2023 Subaru Outback (MCR)

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I think it's funny trying to compare one car design to another and especially to race cars. Can you show me another car that has the exact same lines as a WRX to benefit from any particular aero design done to the WRX? And this even goes for other Subaru models. Not the same lines at all between them. "not a damn thing" when shown the proof. Hmmmm Just because the look is hated doesn't make it not viable.

A car doesn't need the "exact same lines" for the theory to apply. If the texture of fender flares actually increased car stability, it would show up on cars that are seeking for every possible advantage that they can get. Not on some mall parking lot destined sedan with a cvt in it's top tier model.

The "proof"? one random image isn't proof for me. It doesn't tell the whole story. they probably could have achieved better results by not screwing on plastic fenders and instead providing appropriately molded fenders. Someone got some cool science experiment and got some cool images to show, but that doesn't specifically mean anything. Yes, golf-ball texture can change air flow, but is it actually beneficial? Where is the data that actually demonstrates "better stability". What does that even mean? Is it a lower drag coefficient for the entire car? More downforce?


I'm skeptical by nature. Nothing in motorsports points to golf-ball texture increasing high-speed stability of a vehicle, and I don't think Subaru, a non-motorsports brand, has suddenly come up with some groundbreaking idea, so I'm not buying it.

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[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dwf137

A car doesn't need the "exact same lines" for the theory to apply. If the texture of fender flares actually increased car stability, it would show up on cars that are seeking for every possible advantage that they can get. Not on some mall parking lot destined sedan with a cvt in it's top tier model.

The "proof"? one random image isn't proof for me. It doesn't tell the whole story. they probably could have achieved better results by not screwing on plastic fenders and instead providing appropriately molded fenders. Someone got some cool science experiment and got some cool images to show, but that doesn't specifically mean anything. Yes, golf-ball texture can change air flow, but is it actually beneficial? Where is the data that actually demonstrates "better stability". What does that even mean? Is it a lower drag coefficient for the entire car? More downforce?



I'm skeptical by nature. Nothing in motorsports points to golf-ball texture increasing high-speed stability of a vehicle, and I don't think Subaru, a non-motorsports brand, has suddenly come up with some groundbreaking idea, so I'm not buying it.

It's not some sort of ground breaking tech. It's just that they decided to utilitize it. Others don't. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. Just cause YOU don't want to believe it. Even after given the proof from Subaru's own development testing......that you don't believe because, again, it's something you don't like, so it ain't true. Is it "significant". That's a debatable thing depending on the goal.


And being skeptical is fine. However, how far do you go? You need Subaru to invite you to their facilities to actually show you their reasoning?

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

And being skeptical is fine. However, how far do you go? You need Subaru to invite you to their facilities to actually show you their reasoning?

Subaru doesn't have to do anything, and obviously won't. The impact that this texture makes is infinitesimal. This surface texture makes a difference on a golf ball because it weighs practically nothing. Small fenders on a 3300lb+ vehicle... highly likely that there is no measurable impact. This is a pointless conversation though, so I'll bow out. Enjoy the fenders!

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

It's not some sort of ground breaking tech. It's just that they decided to utilitize it. Others don't. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. Just cause YOU don't want to believe it. Even after given the proof from Subaru's own development testing......that you don't believe because, again, it's something you don't like, so it ain't true. Is it "significant". That's a debatable thing depending on the goal.


And being skeptical is fine. However, how far do you go? You need Subaru to invite you to their facilities to actually show you their reasoning?

Whenever I read these types of posts it reminds me of something. Oh yeah...

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

Whenever I read these types of posts it reminds me of something. Oh yeah...

Rationalization equates to cult. Got it.

But, I'll own it. Not like it was a secret.

[4S-TURBO]

Next you'll tell us the SPT isn't a CVT and it's an all new performance transmission.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

Next you'll tell us the SPT isn't a CVT and it's an all new performance transmission.

Nope. It's just a way to distinguish it from LCVT, HTCVT, and then SPT. Yes, I thought it was odd naming considering SPT parts; but, also hated that. Shoulda just brought STI parts.

[Russ_G93]

Wasnt there some kind of hatch that someone posted, about how these two little nose pieces at the tail end of the crossbar rails helped with MPGs or something lol

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Nope. It's just a way to distinguish it from LCVT, HTCVT, and then SPT. Yes, I thought it was odd naming considering SPT parts; but, also hated that. Shoulda just brought STI parts.

They're all a TR690. To the cult it's an SPT. Wooo000oooOO000ooooo

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Wasnt there some kind of hatch that someone posted, about how these two little nose pieces at the tail end of the crossbar rails helped with MPGs or something lol

2012-2016 Impreza roof rails.......1MPG

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

They're all a TR690. To the cult it's an SPT. Wooo000oooOO000ooooo

Are they supposed to give a new number each time they modify it?

Also, textured aero on a Bugatti?

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

Or, even better, textured aero on a tiny car?

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

Best on a Cayman tho.

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

They're all a TR690. To the cult it's an SPT. Wooo000oooOO000ooooo

You gonna seriously sit there and say those three are the "same" transmission.

Seriously

Please say you are just trolling.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Also, textured aero on a Bugatti?

Or, even better, textured aero on a tiny car?

Best on a Cayman tho.

The scale of the texture in all of these examples is orders of magnitude different...

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

You gonna seriously sit there and say those three are the "same" transmission.

Seriously

Please say you are just trolling.

