2022 Subaru WRX Official Announcement *Merged*

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Subaru has been behind for a while now. I'm not sure people didn't recognize with this previous STIs.

When the Evo and STI came to the US in 2003/2004, it was a 4 door sedan that could compete with and even outrun some of the big v8 muscle cars and european sports cars that cost twice as much.

The GR and VA STIs couldn't keep up with the current V8 muscle cars of its time and they sure as hell weren't leaving them behind on a road course. Hell, when the VA STI was out, Chevy had V6 Camaro's that were giving it a run for its money, and the V8 models were competing with cars like the R35 GTR lol.

I think a lot of the manufactures in Japan (not just Subaru) have gotten complacent in this regard. They, as well as many other companies are focusing on other things now. It seems like they're all putting much more R&D into tarted up performance SUV/CUVs than what their "enthusiast base" cares about.

Maybe Subaru doesn't care to spend any more time adding power or performance to the WRX since they know 90% of their owners are just gonna slam it on $600 coilovers with 225 linglong tires stretched over 18x11 wheels. That's probably why the car has plastic fenders too; now these kids can't baconator them fitting rep wheels for the mad ig clout

Perhaps the V-6s and V-8s of old were just that far behind? Fast foward to today and look at the other 4cyl offerings. They aren't some major leap ahead and, like you mention, don't hold up against the modern big boys. Perhaps there is a bit of a ceiling to that? How much power do you want in conjunction to how much do you want to pay for that power?

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[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Subaru has been behind for a while now. I'm not sure people didn't recognize with this previous STIs.

When the Evo and STI came to the US in 2003/2004, it was a 4 door sedan that could compete with and even outrun some of the big v8 muscle cars and european sports cars that cost twice as much.

The GR and VA STIs couldn't keep up with the current V8 muscle cars of its time and they sure as hell weren't leaving them behind on a road course. Hell, when the VA STI was out, Chevy had V6 Camaro's that were giving it a run for its money, and the V8 models were competing with cars like the R35 GTR lol.

The STI didn't increase in price over those 18 years while said muscle cars doubled in price. Just sayin...

[Pre]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Perhaps the V-6s and V-8s of old were just that far behind? Fast foward to today and look at the other 4cyl offerings. They aren't some major leap ahead and, like you mention, don't hold up against the modern big boys. Perhaps there is a bit of a ceiling to that? How much power do you want in conjunction to how much do you want to pay for that power?

Volkswagen sure continued their development. They updated their AWD system, continued engine development to develop a DIRECT injection EA888 which has been refined over the years. They also updated their interior over the years refining it as well into an Audi-like interior. Now their haptic snafu, is what it is, but that doesn’t nullify all the development they have done with the Golf R. In the end, of the STi, the Mk8 Golf R, which comes one way to NA, loaded only, maxed up, was not much more expensive than the loaded out STi. And prior to the Mk8, the Mk7 and 7.5 were about what a loaded up STi cost. So really there is no excuse for Subaru especially given the fact that in 2004 they were not as profitable as they were in 2015, or 2019.

Subaru OTOH, never offered a different motor on the STi compared to the first one they brought over. And in some ways, just made it worse, and the same could be said for their AWD system.

Meanwhile, 4 cylinder technology has advanced via a multitude of mfr’s. In fact a Minivan can keep up with the STi from a stop light. There is just no excuse for the past decade of lack of development and now no development. Boobaru’s Daddy just came along too and popped that collar. A loaded core is 39k, which is less expensive than a limited STi. And a CE is about the same price as a limited STi.

No more excuses.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Pre

Volkswagen sure continued their development. They updated their AWD system, continued engine development to develop a DIRECT injection EA888 which has been refined over the years. They also updated their interior over the years refining it as well into an Audi-like interior. Now their haptic snafu, is what it is, but that doesn't nullify all the development they have done with the Golf R. In the end, of the STi, the Mk8 Golf R, which comes one way to NA, loaded only, maxed up, was not much more expensive than the loaded out STi. And prior to the Mk8, the Mk7 and 7.5 were about what a loaded up STi cost. So really there is no excuse for Subaru especially given the fact that in 2004 they were not as profitable as they were in 2015, or 2019.

