2023 Subaru Outback (MCR)

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by dwf137

The scale of the texture in all of these examples is orders of magnitude different...

So I guess they do even less on those cars than on the wrx. Got it.

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[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Sorry, Subaru -- I'm out. Mediocre quality. ****ty dealerships. Ugly designs. **** it. Goofy superfans. Audi, here I come.

Don’t let the door hit yah. I’m happy for you that you are ending your misery.

[D-Rodman]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Sorry, Subaru -- I'm out. Mediocre quality. ****ty dealerships. Ugly designs. **** it. Goofy superfans. Audi, here I come.

Don’t forget to order a code reader, check engine light is in your new Audi near future.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by D-Rodman

Don’t forget to order a code reader, check engine light is in your new Audi near future.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

my last 2 subaru's went back to the dealer a combined dozen times for warranty work. my current 2 audi's? zero. it's not 2003 anymore.

[chanomatik]

Subaru and Audi don't even compete with each other, so he was in the wrong place to begin with.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Subaru and Audi don't even compete with each other, so he was in the wrong place to begin with.

His lease is probably up. He's been a formulaic s*** poster since his very first post on NASIOC. What a miserable sack.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

my last 2 subaru's went back to the dealer a combined dozen times for warranty work. my current 2 audi's? zero. it's not 2003 anymore.

And to replace a knob in the Audi’s is more than whatever work was done to those 2 Subarus.

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

And to replace a knob in the Audi’s is more than whatever work was done to those 2 Subarus.

I don't care. I'm done dealing with the horrific heat soak on hot days, the terrible driveability, the narrow powerband, the junk interior and radio, the poor high speed tracking, etc just to save a bit of money. Life is too short to drive a miserable pos just to save $200/month.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

I don't care. I'm done dealing with the horrific heat soak on hot days, the terrible driveability, the narrow powerband, the junk interior and radio, the poor high speed tracking, etc just to save a bit of money. Life is too short to drive a miserable pos just to save $200/month.

You’re going off of emotions based on your anecdotal experiences. Which is fine and understandable to you specifically. But, ok, take a breath, sit back and be objective. You really think even after all the ****posting and criticism on this site we all gravitated to Subaru and joining Nasioc because we had miserable pos experiences with Subarus?? Cmon man…..Subaru has a cult following for a reason whether you like it or not you must admit that a ton of people enjoy their cars whether current or past.

As for reliability, it’s the same case. I’m sure some dude out there somewhere had a Subaru and had a bad experience and then got a Land Rover and is feeling just like you because he hasn’t had any issues with it (so far)….ok cool, but you’re gonna tell me Land Rover is more reliable? Cmon. Be objective. Overall Subaru is reliable, definitely more than the VW group of products….

[Pre]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

my last 2 subaru's went back to the dealer a combined dozen times for warranty work. my current 2 audi's? zero. it's not 2003 anymore.

But it is still 2003 according to the super fans.

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

You're going off of emotions based on your anecdotal experiences. Which is fine and understandable to you specifically. But, ok, take a breath, sit back and be objective. You really think even after all the ****posting and criticism on this site we all gravitated to Subaru and joining Nasioc because we had miserable pos experiences with Subarus?? Cmon man***8230;..Subaru has a cult following for a reason whether you like it or not you must admit that a ton of people enjoy their cars whether current or past.

As for reliability, it's the same case. I'm sure some dude out there somewhere had a Subaru and had a bad experience and then got a Land Rover and is feeling just like you because he hasn't had any issues with it (so far)***8230;.ok cool, but you're gonna tell me Land Rover is more reliable? Cmon. Be objective. Overall Subaru is reliable, definitely more than the VW group of products***8230;.

I'm basing my opinion on facts that are widely known and 100% objective. name another modern car that gets heat soaked as bad as a turbo subaru on a hot day sitting at a red light, just 1.while you are at it, name another car that has gotten slower like the wrx and sti has.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

I don't care. I'm done dealing with the horrific heat soak on hot days, the terrible driveability, the narrow powerband, the junk interior and radio, the poor high speed tracking, etc just to save a bit of money. Life is too short to drive a miserable pos just to save $200/month.

