New WRX and new engine on the way

[Brahmzy]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Subjective. The SPT is quite good.

Absolutely not subjective. It's dog ****.

Compared to almost every other transmission, it's wretched.

Subaru HAS to figure this out if they will ever be taken seriously.

Go back to the MF'n drawing board now, so you can be somewhere down the road. Keep the CVTs for the low-powered econo-crap if you must.

The ZF8 in my M2 is mind-blowingly good, and fast. An extension of my mind - especially with the CS/CSL flash. Best transmission I've ever owned. Very, very close to DCT, perhaps better in some ways. Insane, paired with the I6TT S58

The new 9sp auto in my Y63 is also a great example of a killer modern auto, paired with a badass V6TT.

Subaru has to engineer a real transmission. They keep doubling down on the CVT and it will always be so far behind from a performance, capability, reliability and experience perspective.

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[bugatti0628]

Based on what they did with the S210 SPT, they won't build a brand new automatic for performance applications until the new wrx or STI come out.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Absolutely not subjective. It's dog ****.

Compared to almost every other transmission, it's wretched.

Subaru HAS to figure this out if they will ever be taken seriously.

Go back to the MF'n drawing board now, so you can be somewhere down the road. Keep the CVTs for the low-powered econo-crap if you must.

The ZF8 in my M2 is mind-blowingly good, and fast. An extension of my mind - especially with the CS/CSL flash. Best transmission I've ever owned. Very, very close to DCT, perhaps better in some ways. Insane, paired with the I6TT S58

The new 9sp auto in my Y63 is also a great example of a killer modern auto, paired with a badass V6TT.

Subaru has to engineer a real transmission. They keep doubling down on the CVT and it will always be so far behind from a performance, capability, reliability and experience perspective.

How many laps in anger have you driven one?
How many failures have you even heard of?


I am CERTAINLY not saying it's the best transmission. OR even the best transmission for a Subaru. I just said it is quite good. The HTCVT was pretty good when you worked around the couple issues it would have. Seems Subaru worked out those issues. No one has been in here telling horror stories of them failing. But, that could also mean that really none of the owners are pushing it. But it's telling when you go 7 years hearing the shortcomings of a pushed HTCVT to virtually nothing on the SPT. And then they've enhanced it even further for the S210.....

[bugatti0628]

I agree with what you are saying about the SPT but would they stick with the SPT for the wrx going forward and keep enhancing it. Development of the S210 allowed them to further increase the torque the SPT can handle safely and free up the torque for the MT as well. We don't yet know if the STI will return but is it possible they are working on a new automatic specifically for either a new STI or different high performance vehicle

[Russ_G93]

I agree as well as far as the CVT/SPT not really being taken seriously from a performance stand point, however the SPT really does not cause people issues. A buddy of mine has a 23' with around 35k miles, hasn't given his wife any issues. It would be nice to see SPT - Like Programming added to all of the CVT/turbo models. Acts like an 8-spd. Subaru would need to do something like overhaul the 5EAT into something like a 7/8EAT in order to properly fit/match up with the Active Torque Split system - Which would make it similar to Toyota's DAT.
100% though, its been, how long? Still have not seen any performance Data of the S210. If it performs, well great! Show us, otherwise its not like anyone would be hyped about another SPT offering.

[mcarb002]

At the end of the day, this will more than likely be a JDM model only. Or at least a Japan first model and come here in following years. For Subaru to reveal it in Japan instead of doing it in a US car show, it’s an indication.

[bugatti0628]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

At the end of the day, this will more than likely be a JDM model only. Or at least a Japan first model and come here in following years. For Subaru to reveal it in Japan instead of doing it in a US car show, it’s an indication.

not necessarily, if it is just a concept of a car they intend to show us, a pre-production version of that concept can still be shown at a US car show in the future.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by bugatti0628

not necessarily, if it is just a concept of a car they intend to show us, a pre-production version of that concept can still be shown at a US car show in the future.