Subaru OTOH, never offered a different motor on the STi compared to the first one they brought over. And in some ways, just made it worse, and the same could be said for their AWD system.


Meanwhile, 4 cylinder technology has advanced via a multitude of mfr's. In fact a Minivan can keep up with the STi from a stop light. There is just no excuse for the past decade of lack of development and now no development. Boobaru's Daddy just came along too and popped that collar. A loaded core is 39k, which is less expensive than a limited STi. And a CE is about the same price as a limited STi.

No more excuses.

The current other offerings are not sooo much faster that that minivan you speak of is left in the dust. Like I said, there clearly is a ceiling manufacturers won't seem to go above. AWD? It holds it's own on the track. I'm just as disappointed that we haven't gotten something a bit more over the years; but, they HAVE been working on something. Does Subaru have shortcomings working the Boxer engine? I'd agree they do.As for "Boobaru's Daddy", I'm pretty sure they have a bit more money to mess around with. I dunno, maybe cause they sell twice as many cars just in the US annually than Subaru does globally?


And yet, they also limit production? While Subaru will trudge along making enough of what they have always made. A good all around fun car.

[rallly 4]

Stock manual Golf R ran a 3.9 0-60 and 12.8 1/4 mile at our local strip with zero mods besides super sticky street tires

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Stock manual Golf R ran a 3.9 0-60 and 12.8 1/4 mile at our local strip with zero mods besides super sticky street tires

Are you sure it wasn't DSG?

C&D did a 3.9 0-60 in a DSG mk8 R. The MT has less torque and, you know, isn't lightning quick shifting. VW states the MT around 5.5 seconds, which I realize can be conservative.

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/golf-r

[Pre]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

The current other offerings are not sooo much faster that that minivan you speak of is left in the dust. Like I said, there clearly is a ceiling manufacturers won't seem to go above. AWD? It holds it's own on the track. I'm just as disappointed that we haven't gotten something a bit more over the years; but, they HAVE been working on something. Does Subaru have shortcomings working the Boxer engine? I'd agree they do.As for "Boobaru's Daddy", I'm pretty sure they have a bit more money to mess around with. I dunno, maybe cause they sell twice as many cars just in the US annually than Subaru does globally?


And yet, they also limit production? While Subaru will trudge along making enough of what they have always made. A good all around fun car.

The GRC isn't as fast in a straight line as the Golf R, but it is a very well rounded vehicle in segment given recent reviews. It's light weight, for the class and looks an outstanding new offering. The power plant has direct and port injection, and a new AWD system with selectable power distribution. Incorrect on limiting production, totally incorrect. Yet again, you really have no understanding of other manufacturers. The factory where it is produced, Motomachi, is a specialized factory. The GRC takes ten times the amount of time to produce compared to a normal Corolla. "One too few" was a lame comment by a US marketing boy that works for Toyota. The reality is the Motomachi plant, the cars they assemble are more hand crafted than robot made so the process to make them is ten times as long. It isn't about limiting production, it's about how many vehicles can be produced there. And 6500 units per year are being sent to North America. How many STi's were sent over here all the years it was produced?

The Golf R can be a missile. The DSG in stock form already is. But either transmission can be handily modified for 400+ whp reliably as the EA888 has been continually developed. It's an iron block and stout. VAG has continually invested and improved their AWD system as well.

Both of these vehicles are the result of recent engineering and innovation. And your excuse is Booby's ball is small again? That's all you got? Nah, sorry dude, not with the "bestest month ever", "best year ever", over and over again. You're just being a Booby apologist yet again and a fanboi. They had 2 decades to do something and did little, then quit the game. Sorry you can't play or claim on both sides of the fence. There are no excuses.

[chanomatik]

Subaru not adopting both port and direct injection into their own engines is something I don't understand, nor may I ever.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Subaru not adopting both port and direct injection into their own engines is something I don't understand, nor may I ever.

