with a good chassis.

Likely waiting ~2 years as well; the market is a mess, chip shortage resulting in limited availability of cars, especially for picky people like me. A "PP2" mustang GT (or whatever the equivalent is, Mach 1 I think currently) might foot the bill if we go the 3-car route and figure out the 'family hauler' first; only way we'd make a move now though is if we could find something new in stock somewhere for MSRP (or under) and get decent money for either of our cars; her car is actually worth more than we paid for it back in 2017 which is nice, there just isn't anything available locally we want. Also I'd rather get through at least the winter in our current cars before making a move to a new car; rock chips, other drivers and all that other malarky hurt more in a new car than an existing one.

I think she would like the GR Corolla, and it would be a significant bump from her current corolla hatch, although it doesn't have the family hauler stuff under control, it would be more fun, and when I have to drive it I wouldn't mind. If I wind up being the primary in it, then it's roof racks & a tow bar to try and make it a family hauler and we keep doing the two vehicle thing for a bit longer. She already said she'd take my IS over her Corolla, so that one is the first to leave regardless.
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Old 12-07-2021, 05:46 PM   #304
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Interesting feedback concerning the design of CTR. I'm one of those who loves the current CTR, but despises the new Civic design. Looks so boring. Also the current Corolla looks great to me. As mentioned, not too much, but not too little.

Currently enjoying both of my versions of the GR Corolla on Forza Horizon 5.
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Old 12-07-2021, 06:16 PM   #305
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Honestly, I can't get over the juvenile styling of the Corolla.
Non-lux import performance cars are designed to appeal to people under 30 and people over 30 who never really grew up. Funky styling on this or the CTR is a feature not a bug.

If you want performance with refined styling you need to move to the Audi/MB/BMW/Porsche segment
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Old 12-07-2021, 06:59 PM   #306
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Non-lux import performance cars are designed to appeal to people under 30 and people over 30 who never really grew up. Funky styling on this or the CTR is a feature not a bug.

If you want performance with refined styling you need to move to the Audi/MB/BMW/Porsche segment
The BRZ/86 would fit into that category and they look great. Maybe a wider target demographic though.

I have a problem with econo-box styling when the price starts pushing upwards of 40k...
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Old 12-07-2021, 07:14 PM   #307
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I personally think it's the best overall looking compact hatchback available now and I think I've said that here before. Add on some GR bits and I'm sure it's going to look even better. Interior is pretty blah but I could overlook it if the rest of the package is great.
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Old 12-07-2021, 07:49 PM   #308
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The BRZ/86 would fit into that category and they look great. Maybe a wider target demographic though.

I have a problem with econo-box styling when the price starts pushing upwards of 40k...
Me too, for sure. I think it sucks very badly that you can't get a sporty 4 door that doesn't look like it came out of "The Fast and The Furious 12" for less than $50,000.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:31 PM   #309
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I personally think it's the best overall looking compact hatchback available now and I think I've said that here before. Add on some GR bits and I'm sure it's going to look even better. Interior is pretty blah but I could overlook it if the rest of the package is great.
Same. And that’s the XSE or whatever it’s called. Actually walked by one, the sport trim or whatever, 6 months ago and had to double take.

Meanwhile there isn’t a chance in hell I’d buy a CTR the way that thing looks. I’m not 16.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:36 PM   #310
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lol, this reminds me of an old acquaintance that is a financial planner. She loved the WRX, this is after seeing my 2005 STi, but would not buy one because "When I go to client homes, I do not want them to think I am a boy racer, this is why I got the Audi. I want them to think this person services well off clients."

Amazing how we let society influence us. I'd say this, if Nissan ever brought back the EVO I'll pick one up, wouldn't matter if had a Porsche or BMW or whatever in the garage.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:36 PM   #311
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Double Post.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:55 PM   #312
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Interesting feedback concerning the design of CTR. I'm one of those who loves the current CTR, but despises the new Civic design. Looks so boring. Also the current Corolla looks great to me. As mentioned, not too much, but not too little.

Currently enjoying both of my versions of the GR Corolla on Forza Horizon 5.
I like the current CTR also, although I like the Sport hatch even better since it’s a little toned down. Don’t really like the camo’d 11th gen CTR but we’ll see when it’s revealed. I’m not an AWD fan UNLESS it’s a real performance drivetrain like the GR4. That would make me pick it over the CTR.

I hate the impractical and ugly sloping trunk on the Corolla hatch but for a circuit pack I’ll overlook it.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:59 PM   #313
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lol, this reminds me of an old acquaintance that is a financial planner. She loved the WRX, this is after seeing my 2005 STi, but would not buy one because "When I go to client homes, I do not want them to think I am a boy racer, this is why I got the Audi. I want them to think this person services well off clients."