Based on the language and context of the Subaru exec and article, it’s not a pure concept car like the WRX Viziv Performance Concept was. So it will likely be a near-production or pre-production model. Everything indicates they'll be teasing a real car that's going into production.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

The biggest reason for that was the CUSTOMER. They complained there was no shift feel. Soooo, Subaru responded.

Yeah, I get that, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea... The theoretical benefit of a CVT is being able to push the engine to it's peak output and keep it there without shifts. Pretty sure this was born out with earlier versions of the CVT WRX in that staying in auto mode was always faster than any "gear switching" mode.

[Russ_G93]

Controversial opinion, the SPT in sport sharp is actually a pleasing experience, Yeah its no Evo MR - could be quicker, but it does a good job of running the rpms like that of a geared trans. For how long? Still finding out, we'll see once a 22' SPT has like 90-120k miles on it. I don't think the SPT was made with mileage in mind, as my buddy says his wife gets a little under 20mpgs around town. Though I still stand by them exploring a 7/8EAT.

[RobM]

Not sure how that's controversial. The HTCVT in S# has 8 simulated gears in auto mode. Sport has 6. If one wants "gear" feelings and sounds, then put it in that mode. If one wants lowest RPM to save fuel, then don't.

I haven't driven the newer SPT tranny, but I would imagine it's much like the HTCVT in S# mode.

[mcarb002]

Cvt just shouldn’t be the choice in a “halo” car. Specially when you’re charging up to 50k for these cars.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Yeah, I get that, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea... The theoretical benefit of a CVT is being able to push the engine to it's peak output and keep it there without shifts. Pretty sure this was born out with earlier versions of the CVT WRX in that staying in auto mode was always faster than any "gear switching" mode.

It's hard to describe. It just does it quite good. The "changes" aren't really a whole lot. How much power is now it's biggest issue. With MPG maybe a 2nd.

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Controversial opinion, the SPT in sport sharp is actually a pleasing experience, Yeah its no Evo MR - could be quicker, but it does a good job of running the rpms like that of a geared trans. For how long? Still finding out, we'll see once a 22' SPT has like 90-120k miles on it. I don't think the SPT was made with mileage in mind, as my buddy says his wife gets a little under 20mpgs around town. Though I still stand by them exploring a 7/8EAT.

Need more info.

What mode
How hard does she drive
Terrain
Is that calculated or are they looking at the car's computer?

[RobM]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Cvt just shouldn’t be the choice in a “halo” car. Specially when you’re charging up to 50k for these cars.

It can be had for as little as $39000 with the SPT. Why do you hate choice?

Are there other new 270 HP AWD sedans with a non MT tranny at $39000 to compare it against?

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by RobM

It can be had for as little as $39000 with the SPT. Why do you hate choice?

Are there other new 270 HP AWD sedans with a non MT tranny at $39000 to compare it against?

What a weird way to interpret what I said as “I hate choice”..no, I dislike the available option.

If Mitsubishi had dual clutch eleventy billion years ago, so can Subaru. $39K is what a limited STI use to cost like 4 years ago. Yes, the Elantra N has a DCT lol and can be had for as little as $37k…your move bub…

[SVX WRX]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

What a weird way to interpret what I said as “I hate choice”..no, I dislike the available option.

If Mitsubishi had dual clutch eleventy billion years ago, so can Subaru. $39K is what a limited STI use to cost like 4 years ago. Yes, the Elantra N has a DCT lol and can be had for as little as $37k…your move bub…

i would not choose a Hyundai vehicle with a DCT. i've been interested in a Hyundai Santa Cruz to replace my wife's car, but the top trims were DCT only until this year ... replaced by a traditional 8 speed auto. apparently even Hyundai got tired of dealing with the problems. supposedly lots of issues with the DCT, and even if not, some low speed weirdness with them.

glad i can finally consider a 2026+ one. her car is 10 years old but only has 21k miles. i'd be a moron for getting something new, but we're just kinda bored with it i'll probably hang on to it for another couple years

[Brahmzy]

Only on NASIOC is the CVT being defended and promoted. Holy garbage think.