I certainly won't disagree with you if that's how you feel. My questions are, however.....how long into your experience was it/did it become "miserable" and then why you didn't leave then?


I mean, Subaru gave us 2 great products a LOOOONG time ago. They haven't improved significantly, speed wise, in all that time. There's no arguing that. And I'm on the side that's bummed/upset about that. Just wondering if it was sooo "miserable", WHY would you have stuck around soo long?

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I certainly won't disagree with you if that's how you feel. My questions are, however.....how long into your experience was it/did it become "miserable" and then why you didn't leave then?


I mean, Subaru gave us 2 great products a LOOOONG time ago. They haven't improved significantly, speed wise, in all that time. There's no arguing that. And I'm on the side that's bummed/upset about that. Just wondering if it was sooo "miserable", WHY would you have stuck around soo long?

I stuck with subaru for so long because of the resale and because the awd "performance" market is fairly small. I was also younger and a ****ty ride and refinement didn't bother me as much as they do now. I was also doing the same thing as many people do here and assumed the germans still built unreliable crap like they did in the early 2000's. I went outside of my comfort zone and got a 2018 golf R just because I was so sick of the driveability and heat soak of my 2016 wrx. If it sucked, I was willing to cut my losses and dump it and chalk it up as a lesson learned. instead it made me feel like an idiot for sticking with subaru for so long. there are a LOT better cars out there these days than what subaru is shoving down our throats.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

I stuck with subaru for so long because of the resale and because the awd "performance" market is fairly small. I was also younger and a ****ty ride and refinement didn't bother me as much as they do now. I was also doing the same thing as many people do here and assumed the germans still built unreliable crap like they did in the early 2000's. I went outside of my comfort zone and got a 2018 golf R just because I was so sick of the driveability and heat soak of my 2016 wrx. If it sucked, I was willing to cut my losses and dump it and chalk it up as a lesson learned. instead it made me feel like an idiot for sticking with subaru for so long. there are a LOT better cars out there these days than what subaru is shoving down our throats.

I'm assuming you are referencing the STI mostly here. And yes, I'll agree at the price the STI had gotten to, there are other good options. But, with the WRX, what out there is better?



Now remember with me. MY position is that nothing out there gives you everything a Subaru does at the price Subaru offers it. Want something "better"? You WILL have to pay more for it. And this is specifically to new pricing.


But, again. No argument here. You don't like it? Hopefully you'll find something that will put, and keep, a smile on your face.

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I'm assuming you are referencing the STI mostly here. And yes, I'll agree at the price the STI had gotten to, there are other good options. But, with the WRX, what out there is better?



Now remember with me. MY position is that nothing out there gives you everything a Subaru does at the price Subaru offers it. Want something "better"? You WILL have to pay more for it. And this is specifically to new pricing.


But, again. No argument here. You don't like it? Hopefully you'll find something that will put, and keep, a smile on your face.

you are right about the price. there was really nothing to compete with the wrx (if you take it easy on options) up until the current gen. that was especially true with my 2011 wrx which was actually pretty quick out of the box. since then they have just gotten slower and most recently, more expensive. I am willing to spend more these days but if I had a lower budget, i'd have to make sacrifices and buy a car that compromises some things. that being said, subaru can and should do better. start by ditching the top mount and move to a front mount like everyone else is doing. it would make a huge difference on hot days.

[chanomatik]

I always wondered about the TMIC vs FMIC thing, and I always forget the answer and end up re-researching it each time.

Which Subaru intercooler has better airflow? A top mount intercooler will be more efficient with airflow than a front-mounted, with the only reason being the shorter path from your turbochargers to intake. You'll get air quicker and sooner, but don't confuse this with lag, as it is pressurized.