Amazing how we let society influence us. I'd say this, if Nissan ever brought back the EVO I'll pick one up, wouldn't matter if had a Porsche or BMW or whatever in the garage.
I think car people buy what they like rather than what looks appropriate for the job or whatever. People who do that aren’t true car enthusiasts so looking the part is a higher priority than getting the perfect car.

I’d get a lot of weird looks if I drove a CTR or GR Corolla but I’d still buy it.
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Old 12-07-2021, 10:20 PM   #314
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I think car people buy what they like rather than what looks appropriate for the job or whatever. People who do that aren’t true car enthusiasts so looking the part is a higher priority than getting the perfect car.

I’d get a lot of weird looks if I drove a CTR or GR Corolla but I’d still buy it.
I've driven modified mustangs, my wifes corolla, my in-laws frontier, my wrx wagon, & my is350 to client meetings - DOT's DGAF, neither do my private clients. "Status vehicle" malarkey doesn't really matter anymore, at least in my experience. The days of respecting a guy for showing up in a German sedan are over here, and at the very least, numbered in other parts of the country. I do, however, get judged for rolling up in my IS350 on construction sites; I try to land at the field trailer and walk out when I visit, comes off as a bit showey & douchey.
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Old 12-12-2021, 05:10 PM   #315
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I don't have any new info, BUT, since I'm seriously considering this vehicle, I've been trying to stay up-to-date on research and got to thinking about the car's potential wheel bolt pattern. From what I gathered, the current Corolla uses 5x100, and so does the GR Yaris. Since the GR Yaris uses a Corolla back half, I think it's safe to say that they won't change much on the GR Corolla and it'll keep its current bolt pattern of 5x100. Of course, they're (presumably) sending more power through a heavier vehicle when comparing the Corolla and Yaris, so Toyota could take this opportunity to increase the size to 5x114.3.

All this really boils down to is that I have 3 sets of wheels for my Impreza and if any of them clear Brembos then I'll be one happy camper.
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Old 12-12-2021, 07:43 PM   #316
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Diffs, diffs, diffs, say it with me, diffs!
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Old 12-12-2021, 09:30 PM   #317
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If they're smart they'll offer them as standard, or at the very least offer two trims: one with and one without.
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Old 12-13-2021, 06:24 AM   #318
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Default 2021 Toyota Yaris GR Puts the Hot Back in Hot Hatch

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2021 Toyota Yaris GR Puts the Hot Back in Hot Hatch


The noble, dirty sport of rally racing has been responsible for many roadgoing performance heroes. Cars such as the Audi Quattro, Lancia Delta Integrale, Ford Sierra RS and Escort RS, Toyota Celica GT4, and the Subaru WRX were all born of manufacturers having to build streetgoing version of their racers. But when the homologation requirement for a winning World Rally Championship car to be based on a purchasable vehicle ended in 1997, the link was broken.

Until now, that is. The Toyota Yaris GR isn't a roadgoing WRC car, but it does get impressively close, having been created by Gazoo Racing, Toyota's in-house motorsports arm. It is the first product born of Toyota boss Akio Toyoda's insistence that his company's return to topflight rallying and that motorsports should have direct relevance to the company's products.

We drove the Yaris GR in England, on damp and twisty roads almost perfectly suited to demonstrating the talents of this all-wheel-drive hot hatch. Sadly, there are no plans to bring the Yaris GR to the United States. Customers didn't exactly line up to buy the Mazda-based Yaris before it was quietly dropped from the lineup. But we will see a version of this all-wheel-drive powertrain in a U.S.-bound performance model better suited to American tastes.

There have been motorsport-inspired versions of the Yaris before—we drove the supercharged GRMN in 2018—but the GR is radically different. Beyond its name, the two-door GR has very little in common with the European Yaris or the former American Yaris. Although its wheelbase is the same, it sits on a Franken-platform version of Toyota architecture. The Yaris GR combines the regular Yaris's front-end structure with a rear section made using the GA-C architecture that underpins Corolla and C-HR. The multilink rear suspension has a radically widened rear track, plus there's an underfloor tunnel to package the rear axle's driveshaft. The only parts shared between GR and Euro Yaris are the headlights, tail lights, side mirrors, and the antenna on the roof.

The Yaris GRMN from a few years ago used a supercharged 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine tuned by Lotus. Despite losing a cylinder and some displacement, the GR's engine boasts more power than the GRMN's four. The turbocharged 1.6-liter three-cylinder is closely related to the one used in the junior World Rally Championship 2, and its 257 horsepower makes it the most powerful production three-pot in the world. No attempt has been made to hide its turbocharged character. It is hesitant and laggy at low revs with an elasticity to its power delivery as turbo boost builds. It sounds great—like many three-bangers, it almost has the aural character of a V-6 when worked hard—and it pulls keenly to a 7200-rpm redline.