TR580

2013-2020 Legacy/Outback 2.5L NA
2012-2020 Impreza 2.0L NA
2013-2020 Crosstrek 2.0L NA
2014-2020 Forester 2.5L NA

Maximum torque 250Nm


TR690

2010-2012 Legacy/Outback 2.5L NA
2015-2019 Legacy/Outback 3.6L NA
2014-2020 Forester 2.0L Turbo
2015-2020 WRX 2.0L Turbo
2019-2020 Ascent
2020 Legacy/Outback 2.4L Turbo
2021 WRX 2.4L Turbo
2022 Levorg 2.4L Turbo

Maximum torque 400Nm

They only got two CVT transmissions. Low torque and high torque. Adding a cooler and new TCM shift logic doesn't change that. Why not rename the transmission for each application if shift logic or coolers are SO important to differentiating the product?

Before the CVT there was the 4EAT and the 5EAT. Subaru didn't bother differentiating the naming scheme to highlight differences in each application or generation. And there were significant differences in the 20 years the 4EAT was in service. The 5EAT had upgraded tuning with paddles and downshift blips, but they still called it a 5EAT. Sportshift and Direct Drive were features on some of the transmissions put in some of the models, but they didn't rename the transmission itself.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dwf137

The scale of the texture in all of these examples is orders of magnitude different...

Different cars. Different applications? Com'on dude.


So, now trying to pick it apart a different way now that it has been shown Subaru isn't the first to utilize it on a car. Just WHERE they utilize it?

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

They only got two CVT transmissions. Low torque and high torque. Adding a cooler and new TCM shift logic doesn't change that. Why not rename the transmission for each application if shift logic or coolers are SO important to differentiating the product?

Before the CVT there was the 4EAT and the 5EAT. Subaru didn't bother differentiating the naming scheme to highlight differences in each application or generation. And there were significant differences in the 20 years the 4EAT was in service. The 5EAT had upgraded tuning with paddles and downshift blips, but they still called it a 5EAT. Sportshift and Direct Drive were features on some of the transmissions put in some of the models, but they didn't rename the transmission itself.

Okie dokie dude. You go replace an Ascent transmission with a Crosstrek transmission and let me know how that works out.

And if you were to go to a retailer and order a transmission, you aren't going to ask for a "TR580" or a "TR690". They all have different part numbers. Legacy and Outback have different part numbers, cause some of the internals are different. Just the difference between the LCVT to the HTCVT and SPT are a bit more. Not really that hard to understand.

[4S-TURBO]

No I would ask for the SPT and it will rain high performance.

But good job not reading my post at all.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

No I would ask for the SPT and it will rain high performance.

But good job not reading my post at all.

It
is
a
way
to
distinguish
the
major
differences


geez dude.


They didn't before.......so, they shouldn't now? Really. Com'on dude. We understand you are upset at some letters. Move on.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

It
is
a
way
to
distinguish
the
major
differences


geez dude.


They didn't before.......so, they shouldn't now? Really. Com'on dude. We understand you are upset at some letters. Move on.

What major differences? They are all TR690 units. You mean minor differences.

And per your own reasoning, why would they need to differentiate with some letters? Your own method for telling the units apart for each application is part numbers not names. Which is why they never bothered before. So why now? For one car? The differences between the TR690 in the current WRX and the new WRX are no more significant as the TR690 in the Ascent or Legacy XT. The VIN will tell the parts people which TR690 goes with each model. SPT carries zero significance other than marketing woo for Cult Subaru.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by dwf137

It's the defenders of the texture that made up the MPG benefits. The rest of us are just rolling our eyes because we see through the bs. Show me some actual race cars that utilize this, and maybe there's a story.... The fact that they're not putting it on all of their cars is telling that it's not doing a damn thing.

BRZ has it. it's 2 for 2 on recent Subaru sports cars.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

What major differences? They are all TR690 units. You mean minor differences.

And per your own reasoning, why would they need to differentiate with some letters? Your own method for telling the units apart for each application is part numbers not names. Which is why they never bothered before. So why now? For one car? The differences between the TR690 in the current WRX and the new WRX are no more significant as the TR690 in the Ascent or Legacy XT. The VIN will tell the parts people which TR690 goes with each model. SPT carries zero significance other than marketing woo for Cult Subaru.

So, by your logic, all Subaru's CVTs can be interchanged with no problems. Cause the differences are sooo minor.

[chanomatik]

No, he's saying because they don't have different version numbers, they're the same transmission.

So by his logic, 2017 Impreza and 2018 Crosstrek should've been built on SGP1, 2019 Forester should've been SGP2, and so on and so forth. But since they're all built on SGP then they're the same car, Impreza to Ascent to WRX.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

No, he's saying because they don't have different version numbers, they're the same transmission.

So by his logic, 2017 Impreza and 2018 Crosstrek should've been built on SGP1, 2019 Forester should've been SGP2, and so on and so forth. But since they're all built on SGP then they're the same car, Impreza to Ascent to WRX.

OOHHHH!!!!!! Got it!!!

[JP Chestnut]

Sorry, Subaru -- I'm out. Mediocre quality. ****ty dealerships. Ugly designs. **** it. Goofy superfans. Audi, here I come.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Sorry, Subaru -- I'm out. Mediocre quality. ****ty dealerships. Ugly designs. **** it. Goofy superfans. Audi, here I come.

There ya go! I was disappointed you not making an insult. Well, surprised really.