But right before that they state:

Top-mounted coolers are definitely hotter than other types of aftermarket parts being close to the engine, so they risk getting damaged sooner with the close proximity, or if something happens during installation or maintenance on the car itself.

Even when driving (and not idling), a top mount intercooler may not be able to keep up with cooling charge temps that front-mounted intercoolers would be able to handle with ease. Add a few performance modifications into the picture, and you've got enough heat under the hood to fry an egg on your intercooler. This is not ideal for performance, so a front mount intercooler gets the nod in this category.

In a nutshell, a front mount intercooler is a better option for those who want to keep their engine as cool as possible, even in higher temperature weather. It's also an efficient way of cooling your car down because air can reach all three dimensions without losing too much energy in the process. Top-mount intercoolers have no such luxury however, so if you value performance over anything else, go with this type instead. Make sure it won't obstruct visibility or harm other components when installed properly.

MAPerformance Breakdown Article

All I know is Toyota now makes the exact car I've been waiting for and one that doesn't have to be modified to get these performance features. Unfortunately everybody and their family seems to want one too. Sad times we live in.

[Russ_G93]

I have an Audi. If you can afford it, then thats cool. I think the costs for maintenance and Service is a joke, just like any European vehicle. My Legacy GT back in 08, did everything this car can. I don't really enjoy the front bias, but its a comfortable car to drive.

If not a WRX, an S3 will do all that you want. Starting at 44,000 usd. It has the same capability and performance as that of a car starting at 30,000. Audi's are great, my mother has one too. But do I plan on getting another? Heh.. Nawh.

[subyski]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

I always wondered about the TMIC vs FMIC thing, and I always forget the answer and end up re-researching it each time.



But right before that they state:


MAPerformance Breakdown Article

All I know is Toyota now makes the exact car I've been waiting for and one that doesn't have to be modified to get these performance features. Unfortunately everybody and their family seems to want one too. Sad times we live in.

But does a top-mount make sense now that the turbo is mounted at the bottom of the engine? At this point, the top mount/scoop is nostalgic and a symbol of the WRX. But ditching the top mount doesn't seem to be in Subaru's cards as they have all the fancy intercooler ducting in their other XT models. For those vehicles, a front mount makes sense.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by subyski

But does a top-mount make sense now that the turbo is mounted at the bottom of the engine? At this point, the top mount/scoop is nostalgic and a symbol of the WRX. But ditching the top mount doesn't seem to be in Subaru's cards as they have all the fancy intercooler ducting in their other XT models. For those vehicles, a front mount makes sense.

Ya, a front mount with a rotated intake manifold where the throttle is at the front makes more sense with the front mounted turbo. I would contemplate a setup like that if I ever went full 100% non street car.

One thing about front mounts the average joe doesn't talk about is that you block some radiator flow with a front mount, increasing engine temps. This is why you see time attack Subaru's and such running alternate location radiators. I'm keeping a top mount for a couple reasons including this, but I'm also using a ventilated hood with lots of under hood airflow and lots of thermal protection around the turbo and intercooler too. Also only running one radiator fan because no A/C. Temps are extremely cool at the track so far.

/Off-topic

[Calamity Jesus]

On that note: What sense does a flat engine make for Subaru these days. They're just anchors that have been dragging them down since quirky stopped selling in the late 00s. If Subaru was building competent inline engines they'd still be on my radar today.

[subtig]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

You know, it actually looks better than the Wilderness edition.

Sorry, man, but I don't think so

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by subtig

Sorry, man, but I don't think so

The wilderness looks like they just didn't bother to paint the front bumper skin. The 2023 at least looks like a styling element.

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

The wilderness looks like they just didn't bother to paint the front bumper skin. The 2023 at least looks like a styling element.

[Russ_G93]

Since they're using painted legacy premium wheels from 6 years ago, looks like I might make a buck off the spare set under the house

[subyski]

I am surprised they updated the looks on the Outback what seems fairly early but keeping the Wilderness with the current headlights and grille. Sure, the Wilderness will eventually get updated but makes a weird staggered production looks in the lineup.