The best rally cars have torque-juggling active center differentials and sequential gearboxes. Toyota has kept things simpler in the GR with a six-speed manual transmission, and it has one of the nicest shift actions we can remember from a transverse-engine layout. A hypoid gear diverts torque rearward to an electronically controlled clutch pack on the rear diff. This is similar in principle to other clutch-pack all-wheel-drive systems, but the GR is all-wheel drive all the time.

Toyota overdrives the rear axle, which allows the front-rear torque split to be biased by either slipping or engaging the rear clutch. There are three modes: Normal sends 60 percent of torque forward, Sport changes the balance and dispatches 70 percent rearward, and Track splits the torque equally. Open differentials are standard at each end, but an optional Circuit Pack swaps these for Torsen limited-slip differentials and also brings forged 18-inch alloy wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S summer rubber and a stiffer suspension.

Even equipped with the Circuit Pack, the GR doesn't have an excess of dynamic aggression. The steering is heavier than Toyota's normal generous level of assistance, but the GR doesn't have the darty responses that chassis engineers often use to indicate enthusiasm. The rack delivers proportional responses and makes accuracy easy, allowing the clever all-wheel-drive system to shine.

In Normal mode, the GR feels like an extra-agile hot hatch, being powered to the edge of front-end breakaway and then brought back onto a chosen line with a slightly eased throttle while still maintaining traction. Toyota admits the rear-biased Sport mode has been designed for loose surfaces as much as hard ones; it gives a definite back-end bias without turning the GR unruly. Despite its name, the 50/50 split in Track mode actually feels best suited for use on slippery British asphalt, combining huge grip with a near-perfect balance between each axle.

A firm ride manages to avoid being abusive. The GR doesn't have adaptive dampers or any switchable dynamic modes beyond its torque bias. At low speeds the Circuit Pack's stiffened springs did prove adept at magnifying surface imperfections, but as both velocity and loads rise the chassis is more pliant, handling even big bumps and camber changes without complaint. The brake pedal lacks firmness but is properly placed to allow heel-and-toe downshifts. The GR also gets a defeatable rev-matching system of unerring accuracy.

Despite the substantive differences between it and the European Yaris, the GR feels similar from the driver's seat. The instrumentation, switchgear, and dark plastics are all familiar. Equipment levels are good, including an 8.0-inch touchscreen, adaptive cruise control, auto-leveling LED headlights, and sports seats. The rear seat is much tighter than it would be in the regular Yaris, with access made awkward by limited headroom and the protruding driveshaft tunnel. And one strange omission: Unlike the regular Yaris, the GR doesn't have a rear wiper. That's something you'd expect from a rally car, and it's nice to have when the inevitable English rain begins to fall.

In an ironic twist of fate—given its reason for being—the one thing the Yaris GR will miss is a competition-spec sibling. Toyota's 2021 WRC entrant was set to be based on the Yaris GR, but COVID-19 caused testing to be halted. The team will be using the older four-door Yaris WRC for another season before the arrival of hybrid regulations in 2022 requires an all-new car. Still, it's good to know that Toyota cares about cars such as this one. Now let's hope the eventual U.S.-bound GR keeps the spirit that makes this Yaris feel so special.
Specifications

Specifications
2020 Toyota Yaris GR
VEHICLE TYPE
front-engine, all-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door hatchback
BASE PRICE (U.K.)
$33,350
ENGINE TYPE
turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 12-valve inline-3, aluminum block and head, port and direct fuel injection
Displacement
99 in3, 1618 cm3
Power
257 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque
266 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm
TRANSMISSION
6-speed manual
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 100.8 in
Length: 157.3 in
Width: 71.1 in
Height: 57.3 in
Curb weight (C/D est): 2900 lb
PERFORMANCE (C/D EST)
60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4 mile: 13.9 sec
Top speed: 143 mph

Car and driver 12/03/21
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Old 12-13-2021, 07:33 AM   #319
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Default Toyota Boss Takes a GR Yaris Out For A Spin...Literally

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Old 12-13-2021, 02:33 PM   #320
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Old 12-13-2021, 04:25 PM   #321
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Car and driver 12/03/21
Alternate article title “Toyota puts the disappointment into American Auto Enthusiast Hearts.”
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Old 12-13-2021, 11:28 PM   #322
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Wait for it...
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Old 12-29-2021, 08:19 AM   #323
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AWD, flares fenders confirmed.

Since we are living the darkest timeline, I just had a thought… what if Toyota pulls a ‘22 WRX and does unpainted flares. Please, no.
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Old 12-29-2021, 09:12 AM   #324
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Is anything expected from Toyota for Tokyo Auto Salon?
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Old 12-29-2021, 09:32 AM   #325
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AWD, flares fenders confirmed.

Since we are living the darkest timeline, I just had a thought… what if Toyota pulls a ‘22 WRX and does unpainted flares. Please, no.
Source for the AWD and Flared Fenders?
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