Even VW dropped it. Harder to pass emissions.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Pre

The GRC isn't as fast in a straight line as the Golf R, but it is a very well rounded vehicle in segment given recent reviews. It's light weight, for the class and looks an outstanding new offering. The power plant has direct and port injection, and a new AWD system with selectable power distribution. Incorrect on limiting production, totally incorrect. Yet again, you really have no understanding of other manufacturers. The factory where it is produced, Motomachi, is a specialized factory. The GRC takes ten times the amount of time to produce compared to a normal Corolla. "One too few" was a lame comment by a US marketing boy that works for Toyota. The reality is the Motomachi plant, the cars they assemble are more hand crafted than robot made so the process to make them is ten times as long. It isn't about limiting production, it's about how many vehicles can be produced there. And 6500 units per year are being sent to North America. How many STi's were sent over here all the years it was produced?

The Golf R can be a missile. The DSG in stock form already is. But either transmission can be handily modified for 400+ whp reliably as the EA888 has been continually developed. It's an iron block and stout. VAG has continually invested and improved their AWD system as well.

Both of these vehicles are the result of recent engineering and innovation. And your excuse is Booby's ball is small again? That's all you got? Nah, sorry dude, not with the "bestest month ever", "best year ever", over and over again. You're just being a Booby apologist yet again and a fanboi. They had 2 decades to do something and did little, then quit the game. Sorry you can't play or claim on both sides of the fence. There are no excuses.

Oh geez. I mistakenly said they were "limiting" their numbers versus they will have limited numbers. Sue me. In 2020, the WRX line sold 21,000 cars. 27,000 in 2021. How many of those were STI? I do not know that. Subaru also has only 2 manufacturing facilities. Certainly limited to what they can put out; but, still more than Toyota and how many factories?

You do know that those record years gave them money to spend on other needed things right? Billion dollar factory upgrades(dunno if or how much they spend on Gunma). 2 new, BADLY needed headquarters. I had been in both. Billion dollar SGP development. All new car(Ascent). Hybrids. BEVs. New testing facilities in Japan. And even their low spots of lots of warranty issues. How much do they give to charity? How much are they helping schools? The great outdoors your planning to get to? Animals(you being a dog lover)? Surely you know they, like any company, have to do things like that. They are doing A LOT for their size.

And they WERE working on a new STI with a more modern engine. Just couldn't get it right in time. And, yes, I am on your side of that with the disappointment. I was "first" inline for the new STI. But, unlike many, I'll be happy with my GT. After I get my Outback though. These advanced AWD systems. Sure. Whatever. I've never claimed Subaru's system was the "best". Just the best at it's price point. Others are coming into play? OK. Sure. Still not some monumental difference. Subaru's system is tried and true. Always holds it's own.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Even VW dropped it. Harder to pass emissions.

Toyota didn't drop it. Are they having trouble passing emissions?

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Are you sure it wasn't DSG?

C&D did a 3.9 0-60 in a DSG mk8 R. The MT has less torque and, you know, isn't lightning quick shifting. VW states the MT around 5.5 seconds, which I realize can be conservative.

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/golf-r

No I know the owner it’s a 3 pedal 6 speed. That car is FAST.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Even VW dropped it. Harder to pass emissions.

I don’t know if the Euro market Mk8’s have port also but the 7 did. They dropped it for the US market for cost reasons. They’d rather had a loaded interior with all the bells and whistles than port + direct injection like everyone else got. I don’t think it had anything to do with emissions. It was cost.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Pre

I don't know if the Euro market Mk8's have port also but the 7 did. They dropped it for the US market for cost reasons. They'd rather had a loaded interior with all the bells and whistles than port + direct injection like everyone else got. I don't think it had anything to do with emissions. It was cost.

VW dropped it on euro cars in 2019 because they couldn't meet the WLTP emissions standards with it. Everyone jumps to cost as the reason why it wasn't included in the US, but considering they had to drop it in europe once emissions requirements jumped up, I'm betting it was to meet US emissions testing. US golf R's had a really scaled back interior as far as bells and whistles go compared to the european versions... So many things available there that weren't in the US... sunroof, memory seats, dot-matrix headlights, etc. Granted, they cost a lot more there...