You know who you are, and you should feel bad.

[KC]

Originally Posted by SVX WRX

i would not choose a Hyundai vehicle with a DCT. i've been interested in a Hyundai Santa Cruz to replace my wife's car, but the top trims were DCT only until this year ... replaced by a traditional 8 speed auto. apparently even Hyundai got tired of dealing with the problems. supposedly lots of issues with the DCT, and even if not, some low speed weirdness with them.

glad i can finally consider a 2026+ one. her car is 10 years old but only has 21k miles. i'd be a moron for getting something new, but we're just kinda bored with it i'll probably hang on to it for another couple years

Many DCTs are actually quite decent. Issue is Hyundai rolls their own and needs a bit more maturity.

[RobM]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

What a weird an obvious way to interpret what I said as “I hate choice”..no, I dislike the available option.

If Mitsubishi had dual clutch eleventy billion years ago, so can Subaru. $39K is what a limited STI use to cost like 4 years ago. Yes, the Elantra N has a DCT lol and can be had for as little as $37k…your move bub…

You forgot to mention that the Elantra N is FWD.

Be better.

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Only on NASIOC is the CVT being defended and promoted. Holy garbage think.

You know who you are, and you should feel bad.

Actually, only on NASIOC is the CVT hated with such vitriol. Every single review I've seen of Subaru's CVT state that it's better than [insert other manufacturer here] and does fine. Obviously they have their preference for the manual, but no one has ever acted like Subaru's CVT was hot garbage besides NASIOC.

I liked Subaru's early implementation of the CVT on the 2012 Impreza. After that I didn't care for their tuning (based on customer feedback) until recent years. Still, in my 2017 Impreza it's fine, and I think having a dip of 5 years from my liking it to my being fine with it is a fairly short lifecycle of inadequate transmission tuning. It's worlds better than the 4EAT, and I prefer it over Subaru's 5-speed manual (or 5-speed + 1 gear).

And I don't know why we're comparing FWD models. That conversation should've died decades ago.

[KC]

Subaru makes a CVT better than any other Car manufacturer's CVT. True.

MT > AT (i.e. many ZF/Aisin) > CVT. Also true.

CVT as a whole? Junk.

[WRX4US]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Only on NASIOC is the CVT being defended and promoted. Holy garbage think.

You know who you are, and you should feel bad.

As they are now; they are disappointing.

...However I think there might be future potential.

[b4wantab]

Honda's chain based CVT is better than Subarus. Honda also decides where and when to apply it, they do not do one-size fits all. So it is paired better to the application.

I am not aware of any aftermarket vendors liking the chain-based/mechanical CVT. Any journalists come back after living with the SPT for 3-4 years and write a review?

Peace,

Greg

[Russ_G93]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

It's hard to describe. It just does it quite good. The "changes" aren't really a whole lot. How much power is now it's biggest issue. With MPG maybe a 2nd.

Need more info.

What mode
How hard does she drive
Terrain
Is that calculated or are they looking at the car's computer?

He says she doesn't mess with modes. And our little town has a lot of hills. Just from going up the hill towards the lakes you're ascending 2000-4000 ft elevation (30-40min away). Random lights on the highway/overpass. Idk how hard she drives. I get about 21-22 all together, but im pretty conservative taking off from stops. We're at 1900 ft in town. He's probably quoting resetting the trip every fill or something. Ill tell you what though, that programming sure likes to Shift quite a bit. Think it would have been better to set at 7 programmed rpm manipulations, because the car doesn't like to let the rpms go too far before switching to the next "Chain stretch" unless romping on it. He did say when they first got the car, they were getting closer to 16-18 around town, no leaks, no running too rich or anything.

[RobM]

Originally Posted by KC

CVT as a whole? Junk.

KC’s opinion? Junk.