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

No I know the owner it's a 3 pedal 6 speed. That car is FAST.

Very

Originally Posted by dwf137

VW dropped it on euro cars in 2019 because they couldn't meet the WLTP emissions standards with it. Everyone jumps to cost as the reason why it wasn't included in the US, but considering they had to drop it in europe once emissions requirements jumped up, I'm betting it was to meet US emissions testing. US golf R's had a really scaled back interior as far as bells and whistles go compared to the european versions... So many things available there that weren't in the US... sunroof, memory seats, dot-matrix headlights, etc.

I think for the mk8 R we only lost the dot-matrix lights, cool tail lights, ak exhaust option and the phone cubby cover. But we gained a pedal...

[umscooby]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

The STI didn't increase in price over those 18 years while said muscle cars doubled in price. Just sayin...

Huh? In Nov. 2004 I purchased my '05 STi brand new from the dealer for $30,800. A new WRX has cost more than that for the past decade. Not sure where you are coming up with this.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by umscooby

Huh? In Nov. 2004 I purchased my '05 STi brand new from the dealer for $30,800. A new WRX has cost more than that for the past decade. Not sure where you are coming up with this.

MSRP on the 05 was $33k. The last base STIs hit $37k but were $35k forever, only jumped a bit the last couple years with the bigger brakes and inflation increase. The base model MSRP never got close to $40k in that whole time.

[fathatch]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

MSRP on the 05 was $33k. The last base STIs hit $37k but were $35k forever, only jumped a bit the last couple years with the bigger brakes and inflation increase. The base model MSRP never got close to $40k in that whole time.

Exactly, price for the base model has increased less than 20% since 2004.

A 2004 with a radio was 32,600~. A 2021 STI Base was 38,170. For comparison, the price of a base civic sedan has increased 50% since then.

The exchange for stagnant performance capability was essentially a a discounted STI.
(Average salaries in the US have increased at least 56% since then - Using AWI)

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Perhaps the V-6s and V-8s of old were just that far behind? Fast foward to today and look at the other 4cyl offerings. They aren't some major leap ahead and, like you mention, don't hold up against the modern big boys. Perhaps there is a bit of a ceiling to that? How much power do you want in conjunction to how much do you want to pay for that power?

I'm not like a large chunk of the Subaru population that screeches "NeEdS aT LeAst 450hP bRo!". If they were to be releasing an STI for this generation, I'd say that 330-350 would be just fine; assuming they made improvements to the chassis. More structural rigidity, better suspension, more mechanical grip, and so on.

The car has definitely improved over the years, but one of the major factors of why it was so appealing has been somewhat lost. It used to compete on a performance level with cars that cost nearly 2x as much. Now there are cars that cost the same or less and can give the STI a run for its money, like a Veloster N.

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

The STI didn't increase in price over those 18 years while said muscle cars doubled in price. Just sayin...

From 2005 to 2018, an MSRP increase of about $7,000 for the STI, and $9,000 for the Mustang GT. Camaro was gone in like 2002? And then came back around 2010, at which point the SS was right at like 31-32k starting and then still sub 40k in 2018.

I've commended Subaru multiple times here and to others that they managed to not completely blow out the price on the car over the year. But now here we are watching automatic WRXs with a leather interior being listed with a $40,000+ MSRP lol.

[Snow Drift]

[carsebuco]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

That's what I used to tell my wife, until she got tired of my chit

[Straight6]

That's awesome .

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by carsebuco

That's what I used to tell my wife, until she got tired of my chit

*golf clap*

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

From 2005 to 2018, an MSRP increase of about $7,000 for the STI, and $9,000 for the Mustang GT.

2005 STI MSRP: $32,500
2018 STI MSRP: $36,000

Difference = $3,500

2005 Mustang GT MSRP: $25,000
2018 Mustang GT MSRP: $35,000

Difference = $10,000

2000 Mustang GT MSRP: $21,000
2023 Mustang GT MSRP: $38,000

Difference = $17,000

[DougNuts]

The Mustang GT also picked up 160hp from 2005 to 2018. Did the STI even get a new engine in that period?